SWA lands at wrong Branson Airport

[scoreboardII]

While little to nothing will be done about our operational issues at places like MDW (it's the polar vortex's fault!, not a management failure!), this will result in many new procedures, probably long past due. IAN, Required runway in FMC, callouts, briefings, etc.

In their defense, lets say they were hooked up FMC wise using the stuff, anyone notice that from the North the two runways do tend to align and if you were glancing at the Magenta for backup, you would be pretty close depending on range scale. And lighting looks similar. Not making excuses, just saying.

 

[Toecutter]

While little to nothing will be done about our operational issues at places like MDW (it's the polar vortex's fault!, not a management failure!), this will result in many new procedures, probably long past due. IAN, Required runway in FMC, callouts, briefings, etc.

In their defense, lets say they were hooked up FMC wise using the stuff, anyone notice that from the North the two runways do tend to align and if you were glancing at the Magenta for backup, you would be pretty close depending on range scale. And lighting looks similar. Not making excuses, just saying.

If you were talking about MCO or DFW I think you would have a case, but for runways that are nine miles apart, that's a hard sell. Just saying.

 

[scoreboardII]

Agreed, just throwing a bone to the could happen to anyone crowd.

 

[dollacrackho]

Don't you notice on short final how ridiculously short the runways looks? I know it was night but 3700ft still has to look pretty freakin short.

 

[MINIME]

My takeaway: many nights to dark and desolate airports...controllers want to pimp u to take a visual, or...they vector u close in base 1500' inside FAF. No more...on initial contact, ATC will get the ATIS code and request vectors OUTSIDE FAF for the visual (if no FAF; 7 mi final off extended runway). ATC coffee break will have to wait another two min.

Sorry for the crew and keeping my fingers crossed that they keep their jobs

My thoughts precisely. I cringe when I see controllers trying to vector me inside the FAF. And, I hate it when they constantly keep asking if we have the airport in sight. Vector us to final and, when we're straightened out maybe we'll see it!

IAN would be very useful in foreign countries like Mexico and other countries in Central and South America. Let's see shall we; mountainous terrain, language barriers, confusing DME arcs into non precision approaches with step downs. All this in what is for most of us unfamiliar territory. It's my understanding that with IAN you simply press APP and she flies it like an ILS. No matter what type of approach might be available; non GS ILS, LOC, LOC BC, RNAV. It's suppose to simplify and declutter the approach segment of the flight. No building anything nor figuring out descent rates or VDPs. Thus, giving pilots more time to monitor and maintain situational awareness.

All this being said, I truly do feel for the crew. This career can be like walking through a war zone while avoiding being shot.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Well,

Before the Luvbirds swarm and jump on my post....this could happen to anybody. I'd be lying if I haven't had that "Hey, is that the right runway" moment outside my window a few times in my career.

Glass houses was brought up earlier....let's refrain from the windcheck and taxiway landing stuff for awhile and do what's right......pick on General Lee!!

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Who is the approach facility and was Bransons tower open?

 

[LJ45]

C'mon man...at least they were "on Speed" and landed in the "zone"

If not, they wouldn't have stopped:beer:

 

[livin'thesim]

Incidents like these are possible for any of us, with just the right planetary alignment of fatigue, expectations, visual perception error, etc, etc.

Hope they keep their jobs.

 

[scoreboardII]

Don't you notice on short final how ridiculously short the runways looks? I know it was night but 3700ft still has to look pretty freakin short.

I'm sure no more freaky than rwy 08 at BUR looking into a mountain at the other end.

 

[TMMT]

In their defense, lets say they were hooked up FMC wise using the stuff, anyone notice that from the North the two runways do tend to align and if you were glancing at the Magenta for backup, you would be pretty close depending on range scale. And lighting looks similar. Not making excuses, just saying.

I've seen many diving for runway 32 in Smyrna TN, only to power up and climb out when they realized it wasn't 31 at Nashville just a few short miles north.

It happens more than ever gets reported.

 

[Toecutter]

My thoughts precisely. I cringe when I see controllers trying to vector me inside the FAF. And, I hate it when they constantly keep asking if we have the airport in sight. Vector us to final and, when we're straightened out maybe we'll see it!

IAN would be very useful in foreign countries like Mexico and other countries in Central and South America. Let's see shall we; mountainous terrain, language barriers, confusing DME arcs into non precision approaches with step downs. All this in what is for most of us unfamiliar territory. It's my understanding that with IAN you simply press APP and she flies it like an ILS. No matter what type of approach might be available; non GS ILS, LOC, LOC BC, RNAV. It's suppose to simplify and declutter the approach segment of the flight. No building anything nor figuring out descent rates or VDPs. Thus, giving pilots more time to monitor and maintain situational awareness.

All this being said, I truly do feel for the crew. This career can be like walking through a war zone while avoiding being shot.

Yes, it's that easy. You set it up just like an ILS, extend the line, press App and fly it just like an ILS. No guess work and no building. And its being taken out of every 737 that crosses over to SWA.( Along with ACARS Aero Data, Autoland, and printers.) I'm sure if most RSW line pilots had a chance to use this stuff, they would approve, but you have too many Dr. Zaius type people over there that keep on trying to seal the cave.

 

[scoreboardII]

Hey!, You seal the cave so the dinosaurs can't get in!

 

[freightdogfred]

That said it cannot happen to anyone. Because there are tens of thousands who have more cockpit discipline

Ok tuff guy... I'm guessing you're one of the tens of thousands.

Everyone makes mistakes. It's a human factor of the equation. If your "cockpit discipline" inclines you to believe you can't or won't please advertise your avatar on the PA prior to departure on the odd chance I'm onboard so I can head for the exit. You want hit that captain in the mouth? I'd have loved to see that one. The guy fukked up royal but didn't slide off the end. It could have been way worse. I've been flying a long time but have not yet met the guy who walks on water.

 

[RLAblows]

Ok tuff guy... I'm guessing you're one of the tens of thousands.

Everyone makes mistakes. It's a human factor of the equation. If your "cockpit discipline" inclines you to believe you can't or won't please advertise your avatar on the PA prior to departure on the odd chance I'm onboard so I can head for the exit. You want hit that captain in the mouth? I'd have loved to see that one. The guy fukked up royal but didn't slide off the end. It could have been way worse. I've been flying a long time but have not yet met the guy who walks on water.

I never make misteaks!

 

[waveflyer]

My thoughts exactly freight dog

Most of these superiority complex bitches are a pain in the ass to fly with. Smug but can't fly out of a paper bag.

Aviation history is written in blood fellas. Your "discipline" comes from mistakes like these. Your energy is better spent humbly learning from what they did than walking around smug that it'll never happen to you.

You're exactly the one it will happen to.

As for no visuals inside the marker?
C'mon-
That violates every part of my turboprop background-

There's nothing unsafe about visuals and sidesteps- just back things up-

Now, if you need the time- go ahead and take it and feel good about that- but maybe some of these guys that can't work the fms without an insane amount of time and energy devoted to it, should practice more and get proficient with an integral part of the airplane-

We had the opposite discussion when Asiana happened.
For our 5-figure salaries and to respect the profession and be really good at ALL aspects of flying. Where you're weak, be humble and wise enough to get to work on it- whether it's hand-flying or quick programming an fms -
I'm not throwing our training under the bus for the "heads down" issues- they are in fact issues- the solution then is to get pilots more familiar with the fms and train them on it until they are proficient.
Ever take a check ride with a capt who doesn't program much in that role and just let go of any knowledge they ever had on it- when they have to quick re-program it can take forever and this scenario is probably why that's a problem.

What's funny is they're the ones who will tell you not to go heads down-
It's like "man, this doesn't equate to a distraction for me, just bc it's one for you- and I like my needles and info going to the same spot"

 

[PCL_128]

but maybe some of these guys that can't work the fms without an insane amount of time and energy devoted to it, should practice more and get proficient with an integral part of the airplane-

Or maybe they're over the age of 60 and shouldn't be there anyway. Just sayin'.....

 

[livin'thesim]

Or maybe they're over the age of 60 and shouldn't be there anyway. Just sayin'.....

The only intelligent thing you've said since...

well, ever.

It's a start, PCL, it's a start.

 

[Old Crow]

On one hand I truly hope these guys keep their jobs because from the outside, It appears that the swa culture is easily described by their taxi speed and that's a company problem. On the other hand, my career depends on each of us getting it right every time. If you're too lazy to string an approach and verify where you are, you need to find another job.
I hope that swa will slow their taxi speed a little…

 

[Little G-Force]

Ok tuff guy... I'm guessing you're one of the tens of thousands.

Everyone makes mistakes. It's a human factor of the equation. If your "cockpit discipline" inclines you to believe you can't or won't please advertise your avatar on the PA prior to departure on the odd chance I'm onboard so I can head for the exit. You want hit that captain in the mouth? I'd have loved to see that one. The guy fukked up royal but didn't slide off the end. It could have been way worse. I've been flying a long time but have not yet met the guy who walks on water.[/


this is an issue with two extreme different views. Never said you can't make mistakes. I preach and practice CRM. But this one and Marvin renslows in buffalo. Are the unpardonable ones. Death was just a few yards away

This was an epic failure of cockpit discipline just like Asiana. Air. No free get out of jail cards. No pats on the back. And don't try to put every airline pilot in the same boat . This is as egregious as the comair Lexington disaster .

Tough cookies. It's my opinion. I could never fly passengers again knowing I almost killed 124 . It's over. Find a new career.
This is an opinion only .