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SWA lands at wrong Branson Airport

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Branson will possibly end up a special airport in the near term. And it probably should be. I don't know how SWA does special airports, but at cal there were many. Some were a bit unlikely, like Birmingham, AL. Unfortunately for us, in the last few weeks cal special airport protocol got changed by the brain surgeons. God help us.
 
eaglesview said:
Can't agree with that. It will never happen if you land on the runway at the end of the localizer, RNAV approach, VOR radial or just the extended centerline. To land at the wrong airport means they were using zero back up for SA. Call it like it is.....this was gross negligence.

We all make mistakes but not to this magnitude.
Click to expand...
It's pretty obvious the only backups they had here were gps and fms visual to runway. That being said, if the fms map is not in the lowest scale, two very close runways can be super imposed over each other.
 
"two very close runways can be super imposed over each other"................

Not likely.... eight miles is quite significant when the aircraft position indicator is off course. The distance off course is displayed digitally at the bottom of the course line.
Put it on the 160 scale and you are still off course. A two second cross check would have verified the deviation.

__________________
 
Sparse said:
It's pretty obvious the only backups they had here were gps and fms visual to runway. That being said, if the fms map is not in the lowest scale, two very close runways can be super imposed over each other.
Click to expand...

FMS and GPS normally have DME to the next fix. At some point that would have been the runway. As far as scale is concerned, use the appropriate scale. Still no excuse.
 
http://www.faircitynews.com/2014/01/15/no-bkg-campaign-launched-by-taney-co-airport-yakov/

Yes, this comic from 30 years ago is actually still alive and well, doing shows in Branson. Of note in the article is the FAA taking steps to further describe the airport environment. Picture pages would have helped. You all know the ones that show a VFR photo of each runway approach and includes large print, plane English descriptions of other airports in the area? Usually has wording like "do not confuse Point Lookout with Branson airport".

This one has got to be a joke:

http://www.faircitynews.com/2014/01...s-8-bonus-miles-for-landing-at-wrong-airport/
 
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FAA Identifier: PLK

Elevation: 940 ft. / 286.5 m



FAA Identifier: BBG
Elevation: 1302 ft. / 397 m

Descended almost 400 below "briefed" field elevation.
 
Sparse said:
It's pretty obvious the only backups they had here were gps and fms visual to runway. That being said, if the fms map is not in the lowest scale, two very close runways can be super imposed over each other.
Click to expand...


KBBG has an RNAV approach to RWY 14 which has a FAF, and is in the FMS data base. KPLK isn't even in the database, so it would not even come up on the FMS map. If you're not reducing the scale on your map when entering a terminal area, then you just aren't using your equipment properly. It has a range selector for a reason.
 
eaglesview said:
Anyone think it's ironic that on the 5 year anniversary of Sully successfully putting a crippled Airbus into the Hudson saving everyone on board we have folks on here actually defending to Airline pilots with a combines 28 years at SW that couldn't find the correct airport in VFR conditions. even student pilots would have some explaining to do.

Gross negligence plain and simple
Click to expand...


If memory serves, didn't some a-hole from American give an interview in USA today after the ValuJet crash, talking about low quality pilots or something, only to have Cali happen just a little later? Or do I have that wrong?


The guy who thinks it will never happen to him is the most dangerous.
 
livin'thesim said:
If memory serves, didn't some a-hole from American give an interview in USA today after the ValuJet crash, talking about low quality pilots or something, only to have Cali happen just a little later? Or do I have that wrong?


The guy who thinks it will never happen to him is the most dangerous.
Click to expand...


Except ValuJet had nothing to do with pilot error.
 
If SWA used the IAN approach capability of the airplane, you would get ILS-like indications in the cockpit. This crew would have had full-scale deviations for both Final Approach Course and Glidepath. IAN isn't fool-proof, but about as close as it gets.

I really don't understand the logic of dumbing down the airplanes. IAN would do much to reduce the number of unstabilized approaches, overruns, and this latest rash of buffoonery.
 
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Ty Webb said:
I really don't understand the logic of dumbing down the airplanes. IAN would do much to reduce the number of unstabilized approaches, overruns, and this latest rash of buffoonery.
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, that's why
 
Still waiting from a SW guy, do all of your aircraft have RAAS onboard? Even without the approach in the box they should have heard they were approaching the wrong runway......
 
RLAblows said:
KBBG has an RNAV approach to RWY 14 which has a FAF, and is in the FMS data base. KPLK isn't even in the database, so it would not even come up on the FMS map. If you're not reducing the scale on your map when entering a terminal area, then you just aren't using your equipment properly. It has a range selector for a reason.
Click to expand...

Over my career flying Honeywell FMS (MD88,757/767, B777, CE 680) and other FMS with a Honeywell map display, I can tell you there are those who do not scale the map down when they should. I am just saying you could follow the magenta line to the wrong airport if the map is scaled such that the airports are either superimposed or very blurred together.
 
CBS evening news just reported that ATC warned the inbound Branson flight that they were "off course". They also said that neither pilot had been there at night.
 
"The pilots said the approach had been programmed into the plane's flight management system, but that they saw the bright runway lights of Clark Downtown Airport and flew a visual approach into what they mistakenly believed to be Branson Airport."

Hmm. This is harder to defend. Having the approach loaded into the box, but neither pilot is paying attention to it? Not good.
 
Mamma said:
You should read the book "Sky Gods.". Pay special attention to the problems Pan Am had with captains who could do no wrong.

As to how many mistakes are ok, the answer is simple: as many as you can mitigate. I have yet to fly the perfect flight and I make mistakes. I catch most of them and the other pilot catches the few I miss. (the goal is to mitigate in the flight deck vs ATC or an incident!) This is why we stress effective CRM and pilot monitoring. Nobody is perfect and I highly doubt you bring an "A" game every time. Everyone needs to remember one thing when these things happens: There is always a chain of events that lead up to an incident. Multiple people have an opportunity to break a link and prevent an incident. So, that being said, if the pilots did not willfully violate policy or purposely act reckless, they should not be hung out alone to dry by armchair quarterbacks.
Click to expand...


You don't hear what I'm saying, you want this to be about me but it's not

I submit the only acceptable mistakes are the ones that don't get you violated. I've made plenty ....but this debate is about private pilot stuff. Remember the first cross country. Solo? Remember checking your VFR sectional to be sure the railroad tracks were where they were suppose to be ? Or how about the airport?

What happened to planning a VDP? If airport EL was 1300 WTF?

And what about the FIX page.? DME is DME ain't it?
 
FO had been with Southwest since 2001? How long is the upgrade currently or do many just pass it up for QOL.
 
waveflyer said:
Except Fox

Always trust fox

Fair and balanced
Click to expand...



Another lib offended by their great satan, Fox news. But of course you always trust msnbc,abc,nbc, cbs, new york times, los angeles times, etc.etc., because those guys are an arm of your beloved dumbocrat party.
 
Even on a visual it is prudent and by some operators required to monitor an electronic glideslope if available...a tuned ILS whether visual or not is an early indicator of something not going right
 
inline said:
Another lib offended by their great satan, Fox news. But of course you always trust msnbc,abc,nbc, cbs, new york times, los angeles times, etc.etc., because those guys are an arm of your beloved dumbocrat party.
Click to expand...

That's right....anyone who doesn't follow the gospel according to Fox or Rush is a lib....and anyone who doesn't believe in Maddow and MSM are angry old rich white guys..They are all full of sheeeet...repubs, dems....blah, blah, blah...they have an agenda sans reporting factual news...follow the money for the real agenda....don't have to hold your nose and choose...stay independent ...try doing your own thinking instead of listening to all the bubbleheads....they really all are idiots which doesn't speak well for those of us who believe in their dribble
 

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