SWA lands at wrong Branson Airport

[Mamma]

I hope there will be whole lots of mitigation as to why this happened, for those pilots sake.

To the it could happen to any of us line of thought? BS.

No, I have never had a perfect flight in 121 operations, because I'm always watching the other guy as much as what I do. I catch some of his stuff, he catches mine. We always do good enough.

But to say you PLANNED and BRIEFED and EXECUTED as two professional pilots who claim to be deserving a very high paycheck, and then land at the wrong field , with the excuse it could happen to any of us, is just BS on so many levels gentleman.

I'm all for waiting for the facts here, I hope they show many factors the crew faced, beyond the realm of normal, enough to result in a lack of some simple awareness of their true intended destination, I do., I really do.

Because, I am NOT going to tell the next paying passenger that "IT COULD HAPPEN TO ANY OF US!" If you really think that, please find other employment you are capable of doing to your level of competency.

I see reading comprehension is not your strong point. Just where did I say this could happen to any of us? What I did was answer Little G Force in regards to mistakes. Also, before you skewer the crew too much, maybe you should hear the facts on what happened. It may just be they were incompetent boobs who should never fly an airliner again. Or maybe not.

 

[scoreboardII]

I see reading comprehension is not your strong point. Just where did I say this could happen to any of us? What I did was answer Little G Force in regards to mistakes. Also, before you skewer the crew too much, maybe you should hear the facts on what happened. It may just be they were incompetent boobs who should never fly an airliner again. Or maybe not.

You are correct, I didn't mean to imply you said the "it can happen to any of us" sorry. My comment was directed at the general thread direction of same.

 

[waveflyer]

I guess my humility comes in knowing very good pilots who had event chains lead to their death-
Gentlemen, I offer no excuses from the crew, but we live in a very lucky time in aviation that continues to get better as we operate VERY safely in an inherently dangerous vocation -
We do so BECAUSE of error chains like we'll read about with this event. Learning g from these events is far more productive than yelling how it could "NEVER" happen to you-

Which it couldn't... Sure...
Maybe...

Until one day you live the nightmare and walk around going "how the hell did THAT happen"

Be productive gentlemen. That's my singular point.
What can we do differently to ACTUALLY NEVER experience an event like this again?

That will be better determined with the cvr and more details, but I've given my one contribution

 

[booo]

Runways have an approach end and a departure end. Everyone is focused on the departure end. Anyone know what's a few miles out on the approach end? Even you smug, omnipotent, I know it all guys missed that one, huh?

Hint: It's a rock.

 

[LandGreen]

I should clarify...what I'm saying is we all make mistakes. Maybe you or I wouldn't make THIS mistake. Seems to me you should always have electronic back up to a visual. In fact, whatever happened simply couldn't have been done in an AirBus without gross negligence. So personally I couldn't do this, but I could make some other kind of error ...we all make mistakes, we all get fatigued, we all have mechanical problems and we all could get victimized by a perfect storm of them coming together at the wrong time. So maybe this was a total bonehead deal, but the simple fact is we are all human and can screw up. If not like this then something else. The less likely you are willing to admit it simply means you are more likely than most to have problems.

I agree with you about gross negligence, but you do recall the A319 Northwest colors that mistakenly landed at AF base instead of......i think Rapid City

 

[freightdogfred]

I hope there will be whole lots of mitigation as to why this happened, for those pilots sake.

To the it could happen to any of us line of thought? BS.

No, I have never had a perfect flight in 121 operations, because I'm always watching the other guy as much as what I do. I catch some of his stuff, he catches mine. We always do good enough.

But to say you PLANNED and BRIEFED and EXECUTED as two professional pilots who claim to be deserving a very high paycheck, and then land at the wrong field , with the excuse it could happen to any of us, is just BS on so many levels gentleman.

I'm all for waiting for the facts here, I hope they show many factors the crew faced, beyond the realm of normal, enough to result in a lack of some simple awareness of their true intended destination, I do., I really do.

Because, I am NOT going to tell the next paying passenger that "IT COULD HAPPEN TO ANY OF US!" If you really think that, please find other employment you are capable of doing to your level of competency.

Hey, they're your peeps, skygod. Hang em high. Round up the guy who destroyed the tail of that brand new -800 in Vegas while you're at it.

 

[Dan Roman]

I agree with you about gross negligence, but you do recall the A319 Northwest colors that mistakenly landed at AF base instead of......i think Rapid City

No I didn't hear about that one. How the hell could you land at the wrong airport given the way the box interacts with the airplane????? I can honestly say I wouldn't do that!
I do understand the pilots on here saying they wouldn't screw up as bad as this guy did at Branson. I think all of us feel that way and that's a good thing. I'm just trying to make a case that we need to all be a little humble enough to admit that mistakes can happen to anyone. My take is the debate on here is more about semantics than anything else. All of us take pride in our professionalism (or should) and are confident we wouldn't screw up this bad, but the point is we are all human and should be very careful about pointing fingers. Our profession is loaded with over confidence and cocky behavior producing some very bad results. As was well said above, the Pan Am "SkyGods" is a great example.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

So, that being said, if the pilots did not willfully violate policy or purposely act reckless, they should not be hung out alone to dry by armchair quarterbacks.

Landing at the wrong airport is the essence of reckless. Everything that is being argued is moot, they went to the wrong place, navigation efficiency of 7+ miles? Sorry guys not even Private Pilot grade.

 

[densoo]

So, that being said, if the pilots did not willfully violate policy or purposely act reckless, they should not be hung out alone to dry by armchair quarterbacks.

The Northwest pilots who went past their destination may be the guide as to what action the FAA chooses, regardless of all the speculation here.

 

[freightdogfred]

I should clarify...what I'm saying is we all make mistakes. Maybe you or I wouldn't make THIS mistake. Seems to me you should always have electronic back up to a visual. In fact, whatever happened simply couldn't have been done in an AirBus without gross negligence. So personally I couldn't do this, but I could make some other kind of error ...we all make mistakes, we all get fatigued, we all have mechanical problems and we all could get victimized by a perfect storm of them coming together at the wrong time. So maybe this was a total bonehead deal, but the simple fact is we are all human and can screw up. If not like this then something else. The less likely you are willing to admit it simply means you are more likely than most to have problems.

Good post. And exactly my point. All screwups are total bonehead deals, at least the ones that make the news, and I call bullschit on the guys who say it can't happen to them. The heart and soul of CRM is to deal with things like this and guys who loudly proclaim it can never happen to them wants me to locate the nearest exit.

 

[AAPilot]

Well at least they didn't almost hit a gas station(MDW)

 

[strega7]

Well at least they didn't almost hit a gas station(MDW)

Thought that was Burbank?

 

[Kharma Police]

Well at least they didn't almost hit a gas station(MDW)

Deleted

 

[freightdogfred]

It never ends....This place used to be good for info and real advice. I'm done peace out

 

[livin'thesim]

Taxi speed?

You guys are dumb and just mad we don't play your paid by the minute game

Naw, we're just tired of watching people push the envelope, with predictable results. You're only half an ego away from being as dangerous as the guy you were criticizing a few posts back.

 

[livin'thesim]

Have you ever operated at 250 knots below 10,000?
Have you ever thrown the gear or operated the flaps at maximum placarded speed?
Have you ever had a rest period reduced to only 8 hours?

The limits are in place to delineate the line for which a safe operation crosses from safe to unsafe or a legal operation becomes illegal. The safe side of either is exactly that, the safe side. I am not advocating operating at the maximum limits at all times, I'm simply saying that to do so has been deemed safe and legal by the folks making the rules governing our profession.

You seem to be struggling with the difference between "have you ever" and "do you always".

 

[Dan Roman]

It never ends....This place used to be good for info and real advice. I'm done peace out

I blame cable news believe it or not. A significant percentage of Americans think replacing substance with an insult is a valid way to make a point. Was it Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh that Time magazine called the "Messiah for Morons"?
Anyway, since an AA guy decided to throw rocks in his glass house I'll bring up Cali.

A crash caused by improper use of technology. Obviously this could have been prevented by correct application of glass technology.

Since the subject of what the FAA reaction will be came up.....I have to wonder if that's what will come out of this. More emphasis on proper use of technology. Reading the board here seems to indicate SWA is behind in that regard. NOT A SLAM! Understandable given their type of operation. Lot's of multiple legs and lot's of hand flying. Which brings up the other side of the sword. Too much technology equals weaker hand flying skills.The technology is a great tool when used properly, but a killer when used as a crutch and it turns to rubber.
They'll come up with some kind of knee jerk reaction though!

 

[Flopgut]

Here's a good link everybody might appreciate:

http://www.thirdamendment.com/wrongway.html

My favorite one:

July 31, 1979 - A Western Airlines 737, bound for Sheridan, Wyoming (SHR), mistakenly lands at Johnson County Airport (BYG) in Buffalo. Link. [Buffalo subsequently honored the pilot with a "Lowell Ferguson Days" celebration. Link.] See also David Bird and Albin Krebs, "Wyoming Town Fondly Remembers a Mistake," New York Times, July 7, 1981.

Nobody got hurt. The pilots have probably already beat themselves up enough. I'd let my family ride their airplane. That's my opinion.

It would be nice if it was still like it was in 79 in Buffalo, WY.

 

[Dan Roman]

Interesting post Flop...my quick take is this is one problem that should be greatly diminished thanks to glass technology.

 

[eaglesview]

Anyone think it's ironic that on the 5 year anniversary of Sully successfully putting a crippled Airbus into the Hudson saving everyone on board we have folks on here actually defending to Airline pilots with a combines 28 years at SW that couldn't find the correct airport in VFR conditions. even student pilots would have some explaining to do.

Gross negligence plain and simple

 

[chqflyer]

Looks like it.



http://youtu.be/XWxF7Tp5nCM

Emergency Take Off? Were some angry rednecks chasing them?

 

[freightdogfred]

Anyone think it's ironic that on the 5 year anniversary of Sully successfully putting a crippled Airbus into the Hudson saving everyone on board we have folks on here actually defending to Airline pilots with a combines 28 years at SW that couldn't find the correct airport in VFR conditions. even student pilots would have some explaining to do.

Gross negligence plain and simple

Sully had no choice. He was gonna land with 10 miles, and he chose the longest strip he had in sight. The SWA crew made a mistake, albeit a big one. I'm actually kinda impressed they got the airplane stopped. I guess I kinda feel for them, as I said before, I've made the exact same error but recognized it prior to landing and recovered. They weren't the first to make this mistake and they won't be the last. The irony is all the rock throwing going on in here.

 

[Flopgut]

Talk about negligence:

http://news.yahoo.com/asiana-crash-aftermath-video-shows-firefighters-warned-teen-233002390.html

Are other firefighters throwing these guys under the bus on some firefighter forum? Seriously, I don't know? Maybe, maybe not. But "gross negligence" in Branson? Idk? It was an error, but thankfully no casualties. It would probably be a better use of our time to call for more disciplined CFR than throw the SWA crew under the bus.

 

[densoo]

Have you ever operated at 250 knots below 10,000?
Have you ever thrown the gear or operated the flaps at maximum placarded speed?
Have you ever had a rest period reduced to only 8 hours?

You ever been in a cockpit before?
Ever hang around a gymnasium?
Ever been in a Turkish prison?

http://youtu.be/n2A194yTWoQ

 

[waveflyer]

Naw, we're just tired of watching people push the envelope, with predictable results. You're only half an ego away from being as dangerous as the guy you were criticizing a few posts back.

Eh go fish on that flame

 

[eaglesview]

Talk about negligence:

http://news.yahoo.com/asiana-crash-aftermath-video-shows-firefighters-warned-teen-233002390.html

Are other firefighters throwing these guys under the bus on some firefighter forum? Seriously, I don't know? Maybe, maybe not. But "gross negligence" in Branson? Idk? It was an error, but thankfully no casualties. It would probably be a better use of our time to call for more disciplined CFR than throw the SWA crew under the bus.

Apples and oranges "Co worker" flops. I like to think we go through more to become airline pilots than do fire fighters. For the near future we will all be the butt of jokes as the passengers board making comments about "do we know where we are going." These two obviously had no SA which means they had nothing in the box to verify where the hell they were. This is a very basic requirement where we work.(is on the Airbus anyway) It is also plain common sense. I do not mind defending our profession from misguided greedy management. I do mind defending our profession from grossly negligent bonehead maneuvers like this by one of our own.

 

[Newkem]

Luck

SWA IMHO is like a CAT who has used up 8 of 9 lives. How much longer can they get away with their feisty little mistakes?

 

[Flopgut]

For the near future we will all be the butt of jokes as the passengers board making comments about "do we know where we are going."

That would be welcome banter over what I've had to hear the last couple years from customers. Previous to our becoming "co workers" I had quite a few happy people back there. Anyway... There is a little more going on here than these two having their heads up and locked. You ever been into PLK? I have, a lot. Read the first link I posted showing all the airlines that have had this happen. It's an equal opportunity error.

 

[eaglesview]

That would be welcome banter over what I've had to hear the last couple years from customers. Previous to our becoming "co workers" I had quite a few happy people back there. Anyway... There is a little more going on here than these two having their heads up and locked. You ever been into PLK? I have, a lot. Read the first link I posted showing all the airlines that have had this happen. It's an equal opportunity error.

The error cannot if you are following SOP's. I know what you mean about having happy passengers before we were "co workers." I'm over that now. We are UCH pilots and both have a management team that has managed to wreck two airlines. here's hoping for a turn around soon.

 

[densoo]

We are UCH pilots and both have a management team that has managed to wreck two airlines.

Ain't that the truth!