SWA today like the airline in the book, "Nuts!"?

[737tanker]

The first agreement was an insult and it was rightfully rejected by the MEC.

Explain to me what was insulting about an agreement where any AirTran Captains that lost their seats due to a reduction in total Captains had the 1st choice to them for upgrade, something that Southwest pilots wouldn't have. Also how was it insulting that in the event of a furlough it would have been done out of seniority order. I guess the final insult was that AirTran pilots got Southwest pay while still flying at AirTran. If all that was insulting just what did you need to get so that you wouldn't be insulted?

 

[PCL_128]

How 'bout not losing 32% of their seniority?

 

[redflyer65]

32% from their AirTran seniority?

You were absorbed by a carrier 5 times larger. Your expectations were a little off.

 

[Ty Webb]

Explain to me what was insulting about an agreement where any AirTran Captains that lost their seats due to a reduction in total Captains had the 1st choice to them for upgrade, something that Southwest pilots wouldn't have. Also how was it insulting that in the event of a furlough it would have been done out of seniority order. I guess the final insult was that AirTran pilots got Southwest pay while still flying at AirTran. If all that was insulting just what did you need to get so that you wouldn't be insulted?

The SLI was the insulting part, but the loose language ensured ample latitude to steal our seats, just as they have done now.

At best, we would have been itinerant gypsy captains, bouncing between the left and right seats, and reserve in OAK and LAS, for the next decade. . . . Much like the current group of SWA upgrades will be after 2015.

 

[Ty Webb]

32% from their AirTran seniority?

You were absorbed by a carrier 5 times larger. Your expectations were a little off.

Red, unfortunately, when you and Wave get your comeuppance, the rest off us will be along for the ride.

 

[waveflyer]

I actually have no problem being civil towards 99% of the SWA pilots. Hell, I'd happily buy a beer for the guys on the SWAPA MC. I have no animosity there. It's just the handful of guys who can't help but be completely arrogant a-holes. Guys like waveflyer and canyonblue. They deserve nothing but derision. As best I can remember, you've never behaved like them, so we're cool.

Im shaking from all the derision, pcl


you got a huge shortcut, just too greedy to realize it.

 

[intooclose]

The forgotten group in all this are the FOs. I would have traded spots with you Ty. We worked for a long time with wages and work rules far below industry average. Many of the complainers were people with no children, families they don't give a s#$t about, or one with a working spouse. Or, furloughed from somewhere with a back up plan. Many FOs are the lone income in a family with young children. I just thought a union was suppose to look at the big picture and consider all of the members. My bad. Give it a F@#king rest people. Airtran wasn't horrible but it wasn't great. I mean damn.

 

[Ty Webb]

The forgotten group in all this are the FOs. I would have traded spots with you Ty. We worked for a long time with wages and work rules far below industry average. Many of the complainers were people with no children, families they don't give a s#$t about, or one with a working spouse. Or, furloughed from somewhere with a back up plan. Many FOs are the lone income in a family with young children. I just thought a union was suppose to look at the big picture and consider all of the members. My bad. Give it a F@#king rest people. Airtran wasn't horrible but it wasn't great. I mean damn.

You seem to forget that the "senior guys" were in the same position, or perhaps worse off, then you . . . . When I was a newhire, my daughter was 13 months old, it was just after 9/11 and our rate of pay that year was $35.50/hr.

During the last Contract fight, most Captains advocated the bulk of the improvements in compensation go to the FO's . . . that's why the FO rates went up by such a large percentage; almost twice as much as the CA rates. Same with the bonus money.

 

[intooclose]

Oh....OK. Thanks Dad. My bad. I also forgot how great the Sleep Inn in BWI was or the "Quality Inn " in DFW. Those were the days.

 

[Toecutter]

The forgotten group in all this are the FOs. I would have traded spots with you Ty. We worked for a long time with wages and work rules far below industry average. Many of the complainers were people with no children, families they don't give a s#$t about, or one with a working spouse. Or, furloughed from somewhere with a back up plan. Many FOs are the lone income in a family with young children. I just thought a union was suppose to look at the big picture and consider all of the members. My bad. Give it a F@#king rest people. Airtran wasn't horrible but it wasn't great. I mean damn.

Man, you sure hit the nail right on the head.

 

[Ty Webb]

Oh....OK. Thanks Dad. My bad. I also forgot how great the Sleep Inn in BWI was or the "Quality Inn " in DFW. Those were the days.

"Dad" huh? Well, you're the one who wants to play the "broke FO with kids" card. What did you expect?


Btw, you'll find a few craphole hotels in the SWA system, too. Enjoy!

 

[madjack]

Ty, steal what seats??? The Dc9s are leaving...

 

[madjack]

Not sure how we are going to absorb 1000 planeless pilots...

 

[Ty Webb]

Not sure how we are going to absorb 1000 planeless pilots...

Don't fret, MJ. SWA will be using our orders and options to get more 700's.

If you're really worried about, though, you can give my seat back. It looks better on me, anyway.

 

[madjack]

I know you wanted DOH-Rel Sen, "your seat" and our contract...I think that crappy hotel argument would have worked for ya...

 

[humveedriver]

Sleep Inn was by The Rose. Loved that bar. The crappier the hotel the cooler the dive bars. Fancy hotels mean pricier drinks and better work out rooms. It's sort of a ying and yang thing.

Disclaimer- The Rose used to be cool. It got remodelled. Such is life.

 

[madjack]

I know you wanted DOH-Rel Sen, "your seat" and our contract...I think that crappy hotel argument would have worked for ya...50 737 orders ain't gonna cut it...more like 100

Ty, I understand you wanting to f over the SWA pilots, all is fair in negotiations, what I don't get is why you so strongly support taking money out of the pockets of your fellow AAI pilots, ego is an amazing drag on common sense...

 

[madjack]

Sorry for the repeat...

 

[intooclose]

"Dad" huh? Well, you're the one who wants to play the "broke FO with kids" card. What did you expect?


Btw, you'll find a few craphole hotels in the SWA system, too. Enjoy!

Way to redirect and make a comment to a statement I never made. I was not a broke FO. Never said I was Try. Let me break it down for you. The people spoke about had a much higher tolerance for risk than myself and most other FOs. I didn't even say the deal was good or bad. It was irrelevant. It was different for each person depending on their situation. We all should have voted. If it went down or went to arbitration, so be it. It takes a brain to evaluate something and yes, that's OK. It takes zero brain power to say NO and fall back on emotional arguments like calling someone a "Surrender Monkey". That's what happened. There is no such thing in life as fair. It is what it is, what you earn, what you negotiate, and sometimes luck. I thought most of us knew that by now.

Ps. Quit sending me PMs, it makes me think you have no life.

 

[Ty Webb]

Way to redirect and make a comment to a statement I never made. I was not a broke FO. Never said I was Try. Let me break it down for you. The people spoke about had a much higher tolerance for risk than myself and most other FOs. I didn't even say the deal was good or bad. It was irrelevant. It was different for each person depending on their situation. We all should have voted. If it went down or went to arbitration, so be it. It takes a brain to evaluate something and yes, that's OK. It takes zero brain power to say NO and fall back on emotional arguments like calling someone a "Surrender Monkey". That's what happened. There is no such thing in life as fair. It is what it is, what you earn, what you negotiate, and sometimes luck. I thought most of us knew that by now.

Ps. Quit sending me PMs, it makes me think you have no life.

I haven't sent you a PM, ever . . . . Have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Ty Webb]

I know you wanted DOH-Rel Sen, "your seat" and our contract...I think that crappy hotel argument would have worked for ya...50 737 orders ain't gonna cut it...more like 100

Ty, I understand you wanting to f over the SWA pilots, all is fair in negotiations, what I don't get is why you so strongly support taking money out of the pockets of your fellow AAI pilots, ego is an amazing drag on common sense...

Uh, Oh. . . . Every one stand back, Wacky Jack's off his meds again. :nuts:

I don't want to "F over" anyone, SWA or otherwise. Don't just make up crap, you tiller-yanking, seat-stealing HUD cripple.

:laugh:


,

 

[madjack]

That is funny right there...

 

[scoreboardII]

Why are we disparaging HUDs?

 

[400ADude]

Why are we disparaging HUDs?

When you have nothing left to disparage or having a weak argument you end up like that. Angry, despondent and excuse filled.

 

[madjack]

HUDS is a 4 letter word...we r lucky to have the AAI folks, they have all been great...

 

[humveedriver]

HUDS is a 4 letter word...we r lucky to have the AAI folks, they have all been great...

The HUD is pretty cool. I like how when you spot the tops of a cumulus clouds or a thunder storm, the Captain lowers the HUD like a periscope and surveys the target. It's very Das Boot.

 

[scoreboardII]

get an app called cloud topper, you can best them by telling them exactly how hi or low the clouds are, with radar range.

 

[Ty Webb]

When you have nothing left to disparage or having a weak argument you end up like that. Angry, despondent and excuse filled.

Actually, that was meant as a joke. MJ got it.

I haven't used the HUD, so I really don't have an opinion on it. Autoland has wind limitations, don't know about HUDS.

I'm certainly not angry or despondent, far from it. This has been a great year for me, I've been enjoying it.... it's my thirteenth year here, and likely last year as an AirTran skipper, so I'm enjoying it for what it is. I'll worry about 2015 when it gets here... As much as things have been changing wrt to transition, why worry about it now? I do feel for the senior FOs here who are stuck while watching junior FOs transition ahead of them, tho.

 

[maxblast72]

The same S/T who wasn't even allowed by the MEC to go to the Dallas meeting?

You aren't exactly using good sources, here. But that's typical of you.

Furthermore, I don't know if these emails have even been submitted as exhibits in the depositions.

Ok, you didn't like or trust the MEC Secretary/Treasurer. I will give you a quote from our former Communications Chair who I know you think is a smart guy (who later became the ATN MEC Chair). The email I am quoting is in response to the August 1, 2011 LEC blast that you ghost wrote for the LEC Chair. This email was part of Plaintiffs Exhibit #12 introduced during the Merger Committee Chair's deposition:

"Okay.. since we haven’t gotten a response, I’ll go ahead and try to help.

Bxxxxxx (ATN Contract Administrator) doesn’t approve LEC messages, so technically, he didn’t approve this one either. Did he, however, say you should remove the quote. Yes or no? If yes, why?

This isn’t a question as to whether you [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]believe [/FONT][/FONT]or [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]feel [/FONT][/FONT]or [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]think [/FONT][/FONT]that Kelly is bluffing. This is a question of whether you are willing to bend the facts Kelly’s full statement) to support that belief, and whether you’re willing to mislead the pilot group by postulating your [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]belief, feeling or thought [/FONT][/FONT]as fact. That is essentially what you have done.

To put it more plainly, it is one thing to say that you [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]believe [/FONT][/FONT]that Kelly was bluffing during the meeting ; it is another to deny the bluff happened altogether, and to bend Kelly’s words to support that statement.

Furthermore, as we all know, Gary Kelly repeated dozens of times in front of dozens of people that all bets are off in arbitration. You may recall that at 09:56am Gary Kelly said, "I don’t have to integrate these carriers." I remember that moment vividly because it is when you chose to stand behind your chair. You didn’t share that with the pilots; in fact, you told them in blanket fashion that no such statements were made at all. Some day they may wonder why.

Finally, in the interest of full disclosure, Anthony did try calling me immediately after I sent my last message. I did not answer the phone because I believe everyone needs to be a part of this conversation"

 

[PCL_128]

Ok, you didn't like or trust the MEC Secretary/Treasurer.

Actually, I both like and trust him. I just don't believe he was in any position to be making such a determination, since the emails and phone calls weren't going to him, they were going to the reps.

I will give you a quote from our former Communications Chair who I know you think is a smart guy (who later became the ATN MEC Chair)

Yep, he's a very smart guy. He has no bargaining experience, though (just like you), so he was in no position to be determining what was a threat and what was posturing. His email focuses upon the key dispute during that time: were there real threats, or weren't there? He believes there were, and "slick," as someone called him earlier, still doesn't believe that there were. That doesn't make it a lie. It makes it a difference of opinion. Personally, I agree with "slick." But I have actual bargaining experience, so what do I know.