SWA wants to fly from HOU to MEX and SouthAmerica

[fam62c]

Forgot to answer your question. The reason is, ultimately, you have no problem flying out of IAH. In fact, you probably plan to. It's like Chase readily admits on page 1 of this thread. SWA is going to end up going to DFW. Even with all the decades of WA drama and consternation, SWA will end up going to DFW. Houston doesn't have to wonder what your plan is. You intend to skirmish from a safe distance with the IAH carriers, assail IAH as ridiculously expensive, and ultimately wreck the airport financially and contribute to the bankruptsy of the predominant carrier. Then move in when you can get the whole thing for cents on the dollar.

I think that you are being a tad over-dramatic. SW can only do so much with 737's, UCAL has a lot more reach, seats and airplanes of all types. SW will probably make the total market bigger rather than stealing a lot of business from UCAL. CAL has done very well competing against SW in Houston for a long time. The 737 has been a key to the success of SW but it also serves as a constraint for SW.

 

[dicko]

Forgot to answer your question. The reason is, ultimately, you have no problem flying out of IAH. In fact, you probably plan to. It's like Chase readily admits on page 1 of this thread. SWA is going to end up going to DFW. Even with all the decades of WA drama and consternation, SWA will end up going to DFW. Houston doesn't have to wonder what your plan is. You intend to skirmish from a safe distance with the IAH carriers, assail IAH as ridiculously expensive, and ultimately wreck the airport financially and contribute to the bankruptsy of the predominant carrier. Then move in when you can get the whole thing for cents on the dollar.

You're expecting an airline to support a specific airport based on the premise that the airport will go broke if it doesn't ? The fact that competing airlines are squealing so loudly about SWA's plan proves that it's a great idea for SWA.

Here's what the Mayor of Houston thinks about United and there service from IAH:

"Mayor Parker on Saturday tweeted: "Just landed from spring break trip with girls. 1.5 hours late leaving Houston and 8 hours late coming back from SF. Great merger, United!" March 20 2012


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2012/03/20/state/n085821D52.DTL

 

[Double Shot]

Hey Flop,

The new terminal at Hobby already has the ability to handle customs and immigration. They already had that planned when they built the facility. At this point its not about if but when we are allowed to start. And it will happen dispight your whining.

 

[texman]

So the question is, how far south can a 737-700-800 go from HOU? What's realistic?

 

[Bill Nelson]

Point to point along a multi-country route is not cabotage. The 737 can go anywhere south that has O&D traffic and steady demand.

 

[humveedriver]

So the question is, how far south can a 737-700-800 go from HOU? What's realistic?

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/737family/pf/pf_rc_newyork.html

Gives you an idea at least.

-700 @ 3400 NM
-800 @ 3100 NM

HOU to Rio is about 5,000 NM and 11 hours of flying. Aruba is AirTrans most southern destination. 2300 NM from HOU. North coast of S. America would be no problem. Further inland the high terrain I think becomes 757/787 territory.

 

[texman]

Hum, thx. I still think we will see a bigger airplane. Plus wouldn't MCO be a better launching point?

 

[humveedriver]

Bigger and higher performance plane. The -800 is bigger, but has less range. The extra seats make it more viable on longer flights, but at some point, you run out of airplane. HOU will kick butt going to Mexico, both for traffic and geography. Heading down to S. America, it's south and east so MCO has the edge there.

 

[waveflyer]

Hum, thx. I still think we will see a bigger airplane. Plus wouldn't MCO be a better launching point?

Its a good point that most of S America is east of miami- but i think HOU would provide more O&D traffic- and only etops airplanes can do the straight shot from florida to north coast of SA due to distance between the DR/Haiti and Aruba-
(just eyeballing it- correct me if I'm wrong) whereas HOU routes are close to land all the way south from that angle.

 

[humveedriver]

The geography/geometry is hard to eyeball. I still look at the Latin 7/8 chart to gain better understanding of whats where. Essentially you can go anywhere in the gulf, down the Caribbean island chain, to include overflying Cuba all day long with out ETOPs. You just need rafts. That buys us a 405 NM limit. But then you also need VHF radio coverage. Which you do in the Gulf with some floating transmitters out there and of course the various islands. When we decided to go to Bermuda, that opened up the ETOPs question, but it was determined we could still go there using rafts and HF radio (sat back up). That also opened the door to using WATRS routing between PR and BWI.

 

[rajflyboy]

Southwest

The best airline ever in existence on earth!!

You guys are true GODS of the airline industry.

 

[Scoot 11]

In one post you mention smaller footprint, and the next you try to justify the crap out of your mouth. Your an idiot.

Deleted...I see he apologized.
Well done.

 

[SKC]

Its a good point that most of S America is east of miami- but i think HOU would provide more O&D traffic- and only etops airplanes can do the straight shot from florida to north coast of SA due to distance between the DR/Haiti and Aruba-
(just eyeballing it- correct me if I'm wrong) whereas HOU routes are close to land all the way south from that angle.

Wave we could/can operate throughout the entire Carrib/Mex/northern S. Am without ETOPS. Even after passing Dom Rep, you always have the VI, Antigua, Ft de France, Curacao, Margarita, etc, so you're rarely more than a couple hundred miles from an alternate.

 

[SKC]

Southwest

The best airline ever in existence on earth!!

You guys are true GODS of the airline industry.

It's about time you finally got on board.

 

[rajflyboy]

It's about time you finally got on board.

No doubt!

You guys are the greatest!

 

[dicko]

The geography/geometry is hard to eyeball. I still look at the Latin 7/8 chart to gain better understanding of whats where. Essentially you can go anywhere in the gulf, down the Caribbean island chain, to include overflying Cuba all day long with out ETOPs. You just need rafts. That buys us a 405 NM limit. But then you also need VHF radio coverage. Which you do in the Gulf with some floating transmitters out there and of course the various islands. When we decided to go to Bermuda, that opened up the ETOPs question, but it was determined we could still go there using rafts and HF radio (sat back up). That also opened the door to using WATRS routing between PR and BWI.

A good summary. Houston to Lima Peru (LIM) is a great circle distance of 2700 NM. That's 6:45 hours at 400kts (GS).

If you're bored here's a Great circle mapper that you can plug in routes or ETOPS requirements etc.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=hou-lim&R=9380nm@LHR&MS=wls&DU=nm&SG=400&SU=kts

 

[waveflyer]

Cool, I see.
So is etops only for Hawaii?

 

[SKC]

Cool, I see.
So is etops only for Hawaii?

For us, yes. That is until we begin European ops in 10 years. Aside from HI, we won't be operating anywhere that would be further than 60 mins from an alternate.

 

[humveedriver]

This is a decent ETOPs breakdown;

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/faqs/etopseropsenroutealt.pdf

Couple of other things;

1. 60 minutes=405nm
2. 2 hour reserve rule or "island rule": is how we dispatch to BDA. If there is no suitable alternate (because destination is a remote island), you must carry two hours of reserve fuel. No hold or extra percentage required. Most carriers use a mainland alternate if the wx is remotely sketchy.

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

United's Message to employees re: Hobby Int'l

You may have seen news reports about Southwest's (WN) proposal to begin international flights out of HOU (Houston's Hobby Airport). United is opposed to this plan and we will be reaching out to Houston co-workers to help us send that message to Mayor Annise Parker and the City Council. The proposal would negatively impact our IAH hub operation and result in less international flying by all carriers out of IAH, hurting the city of Houston.
One of the reasons that Houston's economy is so strong is the connecting air passenger traffic that powers IAH, filling planes to destinations around the world on flights that the city's local traffic alone couldn't support. Those flights create jobs. A second international airport would dilute IAH's international traffic, stretch scarce federal customs resources and make Houston an unattractive destination for passengers and a more costly one for carriers. We welcome new international flights at IAH, where the international gates and existing customs facility can easily accommodate more flights.
Congressmen Kevin Brady and Al Green wrote a letter to Mayor Parker opposing the idea of a second international airport in Houston, saying, "Doing so will ultimately reduce the benefits of Houston's prior strategic investments in both airports and turn this into a competition with itself for customers and limited federal resources." The congressmen also pointed out that IAH drove the equivalent of 172,000 full-time jobs in 2010.