SWA lands at wrong Branson Airport

[fareview]

Agree with above.

Indefensible.

fv

 

[Citrusflyer]

We all know that there isn't just one thing that makes an accident/incident. The "error chain" is something that is familiar to all of us. The problem here is, in the last 12 months, SWA as a company has broken A LOT of links in the chain. Someone at Dallas Love needs to sit down and stop this - now! The next crew may not be so "lucky".

 

[dollacrackho]

Ok tuff guy... I'm guessing you're one of the tens of thousands.

Everyone makes mistakes. It's a human factor of the equation. If your "cockpit discipline" inclines you to believe you can't or won't please advertise your avatar on the PA prior to departure on the odd chance I'm onboard so I can head for the exit. You want hit that captain in the mouth? I'd have loved to see that one. The guy fukked up royal but didn't slide off the end. It could have been way worse. I've been flying a long time but have not yet met the guy who walks on water.[/


this is an issue with two extreme different views. Never said you can't make mistakes. I preach and practice CRM. But this one and Marvin renslows in buffalo. Are the unpardonable ones. Death was just a few yards away

This was an epic failure of cockpit discipline just like Asiana. Air. No free get out of jail cards. No pats on the back. And don't try to put every airline pilot in the same boat . This is as egregious as the comair Lexington disaster .

Tough cookies. It's my opinion. I could never fly passengers again knowing I almost killed 124 . It's over. Find a new career.
This is an opinion only .

I think you stole this directly out of my brain. Exactly what I was thinking. We battle complacency everyday. Events like this are a wake up call. Every flight we make to Podunk Illinois has consequences if we let complacency win. Watching that sole survivor show gave me chills because that comair flight couldn't happen to anyone. Half awake climbing into the cockpit at 4am . Operating on cruise control, going through the motions doing the same flight you've done a thousand times before. Then there you are screaming down the runway and it hits you. That comair crew ruined the lives of hundreds of people and that fo lives in a place worse than hell. I don't know how he carries on. That southwest flight could have killed a lot of people. The crew must answer to that. The battle against complacency is ongoing and is not easy. Some days are worse than others were all guilty of it. I fly with some people and they're playing the lottery every day. Just waiting for that day when the swiss cheese lines up right. This flight , the comair flight , the psa flight in Charleston , good examples to think about every time you push back from the gate.

 

[Saluki Dawg]

I used to not believe or subscribe to the FAA's definition of a distressed carrier status during a merger or acquisition. However, I don't think that any of us at WN or FL can deny that things have felt very distressed from an operational standpoint for the last 18-24 months or so and appears to be getting worse. I think that we can all learn something from these types of mishaps, and hope that we do, so that something like this doesn't happen again. I think that we can all agree that this has the potential to happen to any crew especially when landing at an unfamiliar Airport at night with no ground based approach. I personally always do some sort of RNAV GPS backup even when flying visually just because I'm paranoid and know that the same thing could happen to me. I hope that this crew does keep their job, as I think they will both be changed pilots if given another chance to prove themselves.

 

[densoo]

Can a 737 with min fuel, min crew & no pax or cargo get back in the air w/ 3700 feet of runway?

Looks like it.

http://youtu.be/XWxF7Tp5nCM

 

[Flying-Corporal]

Quote:
Originally Posted by freightdogfred
Ok tuff guy... I'm guessing you're one of the tens of thousands.

The guy fukked up royal but didn't slide off the end. It could have been way worse. I've been flying a long time but have not yet met the guy who walks on water.[/]

I always find it odd when people (and mostly media) say 'it could've been a lot worse'. Things always could be a lot worse.

 

[K-Mart]

Quote:
Originally Posted by freightdogfred
Ok tuff guy... I'm guessing you're one of the tens of thousands.

The guy fukked up royal but didn't slide off the end. It could have been way worse. I've been flying a long time but have not yet met the guy who walks on water.[/]

I always find it odd when people (and mostly media) say 'it could've been a lot worse'. Things always could be a lot worse.

Well said and things could always be better. But it is what it is.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Looks like it.

http://youtu.be/XWxF7Tp5nCM

What exactly is an "emergency takeoff"?

Bubba

 

[CorpCaptain]

Are all of SWA's aircraft equipped with RAAS?

 

[densoo]

What exactly is an "emergency takeoff"?

I think it's a corporate speak for a non-normal to get itself out of the news cycle.

 

[Flying-Corporal]

What exactly is an "emergency takeoff"?

Bubba

It's a normal takeoff that could turn into a real emergency.

 

[densoo]

What exactly is an "emergency takeoff"?

Maybe it's because the FAA had to approve it. Maybe the news media just has no idea what it's talking about like every time someone taxis onto the grass the plane "went off the runway OMG there were no injuries."

 

[Little G-Force]

My thoughts exactly freight dog

Most of these superiority complex bitches are a pain in the ass to fly with. Smug but can't fly out of a paper bag.

Aviation history is written in blood fellas. Your "discipline" comes from mistakes like these. Your energy is better spent humbly learning from what they did than walking around smug that it'll never happen to you.

You're exactly the one it will happen to.

As for no visuals inside the marker?
C'mon-
That violates every part of my turboprop background-

There's nothing unsafe about visuals and sidesteps- just back things up-

Now, if you need the time- go ahead and take it and feel good about that- but maybe some of these guys that can't work the fms without an insane amount of time and energy devoted to it, should practice more and get proficient with an integral part of the airplane-

We had the opposite discussion when Asiana happened.
For our 5-figure salaries and to respect the profession and be really good at ALL aspects of flying. Where you're weak, be humble and wise enough to get to work on it- whether it's hand-flying or quick programming an fms -
I'm not throwing our training under the bus for the "heads down" issues- they are in fact issues- the solution then is to get pilots more familiar with the fms and train them on it until they are proficient.
Ever take a check ride with a capt who doesn't program much in that role and just let go of any knowledge they ever had on it- when they have to quick re-program it can take forever and this scenario is probably why that's a problem.

What's funny is they're the ones who will tell you not to go heads down-
It's like "man, this doesn't equate to a distraction for me, just bc it's one for you- and I like my needles and info going to the same spot"

I find it amazing you and others want to dismiss the severity. There is no superiority complex, I take my command serious. If I don't see the airport or know for certain it is the right one I will go around or hold until I'm ready. This is much larger than SWA. It's about a coming to work with your A game every time.

If you think a certain number of mistakes as a captain are OK, please tell me which ones are? I'm dying to know as I'm sure others are. You're attitude comes from thinking this is an attack on SWA. It couldn't Be farther from the truth. This is about airmanship...

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Who is the approach facility and was Bransons tower open?

Branson (BKG) - airport of intended landing, is a private airport with airline ops. Has tower with non-FAA controllers. Springfield approach does vectors. Tower usually asks to report 2 mile final before issuing landing clearance.

 

[EL10]

Was there a jump seater also in the cockpit?

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

As for being heads down, if you can't change a landing runway in any FMS in 15 seconds during flight, than you should not be flying the airplane that FMS is attached to. And if you can't find 15 seconds on approach to dedicate to that change, then you should not be flying that approach.

 

[waveflyer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by freightdogfred
Ok tuff guy... I'm guessing you're one of the tens of thousands.

The guy fukked up royal but didn't slide off the end. It could have been way worse. I've been flying a long time but have not yet met the guy who walks on water.[/]

I always find it odd when people (and mostly media) say 'it could've been a lot worse'. Things always could be a lot worse.

Well said!

I happen to like living in an objective world where what actually happened matters.
Address it systemically- give them a vacation and some sim time and move on.

 

[waveflyer]

I find it amazing you and others want to dismiss the severity. There is no superiority complex, I take my command serious. If I don't see the airport or know for certain it is the right one I will go around or hold until I'm ready. This is much larger than SWA. It's about a coming to work with your A game every time.

If you think a certain number of mistakes as a captain are OK, please tell me which ones are? I'm dying to know as I'm sure others are. You're attitude comes from thinking this is an attack on SWA. It couldn't Be farther from the truth. This is about airmanship...

Can someone say "bid avoid"^^^^

Go on capt america, do your thing-
You're the guy who will be trying to bring his A game so hard you'll miss a hundred things- and your flying partner is rolling their eyes at you.

I stand by everything I said- your attitude is dangerous and common in incidences and accidents.

Again, using this as a reminder to fight complacency is a LOT different than the superiority complex you got on display.
Humility is as necessary as confidence in flying

(Attack on SWA? I don't give a rats ass about that)

 

[waveflyer]

As for being heads down, if you can't change a landing runway in any FMS in 15 seconds during flight, than you should not be flying the airplane that FMS is attached to. And if you can't find 15 seconds on approach to dedicate to that change, then you should not be flying that approach.

Yeah-
And god forbid multi-task

 

[scarface]

Barring egregious disregard of SOPs I'd think a tailor-made LOFT with some OE with a line check ought to do it. Of course getting the POI to buy off on it is necessary and they are often political animals.
One thing for sure, you've got two pilots who'll never do that again.