SWA lands at wrong Branson Airport

[scoreboardII]

On one hand I truly hope these guys keep their jobs because from the outside, It appears that the swa culture is easily described by their taxi speed and that's a company problem. On the other hand, my career depends on each of us getting it right every time. If you're too lazy to string an approach and verify where you are, you need to find another job.
I hope that swa will slow their taxi speed a little?

I never knew taxi speed resulted in landing at the wrong airport. Thanks for the wisdom. Be careful how you respond.

 

[4day]

Barring egregious disregard of SOPs I'd think a tailor-made LOFT with some OE with a line check ought to do it. Of course getting the POI to buy off on it is necessary and they are often political animals.
One thing for sure, you've got two pilots who'll never do that again.

There has been 2 guys in recent months, on the Airtran side ( aka dying vine), that have been fired by SW Mgt for issues completely unrelated to flying. There actions where stupid but didn't have anything to do with the lives of pax and loss of a hull. If these guys get OE and a slap on the wrist it will defiantly set up for problems in the future. I don't know how this happened but everyone here has a pretty damn good idea.

 

[densoo]

I never knew taxi speed resulted in landing at the wrong airport. Thanks for the wisdom. Be careful how you respond.

It's disconcerting to think someone fails to see how pushing the envelope is disconnected from a greater risk of exceeding the envelope, and that pushing the envelope in one area (taxi) cannot be connected to an exceedence in another area (landing).

 

[HowardBorden]

It's disconcerting to think someone fails to see how pushing the envelope is disconnected from a greater risk of exceeding the envelope, and that pushing the envelope in one area (taxi) cannot be connected to an exceedence in another area (landing).

If you equate pushing the envelope to complying with FOM taxi guidelines in an FAA approved document then you are correct, I fail to see how that is connected in any way to disregarding company procedures in the landing phase.

 

[densoo]

If you equate pushing the envelope to complying with FOM taxi guidelines in an FAA approved document then you are correct, I fail to see how that is connected in any way to disregarding company procedures in the landing phase.

Yes, keep repeating that. It may help. Operating to the limit of all guidelines at all times is the common sense way to approach safety. If they didn't want us to go right up to the limits then why would they write them down for us to know what they are? I assume you also accept unlimited MELs because, hey, if they say it's legal it must be safe.

 

[The Prussian]

Was there a jump seater also in the cockpit?

Yes...AP now reporting that there was a Dispatcher on the jumpseat.

 

[Dan Roman]

I never knew taxi speed resulted in landing at the wrong airport. Thanks for the wisdom. Be careful how you respond.

Actually it's along the lines of a good landing starts with a good approach. I.E how you conduct every phase of your flight is, in fact, connected.
If you are of the mindset that beating the crap out of the passengers to save a minute or 2 on the taxiway, it stands to reason that you would also be in a hurry and more vulnerable to mistakes once airborne.
Now that said, WE ALL LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES! This could happen to anyone. It's pretty weak to start pointing fingers when something goes wrong. Everyone one of us has made mistakes. It's the ones that think they are above other pilots mistakes tend to be the really weak ones you gotta watch.

 

[Dan Roman]

If you equate pushing the envelope to complying with FOM taxi guidelines in an FAA approved document then you are correct, I fail to see how that is connected in any way to disregarding company procedures in the landing phase.

Howie, you really don't see how being in a hurry up mode can increase the likelihood of a mistake?

 

[waveflyer]

Taxi speed?

You guys are dumb and just mad we don't play your paid by the minute game

 

[waveflyer]

It's the ones that think they are above other pilots mistakes tend to be the really weak ones you gotta watch.

Well said

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Taxi speed?

You guys are dumb and just mad we don't play your paid by the minute game

Yes, some of us will miss the paid by the minute. Especially while we're sitting around with the door closed waiting on bags and having to give the company free minutes. At over $4 a minute on premium trips, I've enjoyed a large bonus the last few months thanks to ramp inefficiencies. Early on, it was frustrating and embarrassing, however, my care meter hasn't been in the green for some time now and it's kind of pleasurable just sitting back and watching.

BTW, since I'm paid by the minute, go-arounds make me money. Slowing down to ensure being properly briefed and configured make me money. Being SAFE makes me money. Fortunately, I doubt I'll change my personal habits once the paid by the minute goes away, however it understandable how a culture of paid by the leg (I know there are variables and that change this), encourages cutting corners. I've been there, done that, and seen it at my previous commuter.

 

[eaglesview]

Actually it's along the lines of a good landing starts with a good approach. I.E how you conduct every phase of your flight is, in fact, connected.
If you are of the mindset that beating the crap out of the passengers to save a minute or 2 on the taxiway, it stands to reason that you would also be in a hurry and more vulnerable to mistakes once airborne.
Now that said, WE ALL LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES! This could happen to anyone. It's pretty weak to start pointing fingers when something goes wrong. Everyone one of us has made mistakes. It's the ones that think they are above other pilots mistakes tend to be the really weak ones you gotta watch.

Can't agree with that. It will never happen if you land on the runway at the end of the localizer, RNAV approach, VOR radial or just the extended centerline. To land at the wrong airport means they were using zero back up for SA. Call it like it is.....this was gross negligence.

We all make mistakes but not to this magnitude.

 

[HowardBorden]

Howie, you really don't see how being in a hurry up mode can increase the likelihood of a mistake?

That's just it, I rarely see anyone in a hurry. You guys all like to harp on taxi speeds but the simple truth is our approved taxi speeds are most likely faster than other operators. You can talk about them all you want but they are not "fast" as long as they are approved, they are just different.

And yes, I would agree with you about "hurrying" increasing exposure if I consistently witnessed folks in a hurry on our flight decks but that is not my experience.

 

[diceman]

...We'll get you to Branson soon as safely as possible . Then the thanks for flying with us enjoy your stay in the Branson area or wherever we decide to take you

HAHAHAHAHA!! That's funny I don't care WHO you are!

 

[Little G-Force]

Can someone say "bid avoid"^^^^

Go on capt america, do your thing-
You're the guy who will be trying to bring his A game so hard you'll miss a hundred things- and your flying partner is rolling their eyes at you.

I stand by everything I said- your attitude is dangerous and common in incidences and accidents.

Again, using this as a reminder to fight complacency is a LOT different than the superiority complex you got on display.
Humility is as necessary as confidence in flying

(Attack on SWA? I don't give a rats ass about that)

You are consistent in one way...your vitriol. I. Have a solid opinion that many would support. You? You try to insult your way into reason. Doesn't. Work. It's easy to land at the airport you are dispatched to ...It is very Fukien easy......no I won't insult you.

 

[Little G-Force]

Can't agree with that. It will never happen if you land on the runway at the end of the localizer, RNAV approach, VOR radial or just the extended centerline. To land at the wrong airport means they were using zero back up for SA. Call it like it is.....this was gross negligence.

We all make mistakes but not to this magnitude.

Wave runner. Thinks we are all pompous A holes. For demanding a minimum level of command competence. Poor guy. Joe passenger deserves it.

 

[HowardBorden]

Yes, keep repeating that. It may help. Operating to the limit of all guidelines at all times is the common sense way to approach safety. If they didn't want us to go right up to the limits then why would they write them down for us to know what they are? I assume you also accept unlimited MELs because, hey, if they say it's legal it must be safe.

Have you ever operated at 250 knots below 10,000?
Have you ever thrown the gear or operated the flaps at maximum placarded speed?
Have you ever had a rest period reduced to only 8 hours?

The limits are in place to delineate the line for which a safe operation crosses from safe to unsafe or a legal operation becomes illegal. The safe side of either is exactly that, the safe side. I am not advocating operating at the maximum limits at all times, I'm simply saying that to do so has been deemed safe and legal by the folks making the rules governing our profession.

 

[DCAA320]

As for being heads down, if you can't change a landing runway in any FMS in 15 seconds during flight, than you should not be flying the airplane that FMS is attached to. And if you can't find 15 seconds on approach to dedicate to that change, then you should not be flying that approach.

Should take less than 15 seconds, as little as 4 keystrokes, at worse, throw the airport in the fix page, 5 keystrokes to give u DME.

 

[waveflyer]

You put periods in weird places little G

Look. It's a. Mentality thing. The crew. Did a. Boneheaded thing- but none of. Us know. All the. Factors - I'm not saying it's acceptable, I'm saying the disease of thinking it can't happen to you and jumping on the crew smugly is wasted energy.

You are coming to wrong conclusions about my opinion. I'm reserving judgement until I know more and trying to have a conversation about heads down programming.

I wish the crew had been on it. But I'm glad they were on it well enough to stop the aircraft in time.

You can't see it, but your embarrassing (or tragic) day is coming with that mentality. It's been proven over and over -

 

[Little G-Force]

You put periods in weird places little G

Look. It's a. Mentality thing. The crew. Did a. Boneheaded thing- but none of. Us know. All the. Factors - I'm not saying it's acceptable, I'm saying the disease of thinking it can't happen to you and jumping on the crew smugly is wasted energy.

You are coming to wrong conclusions about my opinion. I'm reserving judgement until I know more and trying to have a conversation about heads down programming.

I wish the crew had been on it. But I'm glad they were on it well enough to stop the aircraft in time.

You can't see it, but your embarrassing (or tragic) day is coming with that mentality. It's been proven over and over -

Damn iPad keyboard mr wave.. There are divergent views on this. There has to be strict adherence to SOPs. Why do you keep bringing me up as you keep referring to my career . I would never cast dispersions on you , for I know you not. I go around. If it is not right. Now we all know what right is. So I'm sure we will find out why but as one guy said. Training departments now have the task in recurrent to reinforce safe practices. So this never happens again or there is no loss of life for using the short wrong runway at an unauthorized airport .