SWA New Work Rules?

[BID]

Did you guys just vote on a work rule change? Heard it passed and I am just curious what the details are, etc.

B

 

[shootr]

Bid,

It's not a permanent work-rule change. The company and union came up with some work rule changes to increase pilot productivity that they'd each like to test. The pilots just agreed to a 6 month test checking some things to include some lines working 1 more day per month for 1 more day of pay, rigging most open time regardless of how it may have gotten split, the ability to work for more pay during a vacation or overlap already payed for, and some other small items that are really not too big of a deal.

This test is supposed to arm the union and the company with better data going into our upcoming section 6. Hopefully, it ends up being a win-win for us and the company (saves the company money and helps the pilots with pay/QOL).

Cautiously optimistic,
shootr

 

[Big Beer Belly]

It's not a permanent work-rule change. The company and union came up with some work rule changes to increase pilot productivity that they'd each like to test.

Did the company say what might happen should the "increased productivity" test not result in its intended savings?

 

[TexaSWA]

Did the company say what might happen should the "increased productivity" test not result in its intended savings?

It automatically sunsets in six months. If it doesnt work for both of us (company and union) it is not extended and doesnt become part of our next contract.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Thanks Tex.

 

[7S3W7A]

Yes, BBB we just lost a day off every month. about 30% of our pilot union voted. It won't go beyond the 6 months when people see their days off tick away.

 

[7S3W7A]

Bid,

It's not a permanent work-rule change. The company and union came up with some work rule changes to increase pilot productivity that they'd each like to test. The pilots just agreed to a 6 month test checking some things to include some lines working 1 more day per month for 1 more day of pay, rigging most open time regardless of how it may have gotten split, the ability to work for more pay during a vacation or overlap already payed for, and some other small items that are really not too big of a deal.

This test is supposed to arm the union and the company with better data going into our upcoming section 6. Hopefully, it ends up being a win-win for us and the company (saves the company money and helps the pilots with pay/QOL).

Cautiously optimistic,
shootr

"Not too big of a deal"

Are you insane or just really senior? Losing a day off per month really affects the junior guys but as usual the senior guys around here only care for themselves.

 

[SWA/FO]

Attn: the sky is falling, the sky is falling at Southwest!!!

Some lines are going to be beefier for the guys who want to work more..... no one took a day from you pal. I think its 10% of the lines.... so 430 pilots or so will have an extra day on their line, these are the guys that add a day to their line anyway....so now they will not have to do it. Just bid correctly.

7 posts there 7s3w7a....all have something in common, they are all negative, there is no way you work here at SWA?

 

[chase]

"Not too big of a deal"

Are you insane or just really senior? Losing a day off per month really affects the junior guys but as usual the senior guys around here only care for themselves.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion sir/maam and while the work rule changes will increase the workload for some junior pilots (for 100 lines, 7 or 8 pilots will have to work an additional day of flying on their regular line), the agreed upon side letter also allows more flying to be put in open time for everyone to choose from to fly more...others will have that opportunity to fly more. I will grant you that not everyone can give away days of flying since someone must pick it up, the "test" will show us two different ways to skin the cat, so to speak. The ability to trade down trips will still be there for folks so whether the 7 or 8 pilots who get extra flying actually fly extra isn't pre-ordained with the system we have...wouldn't you agree?

I was junior once also, if we were a company that wasn't growing I would have concerns....all of our plights are improving, junior, mid-level & senior pilots...that is a good thing I think you would agree. Just as reserve isn't a great deal (we can make it better in the next contract I believe), one doesn't stay there forever.

As for your comments that the senior folks only care for themselves...if that is your perception of the pilot group at SWA let me respectfully disagree with you. I'm not an "old-head", long time flyer here but I have seen the mentality you described, "me-tooism" at all levels of seniority...that doesn't mean I would paint the broad brush that all SWA pilots are that way. I've also seen from all levels of seniority a team spirit that is rather unique (I've never been anywhere else but from others who have, they tell me it is unique) among the airline industry. I believe your disparaging of the group serves no useful purpose & if you are indeed a pilot for SWA then with all due respect, you've painted yourself with the same broad brush of "give me mine now"....not exactly a trait any of us wish to have applied I believe. I don't believet that was your intended outcome of your post but it certainly could be interpreted that way.

I personally felt there was enough justification that either side could argue the pros or the cons for either supporting or not voting for the SL...it isn't black or white. Disparaging those who did is just as wrong as disparaging those who didn't support it in my opinion. It's past, it got voted on, the process worked (I wish more had voted though as you do also I"m sure), lets work with it & see what comes of it....the jury is still out so lets let it run its course. But again, it's only my opinion. My best fellow SWA FO. cheers...

 

[shootr]

"Not too big of a deal"

Are you insane or just really senior? Losing a day off per month really affects the junior guys but as usual the senior guys around here only care for themselves.

7S3W7A,

Senior? No.

How did I vote? "NO!" as many times as I could. Did you vote? Did you try to convince guys to vote "no" before the vote was over?

Am I insane? Don't know for sure but I'm not a Koolie nor a militant PPruner and I don't think this will be a big deal for the next 6 months and if it $ucks we can get rid of it. If guys have to work the extra day, they'll get the extra pay. I'm willing to bet some of these new lines will go senior. The sky is not falling and I'm willing to abide by the majority of guys who cared enough to vote on this issue. I'll bet my Jan-Jun lines are better than my Dec line!

BTW, did you read my post? The "no big deal" was aimed at the other stuff, not the extra day of work you appear to have a problem with.

Good luck all,
shootr

 

[Luke's Dad]

Do the reserves work an extra day too?

Looking forward to be reserve guy somewhere...

 

[TR4A]

Bid,

It's not a permanent work-rule change. The company and union came up with some work rule changes to increase pilot productivity that they'd each like to test. The pilots just agreed to a 6 month test checking some things to include some lines working 1 more day per month for 1 more day of pay, rigging most open time regardless of how it may have gotten split, the ability to work for more pay during a vacation or overlap already payed for, and some other small items that are really not too big of a deal.

This test is supposed to arm the union and the company with better data going into our upcoming section 6. Hopefully, it ends up being a win-win for us and the company (saves the company money and helps the pilots with pay/QOL).

Cautiously optimistic,
shootr

Hey Shooter! Did you read this side letter? The ONE month is March.

Rigs on Open Time — In this test, the 5.0 TFP Duty Period
Minimum (DPM) and Duty Hour Ratio (DHR) rigs would be
applied to all trips split by Crew Scheduling for a period of
one month.
These rigs will not apply to pairings split by pilots in Trip
Trade & Giveaway that end up in Open Time. This test
will take place with current workday targets and Open
Time parameters in order to provide more valid test results.
This test should measure the actual cost of rigging pairings
split by Crew Scheduling as well as the potential savings
in premium pay and any potential savings derived from
reduced manning (Reserve) requirements.


​

 

[TexaSWA]

Do the reserves work an extra day too?

Looking forward to be reserve guy somewhere...

Only a few hard lines

 

[shootr]

Hey Shooter! Did you read this side letter? The ONE month is March.

Yes, as a matter of fact I did. I voted "no" because I saw the disparity in the SL of how much it favored the company versus the pilot group. I did not like the process by which it came about, either. However, I don't think it's the end of the world, just a test, which may or may not even produce valid data. I don't think it'll have any big effects on anybody including somebody as junior as myself. I can live with it without being angry at the company, the union, and the majority of voters who voted "yes". If that makes you and others mad, so be it.

Good luck all,
shootr

 

[7S3W7A]

Yes, as a matter of fact I did. I voted "no" because I saw the disparity in the SL of how much it favored the company versus the pilot group. I did not like the process by which it came about, either. However, I don't think it's the end of the world, just a test, which may or may not even produce valid data. I don't think it'll have any big effects on anybody including somebody as junior as myself. I can live with it without being angry at the company, the union, and the majority of voters who voted "yes". If that makes you and others mad, so be it.

Good luck all,
shootr

I could never be mad at SWA they are looking out for the best interests of everyone as they see fit. They definitely take care of us the best they can. However, I find our Union seedy and corrupt. Between the double dipping of Mr. Utah and paying pilots $200k to keep up the web site is abhorrent. The pilots here are great except for the scandalous ones in SWAPA management.

 

[Green]

This work rule change sounds like a concession. Why are SWA pilots offering concessions when the company is profitable and growing???

 

[SWA/FO]

SWAPA vs. ALPA? I'll take SWAPA anyday!
WRONG green, nice try....:laugh:

 

[kc81900]

This work rule change sounds like a concession. Why are SWA pilots offering concessions when the company is profitable and growing???

Your an idiot. Maybe that is why SWA is profitable they and management work together instead of taking the ALPA approach bleed them until it hurts then furlough. Cause we need our dues. Oh by the way I work for an alpa carrier and in my opinion ALPA sucks.

 

[TexaSWA]

This work rule change sounds like a concession. Why are SWA pilots offering concessions when the company is profitable and growing???

What work rule change is this that everyone keeps talking about. I know only of a temporary test where an extra day of flying is added to a small percentage of lines, and duty rigs are applied to split trips in open time. Both equate to more money for people who normally pick up an extra day.

Its not as if the extra day is flown for free. Alot of people pick up and extra day or two. Bid one of these lines and you wont have to.

Whats more, if we dont like it, we dont have to keep it.

Doesnt sound like a consession to me Green. Ask DAL, UAL and UAIR guys what a concession is, they will tell you.

 

[Tripower455]

This work rule change sounds like a concession. Why are SWA pilots offering concessions when the company is profitable and growing???

Good Question.......

 

[SWA/FO]

Already, been answered above

 

[ivauir]

I could never be mad at SWA they are looking out for the best interests of everyone as they see fit. They definitely take care of us the best they can. However, I find our Union seedy and corrupt. Between the double dipping of Mr. Utah and paying pilots $200k to keep up the web site is abhorrent. The pilots here are great except for the scandalous ones in SWAPA management.

Please, (pretty please) leave our dirty laundry off of flight info. I'm not trying to censor you or tell you we don't have problems, I just can't see any good coming from posting any of this here.

 

[Green]

SWAPA vs. ALPA? I'll take SWAPA anyday!
WRONG green, nice try....:laugh:

what's wrong with you guys???? "Nice try" at what? I was asking a legitimate question there chief. The big bold type was a nice touch though, lol. Funny that your response had absolutely nothing to do with my question. I don't like alpa either. Make you feel any better?

I'll ask again why are you voluntarily giving concessions (if that's what they are) when the company is profitable. If you are voluntarily giving concessions does that mean your next contract will likely be concessionary in nature?

I'm envious of your current pay rates and work rules. I am not envious of having to fly with tools such as SWAFO and Kc81900.

 

[Green]

Your an idiot. Maybe that is why SWA is profitable they and management work together instead of taking the ALPA approach bleed them until it hurts then furlough. Cause we need our dues. Oh by the way I work for an alpa carrier and in my opinion ALPA sucks.

Wow, that was classic. Did you go to college before you got that sucky alpa job?

 

[Jim Smyth]

They arnt connsessions. We are tring to make the company even more profitable. This way we can stay competative and still keep the pay up there.

 

[TR4A]

rigging most open time regardless of how it may have gotten split

shootr

I voted no. I was just trying to point out that your statement about the rigged flying was wrong.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Green,
This is not a concession. This is a test period to see if contractual changes would benefit all involved. The company wants more productivity and the pilots want to change rigs and some pay issues. Aside from that, I agree with Ivauir that we need to keep our "mud slinging" to the union board.
Later...

 

[Green]

flyinguy-

thanks for the info.

 

[7S3W7A]

SWAPA vs. ALPA? I'll take SWAPA anyday!
WRONG green, nice try....:laugh:

I have worked at an ALPA carrier and now SWAPA. I tell you ALPA National sucks and is a political money making sham. However, the pilots who worked at ALPA local were giving of thier time and worked hard for their membership.

What I wouldn't give to replace every SWAPA exec. with those ALPA local guys.

 

[7S3W7A]

What work rule change is this that everyone keeps talking about. I know only of a temporary test where an extra day of flying is added to a small percentage of lines, and duty rigs are applied to split trips in open time. Both equate to more money for people who normally pick up an extra day.

Its not as if the extra day is flown for free. Alot of people pick up and extra day or two. Bid one of these lines and you wont have to.

Whats more, if we dont like it, we dont have to keep it.

Doesnt sound like a consession to me Green. Ask DAL, UAL and UAIR guys what a concession is, they will tell you.

It's a concession to the junior guys who are going to be stuck with the lines with less days off. The senior guys will bid more days off which allows them to cherry pick the best open time slots. Another stomp on the junior guys. The fact that you are blind to this amazes me.