SWA today like the airline in the book, "Nuts!"?

[Cosmo007]

Back on track. SWA is not the same as ten years ago but there is still some of the spirit there. Just a few months ago, a SWA pilot's teenage son was killed in an auto accident. The pilot was on an east coast overnight and it was too late to get home on any carrier. The chief pilot on duty got dispatch to divert a charter repo to the overnight city to pick up the pilot and RTB him home to Dallas. The Dallas chiefs met him at the airport at 4 AM to drive him home. There are still glimpses.

 

[redflyer65]

It's safe to say, that would have never happened anywhere else.

 

[-9Capt]

Yet, you defend the Tran who did nothing but that..

AirTran never gave me an ultimatum.
AirTran never threatened my employment.
AirTran never used strong arm tactics to downgraded me.
AirTran never threatened me with a "Plan B"
AirTran never signed secret contracts that adversely affected their employees.
AirTran never colluded with their pilots union in an effort to screw over another employee group.
AirTran never grossly disregarded seniority.
***and lastly***
AirTran does not preach the golden rule like a hypocrite.


SW came to ALPA with smiles, a handshake, a rubber duck and a "medallion" and ultimately ended up sticking it up our arse. Some may eventually get over it, but to me, this doesn't make for good, lasting employee relations.

 

[HowardBorden]

The treatment AirTran pilots have received thus far can never be undone. No amount of future goodwill by this airline will ever make up for it. Ask me in ten years and I'll tell you the same. The animosity and resentment will not go away. They created it and I'm forced to live with it.

No one can force you to change your opinions, nor will anyone try. Many have come before you and learned to love it at SWA. It sounds as if you are prepared to just be miserable until retirement. To me that sounds depressing and I can't even imagine trudging to a job week after week, year after year knowing I will never be happy. But again, to each his own. If that is the way you choose to move forward it is certainly your prerogative. In the end no one can change the past and no amount of goodwill can change the future for you, so you seem to be in a very unenviable spot. I sincerely hope your future at SWA ends up better than you are anticipating it will.

 

[-9Capt]

If that is the way you choose to move forward it is certainly your prerogative.

It's not my choice as much as it is the way SW dictated it to be. It was never my choice or desire to work for SW, never mind the massive seniority and loss that was forced upon me for the privilege of doing so.

 

[-9Capt]

I sincerely hope your future at SWA ends up better than you are anticipating it will.

Thanks, me too.

 

[HowardBorden]

It's not my choice as much as it is the way SW dictated it to be. It was never my choice or desire to work for SW, never mind the massive seniority and loss that was forced upon me for the privilege of doing so.

Obviously the acquisition was not your choice. But, how you choose to move forward with a situation over which you have no power to change is your choice. It can be a debilitating burden that you are never able to unload or it can be something much less ominous.

 

[madjack]

I some what agree with -9cpt, GK. should have been more forthcoming about the 717 leaving, the SLI would be very different...

 

[waveflyer]

AirTran never gave me an ultimatum.
AirTran never threatened my employment.
AirTran never used strong arm tactics to downgraded me.
AirTran never threatened me with a "Plan B"
AirTran never signed secret contracts that adversely affected their employees.
AirTran never colluded with their pilots union in an effort to screw over another employee group.
AirTran never grossly disregarded seniority.
***and lastly***
AirTran does not preach the golden rule like a hypocrite.


SW came to ALPA with smiles, a handshake, a rubber duck and a "medallion" and ultimately ended up sticking it up our arse. Some may eventually get over it, but to me, this doesn't make for good, lasting employee relations.

What seniority list would not fit the definition of "screwed" to you? And please be specific. Where would you be on the list.

Every angry tran I know can't answer that question or reveals their unrealistic expectation which drive their unhappiness more than anything.

Air Tran has some ownership in this. You're playing a revisionist history

 

[Dan Roman]

It's safe to say, that would have never happened anywhere else.

No it's not. That kind of individual compassion goes on at other airlines too. They just don't use it to pat themselves on the back.
I agree at the larger airlines you are much more of a " just a number" but there are still plenty of genuine good people that do good things as individuals.

 

[-9Capt]

What seniority list would not fit the definition of "screwed" to you? And please be specific. Where would you be on the list.

SWAPA and ALPA would never have agreed on what is "fair and equitable". Therefore I would have been happy to see it go to arbitration like we all agreed to. SW used threats and ultimatums to deny AirTran pilots their day in court. If an arbitrator returned a similar ISL, I wouldn't be on here bitching about it. I might not have agreed with it, but I'd have moved on by now. It's a lot different when one sides version of F&E is crammed up your arse hole.

 

[General Lee]

SWAPA and ALPA would never have agreed on what is "fair and equitable". Therefore I would have been happy to see it go to arbitration like we all agreed to. SW used threats and ultimatums to deny AirTran pilots their day in court. If an arbitrator returned a similar ISL, I wouldn't be on here bitching about it. I might not have agreed with it, but I'd have moved on by now. It's a lot different when one sides version of F&E is crammed up your arse hole.

Ouch again! And, it makes sense. I wonder how Wave will respond?

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ASADFW7]

I wonder if dc9 is the Midway pilot who all the captains complain about?

 

[sfomarc]

AirTran never gave me an ultimatum.
AirTran never threatened my employment.
AirTran never used strong arm tactics to downgraded me.
AirTran never threatened me with a "Plan B"
AirTran never signed secret contracts that adversely affected their employees.
AirTran never colluded with their pilots union in an effort to screw over another employee group.
AirTran never grossly disregarded seniority.
***and lastly***
AirTran does not preach the golden rule like a hypocrite.


SW came to ALPA with smiles, a handshake, a rubber duck and a "medallion" and ultimately ended up sticking it up our arse. Some may eventually get over it, but to me, this doesn't make for good, lasting employee relations.

Sounds like you could start a lawsuit against SWA. I'd get on that.

 

[sfomarc]

SWAPA and ALPA would never have agreed on what is "fair and equitable". Therefore I would have been happy to see it go to arbitration like we all agreed to. SW used threats and ultimatums to deny AirTran pilots their day in court. If an arbitrator returned a similar ISL, I wouldn't be on here bitching about it. I might not have agreed with it, but I'd have moved on by now. It's a lot different when one sides version of F&E is crammed up your arse hole.

And what would be fair and equitable to you if the company stated that the 717's were going away ASAP from the get go which was always the case? How would an arbitrator view that?

 

[Kenney G]

And what would be fair and equitable to you if the company stated that the 717's were going away ASAP from the get go which was always the case? How would an arbitrator view that?

I believe the arbitrator takes a snapshot of the companies at the date of purchase. Do you think an arbitrator cared that the dc-9's where on their way out at NWA during their arbitration? No.

 

[waveflyer]

SWAPA and ALPA would never have agreed on what is "fair and equitable". Therefore I would have been happy to see it go to arbitration like we all agreed to. SW used threats and ultimatums to deny AirTran pilots their day in court. If an arbitrator returned a similar ISL, I wouldn't be on here bitching about it. I might not have agreed with it, but I'd have moved on by now. It's a lot different when one sides version of F&E is crammed up your arse hole.

And when alpa was playing games delaying the steps they were required by the PA to go through with a good faith effort?? That's not your responsibility?

So you don't care about the actual sli, just the way it happened - yet refuse to see your own unions neurosis, fragmentation, and willful delay in creating that...?

Btw- I thoroughly disagree with the list too- so the same could be said on this side- you don't think the message didn't come across loud and clear from mgmt on our end either?

If you think the resulting list is "our side's version of F & E" you're outside of your mind. It absolutely screwed at least the last 2000 on our list

 

[-9Capt]

And what would be fair and equitable to you if the company stated that the 717's were going away ASAP from the get go which was always the case? How would an arbitrator view that?

Always the case?

That's not what R McCreedy (sic?) told a room full of us at a town hall meeting in ATL. But I'm sure you knew that.

 

[RLAblows]

And what would be fair and equitable to you if the company stated that the 717's were going away ASAP from the get go which was always the case? How would an arbitrator view that?

I would imagine with that kind of honesty from the get go the DOJ would have never approved the deal.

 

[-9Capt]

Do you think an arbitrator cared that the dc-9's where on their way out at NWA during their arbitration? No.

You're demonstrating your lack of understanding. The 717's were the only capt seats that an AirTran pilot could expect to hold. Totally different and unrelated to NW retiring their -9s. The transition bid was a ruse by management, totally meaningless and a waste of time.

DAL/NWA is apples to oranges.