SWA lands at wrong Branson Airport

[ttuite]

I heard that the Captain was b1tching about "Gays, Grande, and Grannies all the way in....

 

[Critter717]

For the SWA guys:
How often do you use RNAV RNP?
Is there a requirement to back up a night visual approach with an instrument approach?

I have little doubt that updating the -700s to be able to utilize IAN would go quite a bit farther to increase the level of safety on a day to day basis than RNAV RNP. In particular, as the footprint of the operation expands outside of the continental United States.

In less than 12 months Southwest crews will be faced with flying into airports new to many pilots with language and local procedures that are different enough to cause problems.

My wagon is hitched to the success of SWA. I am interested in seeing every flight operated safely. This was a very close call. If you are not familiar with IAN ask an Airtran 737 guy or read a cut and pasted google search below.

Integrated Approach Navigation (IAN) is an approach option designed for airlines that want to use ILS-like pilot procedures, display features, and autopilot control laws for nonprecision (Category I) approaches. This option does not require additional ground facility support
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The FMC transmits IAN deviations to the autopilot and display system. The pilot procedures for IAN are derived from current ILS pilot procedures and are consistent for all approach types: Select the approach on the FMC control display unit, tune the appropriate station, and arm the autopilot approach mode. The IAN function supports the ILS for glideslope inoperative, localizer only, and backcourse approach types.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The IAN function will alert the crew to approach selection or tuning inconsistencies. For example, if an ILS station is tuned and an area navigation (RNAV) approach also is selected on the FMC, the flight crew will be alerted and the ILS approach mode will take precedence automatically, with the appropriate display format.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]While the IAN display (fig. 3) is similar to an ILS display, there are sufficient visual differences to ensure that the crew does not confuse a nonprecision IAN approach for a precision ILS or GLS approach (fig. 4). As on all nonprecision approaches, the altimeter is the primary method of ensuring that altitude constraints are honored.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Retrofit of this option involves software updates for the FMC, CDS, flight control computer, and digital flight data acquisition unit (DFDAU) and hardware and software updates for the EGPWS.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[SELCAL checks]

I bet you can't use IAN in the Classic.

 

[4day]

SW -800 tail strike in Vegas last week as well. Mexico here we come.

 

[Capn Butthead]

We are required like all airlines to have a radio back up to all approaches. Landing South at Branson there is only a gps approach so no radio back up...but they should've had the GPS up...that is something that will come out later I guess. It still sucks and we have a management group now that takes no accountability...not saying that has anything to do with this...but we have had our as$&s handed to us the past few weeks with long days and no rest because of poor operational control...yet they blame weather and part 117. The flights was an hour late through MDW (surprise! Holding for gates I'm sure) which means that they were landing at night instead of day...still no reason to mess this up but we've all been there...late, tired, frustrated and pissed off...this management needs to wake up...you can only run people to hard before they strike back or something like this happens...just my opinion.

 

[scoreboardII]

While little to nothing will be done about our operational issues at places like MDW (it's the polar vortex's fault!, not a management failure!), this will result in many new procedures, probably long past due. IAN, Required runway in FMC, callouts, briefings, etc.

In their defense, lets say they were hooked up FMC wise using the stuff, anyone notice that from the North the two runways do tend to align and if you were glancing at the Magenta for backup, you would be pretty close depending on range scale. And lighting looks similar. Not making excuses, just saying.

 

[Toecutter]

While little to nothing will be done about our operational issues at places like MDW (it's the polar vortex's fault!, not a management failure!), this will result in many new procedures, probably long past due. IAN, Required runway in FMC, callouts, briefings, etc.

In their defense, lets say they were hooked up FMC wise using the stuff, anyone notice that from the North the two runways do tend to align and if you were glancing at the Magenta for backup, you would be pretty close depending on range scale. And lighting looks similar. Not making excuses, just saying.

If you were talking about MCO or DFW I think you would have a case, but for runways that are nine miles apart, that's a hard sell. Just saying.

 

[scoreboardII]

Agreed, just throwing a bone to the could happen to anyone crowd.

 

[dollacrackho]

Don't you notice on short final how ridiculously short the runways looks? I know it was night but 3700ft still has to look pretty freakin short.

 

[MINIME]

My takeaway: many nights to dark and desolate airports...controllers want to pimp u to take a visual, or...they vector u close in base 1500' inside FAF. No more...on initial contact, ATC will get the ATIS code and request vectors OUTSIDE FAF for the visual (if no FAF; 7 mi final off extended runway). ATC coffee break will have to wait another two min.

Sorry for the crew and keeping my fingers crossed that they keep their jobs

My thoughts precisely. I cringe when I see controllers trying to vector me inside the FAF. And, I hate it when they constantly keep asking if we have the airport in sight. Vector us to final and, when we're straightened out maybe we'll see it!

IAN would be very useful in foreign countries like Mexico and other countries in Central and South America. Let's see shall we; mountainous terrain, language barriers, confusing DME arcs into non precision approaches with step downs. All this in what is for most of us unfamiliar territory. It's my understanding that with IAN you simply press APP and she flies it like an ILS. No matter what type of approach might be available; non GS ILS, LOC, LOC BC, RNAV. It's suppose to simplify and declutter the approach segment of the flight. No building anything nor figuring out descent rates or VDPs. Thus, giving pilots more time to monitor and maintain situational awareness.

All this being said, I truly do feel for the crew. This career can be like walking through a war zone while avoiding being shot.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Well,

Before the Luvbirds swarm and jump on my post....this could happen to anybody. I'd be lying if I haven't had that "Hey, is that the right runway" moment outside my window a few times in my career.

Glass houses was brought up earlier....let's refrain from the windcheck and taxiway landing stuff for awhile and do what's right......pick on General Lee!!

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Who is the approach facility and was Bransons tower open?

 

[LJ45]

C'mon man...at least they were "on Speed" and landed in the "zone"

If not, they wouldn't have stopped:beer:

 

[livin'thesim]

Incidents like these are possible for any of us, with just the right planetary alignment of fatigue, expectations, visual perception error, etc, etc.

Hope they keep their jobs.

 

[scoreboardII]

Don't you notice on short final how ridiculously short the runways looks? I know it was night but 3700ft still has to look pretty freakin short.

I'm sure no more freaky than rwy 08 at BUR looking into a mountain at the other end.