SWA culture!

[GuppyWN]

Not quite.

The most junior WN Captain was hired 11 years ago yesterday.

ALL BUT 480 AAI CAPTAINS would be junior to our guy by DOH.

Gup

 

[redflyer65]

Well stated Flycatcher.

I guess Fair and Equitable is all good unless it cuts the other way. I find it interesting that some junior AAI captains really expect to keep there seats and get all that the SWAPA contract brings with it. I've even heard them state it will be great to be based where they live (like HOU or BWI) and keep their seat....really? I think some need a complete reality check on this stuff.

I hope that the AAI MC can talk some sense into the rank and file, if not this could turn out much worse in the long run.

 

[texman]

Yall are a bunch of brothers picking on each other. I am your daddy! So stop! LOL! Yall drink some beer and have good weekend.

 

[Lear70]

So you're saying almost HALF our CA's are junior to at least your #1 F/O?

If so (and I'd have to look at our seniority list compared to yours to see the numbers), that's about 2 years of upgrades for retirements on the SWA side, notwithstanding growth, correct?

 

[On Your Six]

You're right Ty, the wholly-owned sub is called AirTran Airways...for now. If SWA chooses to keep you as a wholly-owned, they can name you whatever they please.

Regarding codeshare, you're almost half right. Though our current contract prohibits domestic codeshare, I'm quite sure our pilots would be willing to waive that part under certain circumstances. As far as your contract, don't be foolish enough to think any language in you new contract can prevent SWA from doing whatever it wants with you.

There's a reason your MC is so actively requesting that your group lower its expectations lately. They know what can and can't happen. Listen closely to them when they explain it to you.

Had an Airtran jumpseater yesterday tell me GK wants this deal to go faster, which is putting pressure on SWAPA. Arbitration will make it go really fast.



OYS

 

[Just thinking]

....."I'm simply a bit amazed that you, with a straight face, can say that you think it is the right of all AAI Captains to keep their seats in this acquisition, when there are 10-year FO's at SWA.".......

How many of those 10-year FO's at SWA bypassed the upgrade when it came? Did they bypass because there was not an upgrade available at their current base? Did they bypass the upgrade for QOL issues? If Oakland is the most junior base then every pilot that upgraded should have been at Oakland. Maybe they missed their opportunity to upgrade when they bypassed and the economy tanked and the upgrades dried up? Maybe they chose to stay DAL based instead of jumping on the grenade and upgrading into OAK. Just as AAI has 10 year FO's that chose not to upgrade for QOL they also have to wait for their opportunity if they want to upgrade when times are slow for the upgrade. They have to wait for the vacancy to post and then their SENIORITY dictates who gets the seat. Just because an AAI FO wants to upgrade does not mean they can kick a junior Captain out of his seat.


Point of clarification..... How many SWA FO's have more LONGEVITY with SWA than your most junior Captain (Jun 2001 hire?)

 

[GuppyWN]

This message is hidden because On Your Six is on your ignore list.

But I can guess what you said.

Lear, I mistyped. Our junior Captain STARTED his 11th year yesterday. But it is correct that AAI only has 480 +/- Captains senior to him. Or said differently our junior Captain is senior to 75% of all AAI pilots.

Hopefully that helps put in perspective what a windfall relative or DOH would be for you guys.

Have a good one. There's a whiskey with my name on it.
Gup

 

[dicko]

No, I mean cold, hard cash gains, and benefits gains, and scheduling gains, and domicile gains, etc. So if it works out that you lose a captain seat, you don't lose money, but gain it.

A Captain at AirTran who has been here for 8+ years is on $ 153 an hour. The 8 year FO rate at SWA is around $139 (converted from TFP).

It's a pay cut to become a SWA FO.

The fact that you could make more if you jump through hoops doesn't interest everybody. Nor is it set in stone. I do recognize that for some there may be the QOL differences.

 

[Dash Power]

A Captain at AirTran who has been here for 8+ years is on $ 153 an hour. The 8 year FO rate at SWA is around $139 (converted from TFP).

It's a pay cut to become a SWA FO.

The fact that you could make more if you jump through hoops doesn't interest everybody. Nor is it set in stone. I do recognize that for some there may be the QOL differences.

How much was the Captain rate at Airtran on September 27th?

 

[jball2]

I have really tried to take the high road with this but I have to speak my peace and I will leave this thread alone. When it comes down to it, you have to understand the we at SWA are very protective of what we have. To have someone with 50% less longevity think they are entitled to a position above us on the seniority list IS the entitlement we refer to. We HAVE worked longer and harder to get where we are. This is not to say anyone is lesser of an aviator at AAI. It means we put more into getting to our position WHERE WE ARE. It is no mystery AAI was plan b or c for a large part of your list. You cannot dispute that, if you do you are being disingenuous. Hell, I live in Atlanta and it was never even an option based on the working conditions there.

In closing, I am sorry if my rant offends my future family members. I am just trying to put into words what most of us think. I have been here 10 years, just like our buddy Ty. He, as well as others IMPLY they deserve more than their longevity will hold because they upgraded lightning fast at Airtran and to us it is ludicrous. If being a 737 CA is the only true career expectation we should all apply for XTRA air or Vision street captain spots. Fire Away! I have worked too hard for this.

 

[redflyer65]

Nor is it set in stone. I do recognize that for some there may be the QOL differences.

Neither is the growth that Lear keeps alluding to.. it is what it is now. Plus the absolute fact that the Airtran contract was done immediately after the purchase announcement. It's all inter-related. You most likely would not have the rates you have now without Southwest to begin with. Not saying you don't deserve them...you most absolutely do, but Bob was gonna string it out even further otherwise. He had no incentive to get a deal done, until Gary came calling.

Talk about getting labor onboard. Throw them a new contract and call it good. Then wait for the golden parachute.

And don't come on here and tell me it was almost done anyway. The heavy lifting was still ahead. Take a closer look at the differences in pay on Sept 26th and tell me that the same junior AAI CA would be making more than the senior SW FO with those payscales. This is the real snapshot of the windfall, not what was passed later. The contract was not produced in a vacuum guys.

I have an idea how the meeting is going to go down with Gary. Be an interesting July 17th for sure.

 

[SWA/FO]

Point of clarification..... How many SWA FO's have more LONGEVITY with SWA than your most junior Captain (Jun 2001 hire?)

12 up to Date of hire 7/5/01. :cartman:

 

[scoreboardII]

double checked, 12. 12 FO's who could have upgraded, or roughly .004.

 

[waveflyer]

A Captain at AirTran who has been here for 8+ years is on $ 153 an hour. The 8 year FO rate at SWA is around $139 (converted from TFP).

It's a pay cut to become a SWA FO.

The fact that you could make more if you jump through hoops doesn't interest everybody. Nor is it set in stone. I do recognize that for some there may be the QOL differences.

Dicko- pay rates are one thing, work rules and pairing efficiency are the multiplier- to this end the APC rough calculation doesn't do our system justice- you have to look at what we turn it into. I've had jobs where I turned $47/hr into $67k and another where I turned $42/hr into $35k working more days less efficiently.

So, though the tone sounds good 'I won't jump through hoops!' that doesn't recognize what life is like here. I won't get into a pairing contest- it's just simply more efficient at WN, and looking at rates without looking at W2's will never be comparing apples to apples.

An average 3rd year FO made more than your sept 26 AT capt. Every 8+ year FO makes more than them now. There's no getting away from that.

And a +1 with the previous poster. It took years longer for the average SWA pilot to garner this job than the average AT pilot to get theirs. That's relevant to seniority.

 

[SWA/CA]

Hey Ty
...some facts are coming to a union near you soon, very soon.