SWA lands at wrong Branson Airport

[SpauldingSmails]

FYI. One casts aspersions.

 

[waveflyer]

Haha-
I get th.E iPad mN-

Points made and beaten-
No worries and I don't cast anything but a fishing line-

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

Actually it's along the lines of a good landing starts with a good approach. I.E how you conduct every phase of your flight is, in fact, connected.
If you are of the mindset that beating the crap out of the passengers to save a minute or 2 on the taxiway, it stands to reason that you would also be in a hurry and more vulnerable to mistakes once airborne.
Now that said, WE ALL LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES! This could happen to anyone. It's pretty weak to start pointing fingers when something goes wrong. Everyone one of us has made mistakes. It's the ones that think they are above other pilots mistakes tend to be the really weak ones you gotta watch.

I take offense to the term this could happen to anyone. I say Bullsh$t. 30 years flying and 26 of those on 121 this doesn't just happen to anyone. This could have been serious had they rolled another 400 ft or so. Missing taxi ways or missing alt crossings or on the lines of that ok. But land at a wrong airport with the sophisticated instruments onboard. It's plain idiotic. I'll wait for the final report, which by the way, may never surface so let's just say this was not something 99% of the pilots on this board will ever do.

 

[freightdogfred]

I take offense to the term this could happen to anyone. I say Bullsh$t. 30 years flying and 26 of those on 121 this doesn't just happen to anyone. This could have been serious had they rolled another 400 ft or so. Missing taxi ways or missing alt crossings or on the lines of that ok. But land at a wrong airport with the sophisticated instruments onboard. It's plain idiotic. I'll wait for the final report, which by the way, may never surface so let's just say this was not something 99% of the pilots on this board will ever do.

It happens. It's happened quite a few times. It almost happened to me, I guess that's why I sympathize with those two poor ba$tards who prob will get chitcanned. I wish them luck. To all you skygods who never fart in the cockpit good luck to you too.

 

[Mamma]

If you think a certain number of mistakes as a captain are OK, please tell me which ones are? I'm dying to know as I'm sure others are. You're attitude comes from thinking this is an attack on SWA. It couldn't Be farther from the truth. This is about airmanship...

You should read the book "Sky Gods.". Pay special attention to the problems Pan Am had with captains who could do no wrong.

As to how many mistakes are ok, the answer is simple: as many as you can mitigate. I have yet to fly the perfect flight and I make mistakes. I catch most of them and the other pilot catches the few I miss. (the goal is to mitigate in the flight deck vs ATC or an incident!) This is why we stress effective CRM and pilot monitoring. Nobody is perfect and I highly doubt you bring an "A" game every time. Everyone needs to remember one thing when these things happens: There is always a chain of events that lead up to an incident. Multiple people have an opportunity to break a link and prevent an incident. So, that being said, if the pilots did not willfully violate policy or purposely act reckless, they should not be hung out alone to dry by armchair quarterbacks.

 

[densoo]

As to how many mistakes are ok, the answer is simple: as many as you can mitigate. I have yet to fly the perfect flight and I make mistakes. I catch most of them and the other pilot catches the few I miss. (the goal is to mitigate in the flight deck vs ATC or an incident!) This is why we stress effective CRM and pilot monitoring. Nobody is perfect and I highly doubt you bring an "A" game every time. Everyone needs to remember one thing when these things happens: There is always a chain of events that lead up to an incident. Multiple people have an opportunity to break a link and prevent an incident.

Bullseye.

 

[waveflyer]

Bullseye.

+1
Said much better than I could manage Mamma

 

[rtmcfi]

You should read the book "Sky Gods.". Pay special attention to the problems Pan Am had with captains who could do no wrong.

As to how many mistakes are ok, the answer is simple: as many as you can mitigate. I have yet to fly the perfect flight and I make mistakes. I catch most of them and the other pilot catches the few I miss. (the goal is to mitigate in the flight deck vs ATC or an incident!) This is why we stress effective CRM and pilot monitoring. Nobody is perfect and I highly doubt you bring an "A" game every time. Everyone needs to remember one thing when these things happens: There is always a chain of events that lead up to an incident. Multiple people have an opportunity to break a link and prevent an incident. So, that being said, if the pilots did not willfully violate policy or purposely act reckless, they should not be hung out alone to dry by armchair quarterbacks.

Spot on.....

 

[Dan Roman]

I take offense to the term this could happen to anyone.

I should clarify...what I'm saying is we all make mistakes. Maybe you or I wouldn't make THIS mistake. Seems to me you should always have electronic back up to a visual. In fact, whatever happened simply couldn't have been done in an AirBus without gross negligence. So personally I couldn't do this, but I could make some other kind of error ...we all make mistakes, we all get fatigued, we all have mechanical problems and we all could get victimized by a perfect storm of them coming together at the wrong time. So maybe this was a total bonehead deal, but the simple fact is we are all human and can screw up. If not like this then something else. The less likely you are willing to admit it simply means you are more likely than most to have problems.

 

[scoreboardII]

You should read the book "Sky Gods.". Pay special attention to the problems Pan Am had with captains who could do no wrong.

As to how many mistakes are ok, the answer is simple: as many as you can mitigate. I have yet to fly the perfect flight and I make mistakes. I catch most of them and the other pilot catches the few I miss. (the goal is to mitigate in the flight deck vs ATC or an incident!) This is why we stress effective CRM and pilot monitoring. Nobody is perfect and I highly doubt you bring an "A" game every time. Everyone needs to remember one thing when these things happens: There is always a chain of events that lead up to an incident. Multiple people have an opportunity to break a link and prevent an incident. So, that being said, if the pilots did not willfully violate policy or purposely act reckless, they should not be hung out alone to dry by armchair quarterbacks.

I hope there will be whole lots of mitigation as to why this happened, for those pilots sake.

To the it could happen to any of us line of thought? BS.

No, I have never had a perfect flight in 121 operations, because I'm always watching the other guy as much as what I do. I catch some of his stuff, he catches mine. We always do good enough.

But to say you PLANNED and BRIEFED and EXECUTED as two professional pilots who claim to be deserving a very high paycheck, and then land at the wrong field , with the excuse it could happen to any of us, is just BS on so many levels gentleman.

I'm all for waiting for the facts here, I hope they show many factors the crew faced, beyond the realm of normal, enough to result in a lack of some simple awareness of their true intended destination, I do., I really do.

Because, I am NOT going to tell the next paying passenger that "IT COULD HAPPEN TO ANY OF US!" If you really think that, please find other employment you are capable of doing to your level of competency.

 

[Mamma]

I hope there will be whole lots of mitigation as to why this happened, for those pilots sake.

To the it could happen to any of us line of thought? BS.

No, I have never had a perfect flight in 121 operations, because I'm always watching the other guy as much as what I do. I catch some of his stuff, he catches mine. We always do good enough.

But to say you PLANNED and BRIEFED and EXECUTED as two professional pilots who claim to be deserving a very high paycheck, and then land at the wrong field , with the excuse it could happen to any of us, is just BS on so many levels gentleman.

I'm all for waiting for the facts here, I hope they show many factors the crew faced, beyond the realm of normal, enough to result in a lack of some simple awareness of their true intended destination, I do., I really do.

Because, I am NOT going to tell the next paying passenger that "IT COULD HAPPEN TO ANY OF US!" If you really think that, please find other employment you are capable of doing to your level of competency.

I see reading comprehension is not your strong point. Just where did I say this could happen to any of us? What I did was answer Little G Force in regards to mistakes. Also, before you skewer the crew too much, maybe you should hear the facts on what happened. It may just be they were incompetent boobs who should never fly an airliner again. Or maybe not.

 

[scoreboardII]

I see reading comprehension is not your strong point. Just where did I say this could happen to any of us? What I did was answer Little G Force in regards to mistakes. Also, before you skewer the crew too much, maybe you should hear the facts on what happened. It may just be they were incompetent boobs who should never fly an airliner again. Or maybe not.

You are correct, I didn't mean to imply you said the "it can happen to any of us" sorry. My comment was directed at the general thread direction of same.

 

[waveflyer]

I guess my humility comes in knowing very good pilots who had event chains lead to their death-
Gentlemen, I offer no excuses from the crew, but we live in a very lucky time in aviation that continues to get better as we operate VERY safely in an inherently dangerous vocation -
We do so BECAUSE of error chains like we'll read about with this event. Learning g from these events is far more productive than yelling how it could "NEVER" happen to you-

Which it couldn't... Sure...
Maybe...

Until one day you live the nightmare and walk around going "how the hell did THAT happen"

Be productive gentlemen. That's my singular point.
What can we do differently to ACTUALLY NEVER experience an event like this again?

That will be better determined with the cvr and more details, but I've given my one contribution

 

[booo]

Runways have an approach end and a departure end. Everyone is focused on the departure end. Anyone know what's a few miles out on the approach end? Even you smug, omnipotent, I know it all guys missed that one, huh?

Hint: It's a rock.

 

[LandGreen]

I should clarify...what I'm saying is we all make mistakes. Maybe you or I wouldn't make THIS mistake. Seems to me you should always have electronic back up to a visual. In fact, whatever happened simply couldn't have been done in an AirBus without gross negligence. So personally I couldn't do this, but I could make some other kind of error ...we all make mistakes, we all get fatigued, we all have mechanical problems and we all could get victimized by a perfect storm of them coming together at the wrong time. So maybe this was a total bonehead deal, but the simple fact is we are all human and can screw up. If not like this then something else. The less likely you are willing to admit it simply means you are more likely than most to have problems.

I agree with you about gross negligence, but you do recall the A319 Northwest colors that mistakenly landed at AF base instead of......i think Rapid City

 

[freightdogfred]

I hope there will be whole lots of mitigation as to why this happened, for those pilots sake.

To the it could happen to any of us line of thought? BS.

No, I have never had a perfect flight in 121 operations, because I'm always watching the other guy as much as what I do. I catch some of his stuff, he catches mine. We always do good enough.

But to say you PLANNED and BRIEFED and EXECUTED as two professional pilots who claim to be deserving a very high paycheck, and then land at the wrong field , with the excuse it could happen to any of us, is just BS on so many levels gentleman.

I'm all for waiting for the facts here, I hope they show many factors the crew faced, beyond the realm of normal, enough to result in a lack of some simple awareness of their true intended destination, I do., I really do.

Because, I am NOT going to tell the next paying passenger that "IT COULD HAPPEN TO ANY OF US!" If you really think that, please find other employment you are capable of doing to your level of competency.

Hey, they're your peeps, skygod. Hang em high. Round up the guy who destroyed the tail of that brand new -800 in Vegas while you're at it.

 

[Dan Roman]

I agree with you about gross negligence, but you do recall the A319 Northwest colors that mistakenly landed at AF base instead of......i think Rapid City

No I didn't hear about that one. How the hell could you land at the wrong airport given the way the box interacts with the airplane????? I can honestly say I wouldn't do that!
I do understand the pilots on here saying they wouldn't screw up as bad as this guy did at Branson. I think all of us feel that way and that's a good thing. I'm just trying to make a case that we need to all be a little humble enough to admit that mistakes can happen to anyone. My take is the debate on here is more about semantics than anything else. All of us take pride in our professionalism (or should) and are confident we wouldn't screw up this bad, but the point is we are all human and should be very careful about pointing fingers. Our profession is loaded with over confidence and cocky behavior producing some very bad results. As was well said above, the Pan Am "SkyGods" is a great example.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

So, that being said, if the pilots did not willfully violate policy or purposely act reckless, they should not be hung out alone to dry by armchair quarterbacks.

Landing at the wrong airport is the essence of reckless. Everything that is being argued is moot, they went to the wrong place, navigation efficiency of 7+ miles? Sorry guys not even Private Pilot grade.

 

[densoo]

So, that being said, if the pilots did not willfully violate policy or purposely act reckless, they should not be hung out alone to dry by armchair quarterbacks.

The Northwest pilots who went past their destination may be the guide as to what action the FAA chooses, regardless of all the speculation here.

 

[freightdogfred]

I should clarify...what I'm saying is we all make mistakes. Maybe you or I wouldn't make THIS mistake. Seems to me you should always have electronic back up to a visual. In fact, whatever happened simply couldn't have been done in an AirBus without gross negligence. So personally I couldn't do this, but I could make some other kind of error ...we all make mistakes, we all get fatigued, we all have mechanical problems and we all could get victimized by a perfect storm of them coming together at the wrong time. So maybe this was a total bonehead deal, but the simple fact is we are all human and can screw up. If not like this then something else. The less likely you are willing to admit it simply means you are more likely than most to have problems.

Good post. And exactly my point. All screwups are total bonehead deals, at least the ones that make the news, and I call bullschit on the guys who say it can't happen to them. The heart and soul of CRM is to deal with things like this and guys who loudly proclaim it can never happen to them wants me to locate the nearest exit.