SWA going against McCaskill Bond?

[waverunner]

General Lee, do you ever get tired of yourself?? Just wondering...

 

[Andy]

Eastern went out of business because Eastern failed for many reasons. Neither the citizens of Atlanta or Delta were the culprits of that debackle, nor could they have saved Eastern.

SWA, unlike Eastern, strives to maintain a certain culture and public persona with the traveling public. It's an integral part of their marketing strategy. SWA wants to succeed in this competitive environment. In order to do that they need all parties striving to make SWA thrive. OTOH, Lorenzo could have cared less about Eastern, and not much more for Continental. While I can appreciate where your cynical and bitter attitude comes from, in this instance, it misses the mark.

My friend, you are unable to see the similarity in the chess moves. I drew similar comparisons to Eastern well before reading Sacha's post.

You and many other trannies discount the worst possible outcome for yourselves because you think that AirTran's operations and personnel are critical to a successful outcome for Southwest in ATL. They're not. You, me, everyone on this board is completely dispensible. There is a backup plan in Dallas and it's being put in motion. The Southwest flights into ATL starting next Feb should've been a clue to you guys. Do you really think the announcement was a coincidence? So you guys have until next Feb to pass a less desirable SLI or all integration/single operating certificate efforts will come to a screeching halt.
Think about it. They were pushing for a single operating certificate next March. Your MEC kills SL9. GK flies into Atlanta and announces Southwest service starting in Feb. Connect the dots; this isn't rocket science.
Southwest already has what they wanted - a large presence in ATL. ATL was the largest city in the US where no Southwest aircraft flew.
Southwest's operation is very different than traditional hub and spoke carriers so it will probably be easier and more cost effective to simply grow within the Southwest subsidiary than to integrate AirTran's operations into Southwest. Quite frankly, I find the complexity of their operation to be mind boggling but they have figured out how to maximize O/D traffic efficiency using their business model.
If you think that they can't grow ATL internally, you must not have watched what happened after they entered the DEN market.

What I find so disturbing in all of this is that the AirTran pilots think that Southwest management's bluffing. As far as I know, they've never bluffed. But they're going to start now? Seriously? You really need to read this interview: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/08/gary-kelly-talks-about-airtran-1.html
You guys are committing seppuku and aren't even cognizant of that fact.

 

[redflyer65]

I believe if this evidence was to go to court it would show that SWA never intended to give the pilots of Airtran a fair shake..

I would say the opposite could be argued. Gary and SWAPA made every effort to garner a good deal. He can sit back now and say 'Look, I tried to give them the best deal we could, but they turned it down'. No one, and I mean NO ONE on the SWAPA side has drug their feet like the ALPA crowd.

Gary has perfect cover to now run both companies seperately. Are you surprised that he threw out the 'economic turmoil'? Southwest pilots have been saying he would play that card, but we were all dismissed as 'fear mongering'. How this has played out is absolutely no surprise.

Even the ALPA response letter was still out in left field. I don't see any indication that Gary won't run them seperately at this point.

 

[TillerTurner]

Has a CEO ever put himself in the negotiating to broker a deal between to unions like GK did?

 

[Sacha]

Eastern went out of business because Eastern failed for many reasons. Neither the citizens of Atlanta or Delta were the culprits of that debackle, nor could they have saved Eastern.

SWA, unlike Eastern, strives to maintain a certain culture and public persona with the traveling public. It's an integral part of their marketing strategy. SWA wants to succeed in this competitive environment. In order to do that they need all parties striving to make SWA thrive. OTOH, Lorenzo could have cared less about Eastern, and not much more for Continental. While I can appreciate where your cynical and bitter attitude comes from, in this instance, it misses the mark.

Where did I say the citizens of Atlanta or Delta were the culprits? How this: Nobody is going to give a damn about the supposed unfairness to the Airtran pilots in the General Public or how it turns out. Are you with the Fed? Ben is that you? Timmy Geithner? Is that you too? Your living in a world of make believe and fantasy. Sorry.

 

[FlyinGuy]

If GK did shut down AT, it would be about 6 months before most people forgot that they existed. They would be just one of the many casualties in the airline business. Yes, there would be an initial cry...but in the end people will travel and people will "convert" to SWA (or Delta).

 

[texman]

What would the board of directors tell GK if he states SWA is losing money because of those lack of synergies? What about the stock holders at the annual stockholders meeting? I bet they will tell him to fix it, and fix it quick. They want PROFITS, not turmoil. This is starting to smell like the next USair, and that smells worse than Redflyer's last deposit at the ELP Airport La Quinta.



OYS

How about you tell him to fix it.

 

[FDJ2]

My friend, you are unable to see the similarity in the chess moves. I drew similar comparisons to Eastern well before reading Sacha's post.

You and many other trannies discount the worst possible outcome for yourselves because you think that AirTran's operations and personnel are critical to a successful outcome for Southwest in ATL. They're not. You, me, everyone on this board is completely dispensible. There is a backup plan in Dallas and it's being put in motion. The Southwest flights into ATL starting next Feb should've been a clue to you guys. Do you really think the announcement was a coincidence? So you guys have until next Feb to pass a less desirable SLI or all integration/single operating certificate efforts will come to a screeching halt.
Think about it. They were pushing for a single operating certificate next March. Your MEC kills SL9. GK flies into Atlanta and announces Southwest service starting in Feb. Connect the dots; this isn't rocket science.
Southwest already has what they wanted - a large presence in ATL. ATL was the largest city in the US where no Southwest aircraft flew.
Southwest's operation is very different than traditional hub and spoke carriers so it will probably be easier and more cost effective to simply grow within the Southwest subsidiary than to integrate AirTran's operations into Southwest. Quite frankly, I find the complexity of their operation to be mind boggling but they have figured out how to maximize O/D traffic efficiency using their business model.
If you think that they can't grow ATL internally, you must not have watched what happened after they entered the DEN market.

What I find so disturbing in all of this is that the AirTran pilots think that Southwest management's bluffing. As far as I know, they've never bluffed. But they're going to start now? Seriously? You really need to read this interview: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/08/gary-kelly-talks-about-airtran-1.html
You guys are committing seppuku and aren't even cognizant of that fact.

More threats and attempts at intimidation, nothing more. The Airtran pilots should stay on the high road and not worry about the boogey man. Why so much fear of a fair and equitable seniority integration? If SWAPA truly felt confident in their position they wouldn't be running around kissing up to management and trying to bully the Airtran pilots out of their right to a fair and equitable integration. Sooner or later SWAPA/SWA (is there really a difference) is going to have to deal with the Airtran pilots.

 

[texman]

What would the board of directors tell GK if he states SWA is losing money because of those lack of synergies? What about the stock holders at the annual stockholders meeting? I bet they will tell him to fix it, and fix it quick. They want PROFITS, not turmoil. This is starting to smell like the next USair, and that smells worse than Redflyer's last deposit at the ELP Airport La Quinta.



OYS

On another note, the share/stakeholders know the possible ramifications of this acquisition. It was spelled out in the SEC filings.

 

[FDJ2]

Where did I say the citizens of Atlanta or Delta were the culprits? How this: Nobody is going to give a damn about the supposed unfairness to the Airtran pilots in the General Public or how it turns out. Are you with the Fed? Ben is that you? Timmy Geithner? Is that you too? Your living in a world of make believe and fantasy. Sorry.

It's all about marketing, politics and the law. Sooner or later those realities will become apparent.

 

[SKC]

Gen,

You are correct about the other employee groups, but both Pilot groups are leading the other groups. The ..., dispatchers, ... are all waiting on us.

Actually, we're waiting to get our CBA done prior to any integration talks.

 

[redflyer65]

The Airtran pilots should stay on the high road .

Hilarious. Thanks for the morning comedy.

 

[Tripower455]

General Lee, do you ever get tired of yourself?? Just wondering...

Of course, that's why he/she has several other, equally worthless personas here on FI.

Maybe when he/she gets out of puberty, he/she will get a boyfriend/girlfriend and a job, leaving him/her less time to annoy the adults by posing as an airline pilot. "Virtual" airlines don't count....

 

[texman]

Actually, we're waiting to get our CBA done prior to any integration talks.

Yes, just found that out. Thx.

 

[Sacha]

Of course, that's why he/she has several other, equally worthless personas here on FI.

Maybe when he/she gets out of puberty, he/she will get a boyfriend/girlfriend and a job, leaving him/her less time to annoy the adults by posing as an airline pilot. "Virtual" airlines don't count....

Just curious, I am kind of new to this forum. After a few days it sure seemed to me that OYS and the General were very similar in their posts in a lot of ways. Not to mention they kept citing each others posts for some sort of affirmation or support. Then I noticed when one would be on the forum, the other would disappear. Then when the other reappeared, the other would be gone. They are both equally not playing with a full deck. I talked with some Airtran buds about it and they laughed saying that they are one and the same and they don't work at Delta at all. He is a she and a junior pissed off Airtran chick. Now that made a little more sense. If they actually integrate, which am doubting more and more, I hope the fence around ATL is higher than the control tower. I wouldn't want her anywhere near my cockpit.

 

[Kharma Police]

Just curious, I am kind of new to this forum. After a few days it sure seemed to me that OYS and the General were very similar in their posts in a lot of ways. Not to mention they kept citing each others posts for some sort of affirmation or support. Then I noticed when one would be on the forum, the other would disappear. Then when the other reappeared, the other would be gone. They are both equally not playing with a full deck. I talked with some Airtran buds about it and they laughed saying that they are one and the same and they don't work at Delta at all. He is a she and a junior pissed off Airtran chick. Now that made a little more sense. If they actually integrate, which am doubting more and more, I hope the fence around ATL is higher than the control tower. I wouldn't want her anywhere near my cockpit.

Interesting, you use the same language as that loud mouth chick "Vixen", whom hasn't posted here for awhile, which incidentally is about the same time you starting chiming in.

First acting like an angry chick and then calling out the General who has been on this board since its inception? I still remember him and Ty sparring 10 years ago. I may make silly fecal jokes but at least I don't have a gender identity crisis like you. We need to start calling you Buffalo Bill, from Silence of the Lambs.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Sacha

You will find that flight info is infested with children that don't have much of a real grip on the world of the workforce. Most of the vocal geniuses aren't even working.

So far we have a good ole boy who's infatuated with The Dukes of Hazzard and a chick that wants to pack it in his "six"

We got a chick that's infatuated with a dude that's infatuated with the dukes of hazzard and has an affinity for strap-ons.

We got a guy that prances around like a little yippy dog saying things like "yeah jue really got'em goot on dat won mang" whenever some airtranny snorts at a SWA pilot.

We got another poster that has an insane infatuation with poop.

And of course we have the Tranny Mec moles that come here to give us all the delicious info we would ever want to know about the dysfunctionality that is their MEC.

Once again, Airtran MEC. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! From the bottom of my heart for voting this thing down. You will never know how happy you've made 6000 plus Real Southwest Pilots. Good luck in your future endeavors. You will always be welcome on my jumpseat when you're commuting to MKE out of ATL on SWA. And if we're ever on an overnight together the drinks are on me!!!

imp:

 

[redflyer65]

Real Southwest Pilots.
imp:

You get the OSW tattoo yet? There is a shop down in Dallas that will give you a discount with the SW badge.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Rf65

You get the OSW tattoo yet? There is a shop down in Dallas that will give you a discount with the SW badge.

Actually I'm glad I held off as it looks like I won't need it.

 

[General Lee]

The Airtran pilots won't be bullied and they won't be bought. They will have to be dealt with as equal partners.

Now that it is clear that neither SWAPA or SWA supports pay equity for Airtran pilots, the argument that they will get a windfall because of SWAPA or SWA is a moot point. If the Airtran pilots achieve pay equity it will be because they demanded it and earned it. So much for the pay disparity argument.

Management should never have put their snout in this labor issue, by doing so they have shown their hand and any semblance of fair treatment is now gone.

Their is a process for a fair integration and that process should be respected by all sides.

IMO, the Airtran MEC must make it perfectly clear to SWA management that the success or failure of this merger (save the purchased v. merger line, because it's not relevant) depends on whether or not management can treat each employee equally, regardless of pre-merger status.

I would remind SWA management that the Airtran pilots will not sit idly by and be treated as second class citizens. If they are, SWA will receive a very public and very cold welcome in Atlanta.

The path forward should be clear to all involved, respect the process. Those that fail to respect a process which treats all parties fairly will ultimately reap a bitter harvest.

Um, can I hear a hallelujah?



Bye Bye---General Lee