SWA wants to fly from HOU to MEX and SouthAmerica

[texman]

Dude, here's the real question- why would swa be forced to operate up in IAH? Why would they not have the right to fly international out of hobby?
And why isn't the reverse argument true? Why isn't continental down in hobby competing?

True and this is starting to look a lot like the wright amendment all over again. This time it won't happen. It is time to take SWA customers international. Get a domestic feed then do international. It just wont happen out of IAH. Sorry guys but this how we feed (HOU), not out of IAH. I say let CAL/UA do it to out of HOU and see how it works out. I bet it won't. CAL/UA has the feed only out of IAH. Period.

It's all good.

 

[SKC]

Flop's hatred of everything SWA clouds his ability to make a rational argument.

He thinks that just because Unitental is older and has been established in Houston longer than SWA, that everyone should bow down to them. He believes that competition under any terms but his own is wrong.

 

[FlyinGuy]

They used to fly there and we [CAL] beat them in a straight up showdown. And it even took place when SWA had a better fuel hedging position. Afraid to compete? I'm pretty sure we can kick their butt again.

OK brainiac, please tell me about that SWA operation out of IAH. How many places did you compete? How many cities were part of this huge operation that CAL supposedly defeated?


Yep....it was IAH to DAL about 6 times a day!!! Why was it closed? Because it was no longer cost effective to operate only a few flights out of that station.

 

[Flopgut]

Dude, here's the real question- why would swa be forced to operate up in IAH? Why would they not have the right to fly international out of hobby?
And why isn't the reverse argument true? Why isn't continental down in hobby competing?

You should be forced to go to IAH because we've been down this road with you on the WA and Love Field. You wouldn't go to DFW because you said you didn't sign the agreement and you didn't/couldn't pay for the airport. This time, you're not a start-up and you've already had ops at IAH. You need to pay to play bud.

The reverse arguement is not true because we have been down at Hobby, and I think/hope we will go there again if need be. You and Flyinguy need to remember why you left IAH. SWA went after CAL's CLE operation because you thought there was blood in the water and we would give it up. We launched MD80s from CLE to Hobby at 30 min intervals and you lost your appetite for a fight real quick. We didn't let up til you agreed to leave IAH. You sneak this deal through and I hope we go back to Hobby. But really, we shouldn't need to. Having had this sort of fight once recently, it's clear you're just trying to pull a stunt because you can't get a foothold otherwise. However, something tells me GK has a plan for that. He's going to find a way to make sure you don't have any competition at Hobby.

Look, maybe I don't like SWA, but forgive me if I have a little pride in the few good things my airline has done. You guys don't hesitate a bit to wave your flag. What's wrong with some of us legacy guys showing some espirit de corp?

 

[outerlimits]

You should be forced to go to IAH because we've been down this road with you on the WA and Love Field. You wouldn't go to DFW because you said you didn't sign the agreement and you didn't/couldn't pay for the airport. This time, you're not a start-up and you've already had ops at IAH. You need to pay to play bud.

Do you really believe what you type?

No company should be forced to be run a certain way.

Why not say oil company's need to give a free car after 10,000 gal. of gas purchase .


UAL has nothing to worry About with SWA.Just offer a better product at a better price and there is no way Southwest can compete

 

[waveflyer]

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth flop. Have all the esprit you want- but that's not what you're doing- your company is trying to set up the next special rule to keep southwest in check- and you've bought into that- It's stupid, and protectionist- IAH was built so the city could have concrete to handle widebodies- continental has widebodies and needs that space- continental needs the domestic feed up at IAH to fill the widebodies, so it doesn't fly domestically out of Hobby where most of Houston would rather fly out of. Abandoned Hobby, the established, domestic airport in Houston, long before IAH
DUDE, WE DON'T HAVE WIDEBODIES. We don't need your Goliath airport and the delays that come with the hub and spoke you implement to fill your double-aisles.
IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT CONTINENTAL IN HOUSTON-
If we ever need 10,000' runways in Houston we'll talk about IAH- but in the meantime, your company is the one that needs them, the one that wants them-
It's continental's business plan that requires IAH, not SWAs. You're asking us to subsidize your facilities. That's crazy.
No way you win this stupid battle.
How about this- you do continental and all that hub and spoke out of IAH, and we'll do our point to point out of Hobby and let the consumer decide what they want.....?
Sound good?

 

[FlyinGuy]

You and Flyinguy need to remember why you left IAH. SWA went after CAL's CLE operation because you thought there was blood in the water and we would give it up. We launched MD80s from CLE to Hobby at 30 min intervals and you lost your appetite for a fight real quick. We didn't let up til you agreed to leave IAH.

Get your facts straight. SWA left the IAH-DAL market because it became too expensive and they wanted to increase their presence at Hobby.

 

[SKC]

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth flop. Have all the esprit you want- but that's not what you're doing- your company is trying to set up the next special rule to keep southwest in check- and you've bought into that- It's stupid, and protectionist- IAH was built so the city could have concrete to handle widebodies- continental has widebodies and needs that space- continental needs the domestic feed up at IAH to fill the widebodies, so it doesn't fly domestically out of Hobby where most of Houston would rather fly out of. Abandoned Hobby, the established, domestic airport in Houston, long before IAH
DUDE, WE DON'T HAVE WIDEBODIES. We don't need your Goliath airport and the delays that come with the hub and spoke you implement to fill your double-aisles.
IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT CONTINENTAL IN HOUSTON-
If we ever need 10,000' runways in Houston we'll talk about IAH- but in the meantime, your company is the one that needs them, the one that wants them-
It's continental's business plan that requires IAH, not SWAs. You're asking us to subsidize your facilities. That's crazy.
No way you win this stupid battle.
How about this- you do continental and all that hub and spoke out of IAH, and we'll do our point to point out of Hobby and let the consumer decide what they want.....?
Sound good?

All great points, Wave. Suppose Flop can take his hands out of his ears long enough to let it sink in?

 

[Flopgut]

Get your facts straight. SWA left the IAH-DAL market because it became too expensive and they wanted to increase their presence at Hobby.

You are completely wrong... We beat your a$$ bud...

 

[Flopgut]

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth flop. Have all the esprit you want- but that's not what you're doing- your company is trying to set up the next special rule to keep southwest in check- and you've bought into that- It's stupid, and protectionist- IAH was built so the city could have concrete to handle widebodies- continental has widebodies and needs that space- continental needs the domestic feed up at IAH to fill the widebodies, so it doesn't fly domestically out of Hobby where most of Houston would rather fly out of. Abandoned Hobby, the established, domestic airport in Houston, long before IAH
DUDE, WE DON'T HAVE WIDEBODIES. We don't need your Goliath airport and the delays that come with the hub and spoke you implement to fill your double-aisles.
IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT CONTINENTAL IN HOUSTON-
If we ever need 10,000' runways in Houston we'll talk about IAH- but in the meantime, your company is the one that needs them, the one that wants them-
It's continental's business plan that requires IAH, not SWAs. You're asking us to subsidize your facilities. That's crazy.

IAH has no delays to speak of. CAL does not taxi around real slow like AA. You know so little about big airplane ops (runway length) and etops it's incredible you get a fluf off the ground.

We don't require IAH, so much as we need our competition to be predictable. We could do this out of Hobby. We DID this out of Hobby. You got your butts kicked. What's your problem?

 

[waveflyer]

You need your "competition to be predictable", eh? Seriously?

I'm sorry we aren't accommodating that need for you.

Anybody else see the problem with that?

What I'm trying to figure out is why we need permission to fly internationally out of hobby in the first place

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

You need your "competition to be predictable", eh? Seriously?

I'm sorry we aren't accommodating that need for you.

Anybody else see the problem with that?

What I'm trying to figure out is why we need permission to fly internationally out of hobby in the first place

Talk about speaking out of the both sides of your mouth. Let Obama win and the gubment wil decide what's fair for WN, you and WN mgmt will be at his mercy deciding what's a fair to charge for those routes.

Just when you started to sound like you were squared away, you go off Tue deep end. Keep in mind this is bigger than our piddling careers.

 

[waveflyer]

Source luv? Or did you just make that up?
(you did, by the way)
Stay on topic here- you can rip into me and Herb Kelleher's and warren buffett's economic and political philosophies all day on Non-Av- but those guys are my role models and I do my best to emulate them- which isn't close, but I try.

 

[FlyinGuy]

You are completely wrong... We beat your a$$ bud...

What ever you say. You were destroying us on those 6 IAH-DAL runs. You guys are awesome, you are the best major airline ever. We cannot compete with such a superior managed airline so we should just shut this whole thing down now!!!

Did I mention that you guys continue to file for bankruptcy? oops.....

 

[outerlimits]

What ever you say. You were destroying us on those 6 IAH-DAL runs. You guys are awesome, you are the best major airline ever. We cannot compete with such a superior managed airline so we should just shut this whole thing down now!!!

Did I mention that you guys continue to file for bankruptcy? oops.....

Code share bro, code share.


CAL did not fly it.

I love outsourcing

 

[Bake]

Well, I have only been at SWA for 10 years so I can't speak before that, but the only place we went from IAH was to LUV. Never CLE. All I ever flew into there was 200's from Luv

 

[FlyinGuy]

Stop telling him the facts. He will call you a liar and spout off something irrelevant.

 

[iflyhigh72]

Southwest Plan Advances for Flights Abroad at Hobby



Southwest Airlines Co. (LUV) (LUV) won backing from Houstons aviation director to add international flights at the citys secondary airport after larger competitor United Continental Holdings Inc. (UAL) (UAL) objected.
The proposal to expand at William P. Hobby Airport would add 1.5 million passengers a year, 10,000 jobs and an annual economic benefit of $1.6 billion for the metropolitan area, according to a memo today to Mayor Annise Parker from Mario Diaz, director of aviation for the Houston Airport System.
George Bush Intercontinental Airport is Houstons main overseas gateway and the biggest hub for United, which along with its regional partners controls about 80 percent of passenger traffic there, while Southwest has about 90 percent of traffic at Hobby, where flights are chiefly domestic.
Parker will review Diazs analysis before deciding whether to accept the recommendation, which also needs approval from the City Council and U.S. regulators, the airport system said on its website. United asked the mayor last week to defer any decision on Southwests request pending further study.
Southwest proposed spending as much as $100 million for a five-gate terminal with customs facilities, breaking with a history of U.S.-only flying. New Hobby flights would include Mexico, the Caribbean and elsewhere in Latin America as Dallas- based Southwest absorbs the 2011 purchase of AirTran Holdings Inc. (AAI) (AAI), which already serves some of those destinations.
Fundamentally Flawed

The assumptions in the city of Houstons analysis are fundamentally flawed, Christen David, a spokeswoman for Chicago-based United, said today in an e-mail. Uniteds own, unfinished assessment shows that Southwests plan would significantly harm Intercontinental, David said.
United Chief Executive Officer Jeff Smisek, who ran Houston-based Continental Airlines before its 2010 merger with United, wrote to Parker to request the delay and told employees that the airlines Houston hub would suffer serious injury.
Hobbys expansion would imperil the airlines $700 million investment at its Intercontinental hub and could result in 1,300 United job cuts in Houston, Smisek wrote in an April 4 memo.
I didnt expect United to agree with it, Bob Montgomery, Southwests vice president for properties, said in an interview. Thats why the city did an independent study. I expect whatever study is done by whoever, it will find objection from United. They enjoy a near monopoly in that marketplace and I believe they want to keep that monopoly.
New flights could start in mid- to late 2015, he said.
Intercontinental is about 30 miles (48 kilometers) from Hobby and is closer to some of the newer business and residential developments on Houstons northern and western fringes. Hobby airport is in the citys southeastern quadrant.
While Intercontinental has been home for decades to most of the regions international flights, overseas flying isnt banned at Hobby, and both Southwest and Continental expressed interest in adding such flights there as recently as 2003, Diaz said on a conference call with reporters.
Two airlines in Mexico have also expressed interest in a new international terminal at Hobby, Diaz said.
To contact the reporter on this story: Mary Jane Credeur in Atlanta at [email protected]
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Ed Dufner at [email protected]

 

[Flopgut]

Well, I have only been at SWA for 10 years so I can't speak before that, but the only place we went from IAH was to LUV. Never CLE. All I ever flew into there was 200's from Luv

You guys just don't remember this stuff.

SWA went after CAL with flights from Hobby (and maybe a few other places) to CLE, and CAL went right back at you with flights to Hobby from CLE. Yes, the only place you flew to out of IAH was LUV. When we had to defend CLE went went to Hobby. You backed down and as part of the agreement we back down, you left IAH.

 

[Flopgut]

You need your "competition to be predictable", eh? Seriously?

Yeah, there should be some rules we all have to stick to. There should be a level playing field and an equal market. 99% of the time you've won on a level playing field. But when it's been in doubt (like now and when you were a startup) SWA has sought an airport deal that favors them.

The city knows this is a bad deal for IAH. They just want to retialiate for UAL hdqts being moved. They are going to cut their nose off to spite thier face. GK is doing what you guys always do, show up where the vultures are/or there is blood in the water

I'm hoping we go to Hobby and we slug this out.