SWA DB- DING You suck!

[English]

What is job security?

 

[MarylandONE]

What is job security?

Southwest Airlines

 

[LUVChild]

I would say that SWA has better job security than almost any other airline out there right now, but I'd also say that could change in a very short time if we don't keep our wits about us.

Part of the beauty of SWA is that management and labor genuinely do try to work together. Not to say that it's always rosey, but both sides generally put forth an effort to understand each other and work towards the overall health, stability, and profitability of this airline. I truly believe that the day we lose that is the day that will be the beginning of the end for Southwest...which means that both labor and management bear equal responsibility for our continued success. One side can't do it without the other.

As far as references to "Airline", keep this in mind...it's a show for entertainment. They film for days looking for one scenario that might be meaty enough to capture the viewers' interest. I've actually talked to the flim crews from A&E, and they've told me that, most of the time, their job is pretty boring. They sit around, waiting to hear over the radio that something juicy is happening. More often than not, they spend quite a few days with no real events. The 1-hour show that you see is often the result of several days of filming at three or four different stations. From what I've seen, our Customers are no better or worse than any other airline's. I hope that puts it in perspective.

So while I'm fiercy proud of my airline, I will also say this: let's not get too cocky with ourselves. Our $hit stinks just like everybody elses. Company pride is great, but arrogance will ultimately be the end of us. If you want to see where arrogance will land you, you need look no further than some of the airlines that came before us. Confidence and humility can be gracefully paired together

 

[MarylandONE]

I would say that SWA has better job security than almost any other airline out there right now, but I'd also say that could change in a very short time if we don't keep our wits about us.

Part of the beauty of SWA is that management and labor genuinely do try to work together. Not to say that it's always rosey, but both sides generally put forth an effort to understand each other and work towards the overall health, stability, and profitability of this airline. I truly believe that the day we lose that is the day that will be the beginning of the end for Southwest...which means that both labor and management bear equal responsibility for our continued success. One side can't do it without the other.

Amen.....I believe most everyone at our airline understands this and is why no other airline will touch us. I have never seen management and employee groups work with such coordination and mutual respect. No other company, let alone airline, has what we have.

For anyone to compare any other airline to us is ludicrous.

 

[waverunner]

Luvchild is right on the money. Finally a meaningful, insightful, and intelligent post! I've sifted through a bunch of mudslinging and wasted 20 mins. with this thread. Man O Man, you guys. All started with Gatorade. Gatorade: Things don't always happen in life the way you want them to happen. Things happen for a reason. Go do something else or keep doing whatever you are doing and if in a years time or whatever SWA still puts a gleam in your eyes then give it another whirl. You'll be even better next time with more of life's experiences to share wherever you interview. Yeah SW is a great place to work, but it ain't the only game in town. Pick yourself up. Dust yourself off and "get 'er done". Peace out! May this thread die a rapid death!

 

[mach zero]

There is no job security at an airline unless you are the C screw everyone over for a $6000 shower curtain EO.

Let's talk about job security at the Brown. I have talked to more than one management type at UPS at separate times. They all say they avoid flying as much of the freight as possible. They also talked of an initiative being evaluated to start double-crewing the trucks to run them non-stop on the long legs to replace the planes as much as possible.

The other question you have to ask is how much are they getting the freight charter flown for? Take a look across the ramp before X-mas at all those Gemini, Capital Cargo, Custom Air Transport, and other freight non-scheds. If UPS could fly the stuff cheaper on them then rest assured they will. UPS freight was originally flown by Orion and I believe could easily go back to a sub-contractor if your Brown pilots and planes were to expensive.

Nobody has complete job security in the flying game...not even you.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Let's talk about job security at the Brown.

Nobody has complete job security in the flying game...not even you.

Um.....what's your point? Where did I say I had job security?

I said there is no job security at an airline. I would include FedEx, UPS, Astar, etc. as airlines.

 

[MINIME]

Nice...I like it. That was funny. I know SWA does not hiring military guys only. I said "It seemed for June" rather my interview group. I'm no Ben Matlock. My posts arent the facts, just CHEAP THERAPY. That's all. Thanks for all the posts. Enjoy the weekend.

I'm truly sorry about the outcome of your interview. I haven't even been called for one yet. This I say as food for thought for your next round, I truly believe there's a formula to their system. I've commuted almost 5 years on SWA up to now. I'm truly amazed at how welcomed they make me feel everytime I JS. Sometimes 3 roundtrips a week with some of the same pilots. NO other airline even comes close! I believe that this is no coincidence. It's the system they use to screen the individuals they hire to the teeth. In today's world more than ever, I believe you have to try to form yourself to that mold in order to have a fighting chance. Sounds a little unfair, but I think that is one the keys to their success. And they ain't about to give it up now!

My humble advice from talking to some of the LUV boys, is to not give up rather learn from this experience so that you could be in a class next year. Who knows we might be in class together!!

 

[Capt1124]

I'm glad so many people, particularly Southwest pilots, have been able to maintain the belief that life is fair and everybody gets what they deserve. That's easy to do if things work out they way you planned.

In the end airlines hire who they want to hire. To even get to an interview requires a statistically improbable run of good fortune on top of the effort involved.

They invite lots of people to interview so they can be very selective and hire the people they really like and they think will be ideal employees. And pilots want to work for Southwest bad enough that many (I don't know the percentage) will go out and pay for the type rating just for the chance to go to the interview.

They make the interview "friendly" and "positive" so you will let down your guard and they can examine you more closely.

If you get the job, you can maintain and strengthen the belief that you're one of the special, chosen ones and you really are better than everybody else.

If you don't get the job you make other plans for your life.

 

[P3 Tweek]

3 years - No call

"Now, it would appear that the PD has changed. Instead of hiring the overachieving underdog, SWA wants to hire the same politically savy, a-hole kissers that were in such demand at places like DL in recent years. \

Hey SWA I've got a tip. Just hire like you did fifteen years ago.

The pilots you hired then have been an integral part of your success. Why have you replaced your proven formula with the formula used by now failing airlines? (BTW, this is rhetoric, and not intended to imply that pilot hiring has anything to do with the failure of any current airline)"

Cal

-------------------------------------------

Cal is on the mark in my opinion.

SWA has always had `high' qualification standards, ie. type rating, turbine PIC, etc. to make an application with them. Generally, only the very motivated people (like me and others) had applied.

Remember the FIFO (First in - First out) paper apps of the past? If SWA needed 100 applicants for interviews back then they took the top 100 on the pile. It didn't matter if you had minimum hours or 20000+. If you had the quals you got called. It was FIFO. They hired almost entirely by `attitude and personallity' because everyone interviewing was well qualified.

The hiring process and attitude at PD took a whole different direction when the `on-line' applications came about in Jan 2004. Like `Cal' I believe the hiring philosophy at WN likely may not be for the airline's betterment in the longterm.

I fear that 10-15 years from now SWA will resemble DAL, UAL, and NWA of the past in too many ways. SWA is `The Best' and I'm hoping it will always stay that way even though I will surely never get the opportunity to be a member of their team:

4650 TT
2050 PIC Turb
50 y.o.

Tweek

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I'm glad so many people, particularly Southwest pilots, have been able to maintain the belief that life is fair and everybody gets what they deserve. That's easy to do if things work out they way you planned.

I don't think life is fair. But your point is taken. Anyone selected for SWA should be thankful. Those that aren't selected are not unworthy. Anyone selected for interview and many who aren't are also "worthy".

In the end airlines hire who they want to hire. To even get to an interview requires a statistically improbable run of good fortune on top of the effort involved.

Airline management, I'm guessing, goes to great pain to figure out how to get those they want onto the property and how to keep them. SWA's focus seems to be shifting and may continue to do so in the years ahead. The shift has not only been in the quality of applicants and the new competitive first officer compensation package. There has also been a shift in the time to captain upgrade. It slowed down from '01-'04 and, after the hiring boom scheduled to mature '09-'12, it will likely slow down again. Perhaps permantently. Applicants hot to make captain quick will be looking at other options. Can we get to a situation where SWA newhires might leave for greener pastures? That is expensive and management wants to limit those events. Not right or wrong, just is. As hiring continues big at CAL and Airtran, SWA will once again be the underdog at some point. Even if only during a brief, unexpected hiring lull and rumors of delayed plane orders. I don't think SWA's overall hiring style will change that much. SWA wants to maintain the style of the interview with minor tweaks here and there to reflect current realities. But the process isn't perfect and individuals will get disappointed who should have been selected.

They invite lots of people to interview so they can be very selective and hire the people they really like and they think will be ideal employees. And pilots want to work for Southwest bad enough that many (I don't know the percentage) will go out and pay for the type rating just for the chance to go to the interview.

I truly believe SWA is searching for a balance here. Too many applications on file create a tough situation. SWA would lose too many top applicants if it took 2 years to get to their application.

They make the interview "friendly" and "positive" so you will let down your guard and they can examine you more closely.

Yes. They also want to show you how SWA employees interact with one another and the customer. I find it a plus because it is more enjoyable to work with other "friendly" employees. Some people really don't care and you know who you are.

If you get the job, you can maintain and strengthen the belief that you're one of the special, chosen ones and you really are better than everybody else.

C'mon. I don't believe that and the bravado you see on flightinfo is just a negative response to cries of PFT and "you're just a regional pilot". No one really thinks that. All of us here are too sensitive. SWA guys being hurt by negative comments and applicants by SWA pilots who brag about how good it is to be here. flightinfo is a place where hurt feelings get aired.

If you don't get the job you make other plans for your life.

Backup plans are good. I've had to use the backup plan a couple of times myself. And I'm often surprised when its not required.

The large majority of SWA pilots I run into are more humble than the average pilot. And I hope it stays that way.

 

[XBOEINGDRVR]

Hey Gator.... I had the exact same experience and same result! Except it happened twice with me. 1998/ 2004. And I had 4 LOR`s, 2200 hours in the 737. So, dont feel too bad im in the same boat brother...and i felt the same afterwards.

 

[LoveGun]

I went through the same thing in feb. I interviewed with 11 great, well qualified guys and only one was hired. Think about that before you decide to pay for your type rating. SWA is still my #1 choice and I will reapply. Just don't believe all the BS human resources spews about hiring everyone that is qualified and fits the SWA mold. SWA is only hiring around 30% of the people they interview. $7000 and two weeks training are a high price to pay for a 30% chance of getting hired. If I had it to do over again, I'd still choose to get the 737 type even though I haven't been hired yet. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't take the shot. Maybe next year...

 

[JetDude]

Let's Get It Straight

...Just don't believe all the BS human resources spews about hiring everyone that is qualified and fits the SWA mold. ...

The referenced post is BS!! They have never said this. The only things the SWA PD say about hiring are:

(1) How many pilots are projected to be hired during the year, and

(2) They would LIKE to hire everyone who interviews.

Simple logic shows that if only 500 (for example) are going to be hired, then not everyone interviewed that is qualified and fits the mold will be hired. This is consistent with EVERY carrier, EVERY engineering job, EVERY ditch-digging job, etc.

Whew...I feel better now. Peace out.