SWA lands at wrong Branson Airport

[HAZ-MAT]

Co-pilot leans over and whispers... "wanna get away?"

 

[Mikes Apartment]

Carpe Vacay?

 

[Capn Butthead]

I think all of us Corn Dogs all know it was a huge screw up and unacceptable....as every other pilot from every other airline will say. Especially in a NG. I feel bad for the guys but they f$&ked up...hate to say it but they'll most likely be fired and SWAPA can't do much. I'm not one of these my airline is better than yours schmuck so I won't even go there. After all the management screw ups with massive reroutes and long days I'm surprised we didn't have more screw ups in the past few weeks. Good luck to these guys...they'll need it.

 

[waveflyer]

this can and continues to almost happen to quite a few crews across the entire database of participants. Always set the approach or visual for the runway and verify the magenta line takes you to the same place as you see in the window.

Karma police living up to his name. Well said man

I guess I'm considered a usual SWA suspect- but you want me to defend them? Throw them under the bus and Monday morning qtrback it w/ almost no info?

C'mon

At this point the only productive conversation I can see having is how many capts have had me not quickly reprogram the fms if we get a change so we aren't distracted close to the airport. (Isn't that a big point from "children of the magenta"?) As much as I believe in keeping simple things simple- ie: take the jet, land there- To me it's more distracting for my OCD to not program it in-

No idea what happened, but maybe these pilots were convinced they saw the airport and got a runway assignment different than they briefed- if so- this is what happens without that habit- but even check airman have chimed in to not be heads down typing in certain scenarios- now let's say an ils isn't available and what do you have backing yourself up?

I'm positive there are always multiple factors that lead to this-

Ditto, on the glass house. What an embarrassing nightmare and I hope I learn from them as well

 

[waveflyer]

I have been asked if these guys will get fired.

Unless there's more to the story, I hope not. For the reason above about fms programming culture. This is embarrassing, but it's not landing on the nose wheel

 

[Scoot 11]

Ditto, on the glass house. What an embarrassing nightmare and I hope I learn from them as well

Well said Wave. This could be anyone at any airline!:beer: Glass houses!

 

[Ty Webb]

I, too, do not understand how this happens with everything we have available to us.

A "visual" approach is just an IAP with a prettier view. Unless you're going into LBB.

I do congratulate them for not allowing that plane to go over the dropoff . . . the outcome would have been much, much different.

As for flying it out of there . . . . hell yeah, it will do that! Change the tires and brakes, and I'll volunteer to do it, just for sh!ts and g!ggles.

 

[Golden Falcon]

fms programming stuff aside...doesnt anybody tune and identify and at least crosscheck navaid/ils indications against magenta line on an ND (green if you're a bus person)??

 

[Muppets]

fms programming stuff aside...doesnt anybody tune and identify and at least crosscheck navaid/ils indications against magenta line on an ND (green if you're a bus person)??

Agreed. Another useful tool would be 1 of the 10 DME indications on the -700. These clowns give all of us a bad name. All over the news....neighbor already asked me about it. Jesus

 

[Little G-Force]

I was thinking the same thing. That being said, I agree that it can happen to anyone. After the 5th day of 4 legs a night flying night freight I set up to land at AAf Biggs instead of El Paso. Granted, they are closer to each other with the exact same runway layout, it's still no excuse. If you always set up for an instrument approach, you always land on the right runway. It's what saved me that morning.

That said it cannot happen to anyone. Because there are tens of thousands who have more cockpit discipline

 

[PCL_128]

I won't criticize the crew for the same reason wave mentioned: the training departments industry-wide have been telling people for years to "fly the airplane" and not be heads down.

So, instead of criticizing the crew, I'll criticize the training departments. It's time to stop the macho bull$hit and admit that automation and technology is what has been driving down accident and incident statistics for the past few decades. Instead of telling pilots not to be heads down, instead tell them to extend the downwind and program the box the right way instead of being in a hurry to just do the approach. There is zero reason to not insist on having every approach in the box on today's aircraft. This incident easily could have resulted in the deaths of everyone on board if the crew wasn't smart enough to slam on their breaks really fast and really hard. That drop at the end of that runway would have been deadly, and it looks like it was only a couple hundred feet away. The crew deserves credit for saving everyone's ass. The philosophy of not always programming the box is what deserves blame.

 

[Ty Webb]

There is zero reason to not insist on having every approach in the box on today's aircraft.

Absolutely true. If you don't have time to load it and brief it, you are likely too rushed to be making the approach anyway.

 

[LandGreen]

My takeaway: many nights to dark and desolate airports...controllers want to pimp u to take a visual, or...they vector u close in base 1500' inside FAF. No more...on initial contact, ATC will get the ATIS code and request vectors OUTSIDE FAF for the visual (if no FAF; 7 mi final off extended runway). ATC coffee break will have to wait another two min.

Sorry for the crew and keeping my fingers crossed that they keep their jobs

 

[Little G-Force]

I think all of us Corn Dogs all know it was a huge screw up and unacceptable....as every other pilot from every other airline will say. Especially in a NG. I feel bad for the guys but they f$&ked up...hate to say it but they'll most likely be fired and SWAPA can't do much. I'm not one of these my airline is better than yours schmuck so I won't even go there. After all the management screw ups with massive reroutes and long days I'm surprised we didn't have more screw ups in the past few weeks. Good luck to these guys...they'll need it.

Applause applause you nailed it and this
If I was joe passenger and my wife and newborn were on board I would have punched the captain not thanked him for almost killing me

 

[RLAblows]

"Don't worry folks I was an F-16 pilot in the Air Force, your in good hands!

"gutsiest move I ever saw man."

 

[ttuite]

I heard that the Captain was b1tching about "Gays, Grande, and Grannies all the way in....

 

[Critter717]

For the SWA guys:
How often do you use RNAV RNP?
Is there a requirement to back up a night visual approach with an instrument approach?

I have little doubt that updating the -700s to be able to utilize IAN would go quite a bit farther to increase the level of safety on a day to day basis than RNAV RNP. In particular, as the footprint of the operation expands outside of the continental United States.

In less than 12 months Southwest crews will be faced with flying into airports new to many pilots with language and local procedures that are different enough to cause problems.

My wagon is hitched to the success of SWA. I am interested in seeing every flight operated safely. This was a very close call. If you are not familiar with IAN ask an Airtran 737 guy or read a cut and pasted google search below.

Integrated Approach Navigation (IAN) is an approach option designed for airlines that want to use ILS-like pilot procedures, display features, and autopilot control laws for nonprecision (Category I) approaches. This option does not require additional ground facility support
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The FMC transmits IAN deviations to the autopilot and display system. The pilot procedures for IAN are derived from current ILS pilot procedures and are consistent for all approach types: Select the approach on the FMC control display unit, tune the appropriate station, and arm the autopilot approach mode. The IAN function supports the ILS for glideslope inoperative, localizer only, and backcourse approach types.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The IAN function will alert the crew to approach selection or tuning inconsistencies. For example, if an ILS station is tuned and an area navigation (RNAV) approach also is selected on the FMC, the flight crew will be alerted and the ILS approach mode will take precedence automatically, with the appropriate display format.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]While the IAN display (fig. 3) is similar to an ILS display, there are sufficient visual differences to ensure that the crew does not confuse a nonprecision IAN approach for a precision ILS or GLS approach (fig. 4). As on all nonprecision approaches, the altimeter is the primary method of ensuring that altitude constraints are honored.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Retrofit of this option involves software updates for the FMC, CDS, flight control computer, and digital flight data acquisition unit (DFDAU) and hardware and software updates for the EGPWS.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[SELCAL checks]

I bet you can't use IAN in the Classic.

 

[4day]

SW -800 tail strike in Vegas last week as well. Mexico here we come.

 

[Capn Butthead]

We are required like all airlines to have a radio back up to all approaches. Landing South at Branson there is only a gps approach so no radio back up...but they should've had the GPS up...that is something that will come out later I guess. It still sucks and we have a management group now that takes no accountability...not saying that has anything to do with this...but we have had our as$&s handed to us the past few weeks with long days and no rest because of poor operational control...yet they blame weather and part 117. The flights was an hour late through MDW (surprise! Holding for gates I'm sure) which means that they were landing at night instead of day...still no reason to mess this up but we've all been there...late, tired, frustrated and pissed off...this management needs to wake up...you can only run people to hard before they strike back or something like this happens...just my opinion.

 

[scoreboardII]

While little to nothing will be done about our operational issues at places like MDW (it's the polar vortex's fault!, not a management failure!), this will result in many new procedures, probably long past due. IAN, Required runway in FMC, callouts, briefings, etc.

In their defense, lets say they were hooked up FMC wise using the stuff, anyone notice that from the North the two runways do tend to align and if you were glancing at the Magenta for backup, you would be pretty close depending on range scale. And lighting looks similar. Not making excuses, just saying.

 

[Toecutter]

While little to nothing will be done about our operational issues at places like MDW (it's the polar vortex's fault!, not a management failure!), this will result in many new procedures, probably long past due. IAN, Required runway in FMC, callouts, briefings, etc.

In their defense, lets say they were hooked up FMC wise using the stuff, anyone notice that from the North the two runways do tend to align and if you were glancing at the Magenta for backup, you would be pretty close depending on range scale. And lighting looks similar. Not making excuses, just saying.

If you were talking about MCO or DFW I think you would have a case, but for runways that are nine miles apart, that's a hard sell. Just saying.

 

[scoreboardII]

Agreed, just throwing a bone to the could happen to anyone crowd.

 

[dollacrackho]

Don't you notice on short final how ridiculously short the runways looks? I know it was night but 3700ft still has to look pretty freakin short.

 

[MINIME]

My takeaway: many nights to dark and desolate airports...controllers want to pimp u to take a visual, or...they vector u close in base 1500' inside FAF. No more...on initial contact, ATC will get the ATIS code and request vectors OUTSIDE FAF for the visual (if no FAF; 7 mi final off extended runway). ATC coffee break will have to wait another two min.

Sorry for the crew and keeping my fingers crossed that they keep their jobs

My thoughts precisely. I cringe when I see controllers trying to vector me inside the FAF. And, I hate it when they constantly keep asking if we have the airport in sight. Vector us to final and, when we're straightened out maybe we'll see it!

IAN would be very useful in foreign countries like Mexico and other countries in Central and South America. Let's see shall we; mountainous terrain, language barriers, confusing DME arcs into non precision approaches with step downs. All this in what is for most of us unfamiliar territory. It's my understanding that with IAN you simply press APP and she flies it like an ILS. No matter what type of approach might be available; non GS ILS, LOC, LOC BC, RNAV. It's suppose to simplify and declutter the approach segment of the flight. No building anything nor figuring out descent rates or VDPs. Thus, giving pilots more time to monitor and maintain situational awareness.

All this being said, I truly do feel for the crew. This career can be like walking through a war zone while avoiding being shot.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Well,

Before the Luvbirds swarm and jump on my post....this could happen to anybody. I'd be lying if I haven't had that "Hey, is that the right runway" moment outside my window a few times in my career.

Glass houses was brought up earlier....let's refrain from the windcheck and taxiway landing stuff for awhile and do what's right......pick on General Lee!!

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Who is the approach facility and was Bransons tower open?

 

[LJ45]

C'mon man...at least they were "on Speed" and landed in the "zone"

If not, they wouldn't have stopped:beer:

 

[livin'thesim]

Incidents like these are possible for any of us, with just the right planetary alignment of fatigue, expectations, visual perception error, etc, etc.

Hope they keep their jobs.

 

[scoreboardII]

Don't you notice on short final how ridiculously short the runways looks? I know it was night but 3700ft still has to look pretty freakin short.

I'm sure no more freaky than rwy 08 at BUR looking into a mountain at the other end.