SWA culture!

[Ty Webb]

Don't make me bring Milton back.

I do not work for SWA. I started posting on these threads mainly after seeing Lear70s hypocrisy when his old threads begging to be stapled were discovered and then especially when he banned me for bringing them up..

Your first post on the subject was on 10/5, just 7 days after the merger was announced, a long time before anyone started necroposting anything or you were banned.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=136314&page=2

Better work a little harder at keeping your story straight, little mister.. . . .

 

[Ty Webb]

This stuff is getting old. Look for things to heat up this month, expect slightly surprised and mostly confused from the AAI pilots, to expressly pissed. Good luck fellas.

Could be the opposite team headed to the woodshed. Guess we'll see soon enough.

Have a great weekend. Don't burn your wieners.

TW:beer:

 

[Flycatcher99]

Re-read what I wrote- I said I hadn't mentioned my SLI expectations since 2010, when our respective MC/NC's asked us not to.

That's why it is irrelevant.

Sheesh. :erm:

Ty, you contradict yourself almost daily. What do you think it is to tell everyone here that you expect to keep "your" captain seat? That is exactly mentioning your SLI expectations. Oh, and by the way, it is also inferring that you expect something close to relative, since the only way you can keep "your" cappy seat, outside of a fence, is by something far more favorable to AAI than a DOH merge.

And I said it before, I'll say it again, since you couldn't answer my earlier post; you keep quoting the Process Agreement, but you don't have to read far into the agreement to see that there is absolutely no certainty to an arbitrated ISL being implemented.

Could be the opposite team headed to the woodshed. Guess we'll see soon enough.

Doubtful, as it's our Dad that owns the woodshed. Besides, it's not a good analogy. This isn't about punishments, and GK and every self-respecting SWA employee wants this to go well for all concerned. But as some others have posted here, GK and MVdV have made it clear that they are not going to allow something to transpire that worsens the situation for 6000 pilots here. The AAI guys will see life improve, no matter what. The powers-that-be here will make sure that the same is evident for the pilots that were already here.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty, you contradict yourself almost daily. What do you think it is to tell everyone here that you expect to keep "your" captain seat?

I'm not sure stating that " . . .there has never been an arbitrated agreement between two non-bankrupt airlines that bumped Captains out of the seat they had held for the past 7 years" is an expectation, more like a statement of fact. . . . If this one turns out differently, you can do the happy dance.

you keep quoting the Process Agreement, but you don't have to read far into the agreement to see that there is absolutely no certainty to an arbitrated ISL being implemented.

I didn't have to respond to this, others did. Since you missed it-

The Arbitrator sets the implementation date. If the company doesn't want to combine operations, they have 18 months from DOCC to do something else. I don't see them doing that just to keep you from having to abide by the agreement you signed.

Which brings me to the more important point- the rest of the Company employees. This merger is happening, and operations will be combined, because it is the best thing to do, for the Company, for ALL employees, and shareholders . . . . . not just the pilots.

 

[Lear70]

Your first post on the subject was on 10/5, just 7 days after the merger was announced, a long time before anyone started necroposting anything or you were banned.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=136314&page=2

Better work a little harder at keeping your story straight, little mister.. . . .

I wish people would quit quoting the idiot; there's a reason he's on my ignore list with only two other people. Even the other SWA pilots are getting tired of listening to his constant drivel.

I enjoy the calm, rational, non-threatening discourse from those who offer it. Even if the two sides don't agree on much, at least it lets us know WHY the other side feels the way they do about their position, and that in and of itself is helpful. I like understanding other people's arguments and positions and look forward to whatever our MC's/NC's work out, trucking on down the road, and building an even larger Southwest that kicks even more butt!

What cracks me up is the negotiations are apparently apparently going amicably and word from SWAPA is they are closing the gaps. On here, the gap is getting wider. The best part is the amount of misunderstanding about the process coming from both sides. Some of you really need to take a break or a while.

I'm hearing the same thing from our MC. I still believe they're going to come to a negotiated settlement and soon.

 

[ivauir]

Re-read what I wrote- I said I hadn't mentioned my SLI expectations since 2010, when our respective MC/NC's asked us not to.

That's why it is irrelevant.

Sheesh. :erm:

Ty,

I don't follow your made up rules.

The fact is that we all know where you stand on SLI expectations. Noted. Stop playing the victim. You kicked over the hornets nest. Move on.

 

[Ty Webb]

Lear, Baghdad Bob is back on my "ignore list". Sorry for stinkin' up the place. I'm outta here for the weekend. :beer:

TW

 

[Flycatcher99]

It's not an expectation, it's a statement of fact- there has never been an arbitrated agreement between two non-bankrupt airlines that bumped Captains out of the seat they had held for the past 7 years. If this one is different, you can do the happy dance.

Well, I don't expect this to go as far as arbitration, but if that is true, alright. You can expect what you want, given that none of the arbitrated rulings you've mentioned bear any resemblance to what is going on here. I'm simply a bit amazed that you, with a straight face, can say that you think it is the right of all AAI Captains to keep their seats in this acquisition, when there are 10-year FO's at SWA.

I didn't have to respond to this, others did. Since you missed it-

The Arbitrator sets the implementation date. If the company doesn't want to combine operations, they have 18 months from DOCC to do something else. I don't see them doing that just to keep you from having to abide by the agreement you signed.

Yes, I saw that response. You guys keep thinking within the bounds of the Process Agreement. The Process Agreement only applies to one situation, and it's spelled out in the introduction of the Process Agreement. If that scenario doesn't pan out, then the Process Agreement does not even apply.

 

[GuppyWN]

Looks like Senior WN management wanted a couple more days off this weekend. The negotiating meeting in Dallas next week has been postponed.

We can all put away our swords and focus on drinking beer this weekend. We will refocus our attacks on each other at a later date.

Thank you for your cooperation and have a nice day.
Gup

 

[OldManPilot]

Well, I don't expect this to go as far as arbitration, but if that is true, alright. You can expect what you want, given that none of the arbitrated rulings you've mentioned bear any resemblance to what is going on here. I'm simply a bit amazed that you, with a straight face, can say that you think it is the right of all AAI Captains to keep their seats in this acquisition, when there are 10-year FO's at SWA.

We All understand the 10-year FO situation. Are you saying the price that we AAI Pilots must pay is giving up seats on aircraft that we bring with us for these FO's?

Are they not being upgraded with aircraft that were AAI deliveries to be taken this year? Plus those coming?
What about our FO's that were waiting for these deliveries to upgrade themselves. See my point? Nothing will be perfect. We must all take the "treat each other well" attitude to get through this. We will all grow.

Hope this is understandable.

 

[Lear70]

Looks like Senior WN management wanted a couple more days off this weekend. The negotiating meeting in Dallas next week has been postponed.

We can all put away our swords and focus on drinking beer this weekend. We will refocus our attacks on each other at a later date.

Thank you for your cooperation and have a nice day.
Gup

Yeah saw that... the 12th is what they put out day before yesterday.

GAME OFF!

Happy Independence Day to everyone. Thankful we live in a country where we can all have a debate like this, then put down the sabers and go have a beer together.

:beer:

 

[Cometman]

Well, I don't expect this to go as far as arbitration, but if that is true, alright. You can expect what you want, given that none of the arbitrated rulings you've mentioned bear any resemblance to what is going on here. I'm simply a bit amazed that you, with a straight face, can say that you think it is the right of all AAI Captains to keep their seats in this acquisition, when there are 10-year FO's at SWA.

We All understand the 10-year FO situation. Are you saying the price that we AAI Pilots must pay is giving up seats on aircraft that we bring with us for these FO's?

Are they not being upgraded with aircraft that were AAI deliveries to be taken this year? Plus those coming?
What about our FO's that were waiting for these deliveries to upgrade themselves. See my point? Nothing will be perfect. We must all take the "treat each other well" attitude to get through this. We will all grow.

Hope this is understandable.

That is life. Your airline was bought by another airline. You have to pay something. You will still be OK after it is complete. GK will make sure that SWAPA is protected. There is no way there will be a 5-6 year Air Tran Captain at SWA after the fence.

 

[shootr]

Which brings me to the more important point- the rest of the Company employees. This merger is happening, and operations will be combined, because it is the best thing to do, for the Company, for ALL employees, and shareholders . . . . . not just the pilots.

Don't count on this. Do you have any idea how much uglier the maintenance combined list process is going to be? We might come to an agreement and the whole thing goes away, anyway. You should all look into this angle. Really ugly without a solid chance of combing without massive furloughs. AT has almost as many mechs as SWA with less than 1/3 the airplanes.

shootr

 

[Flycatcher99]

We All understand the 10-year FO situation.

Do you? Because you and Ty are pretty deft at avoiding answering the question. I'll ask you again. Do you think all AAI Captains, including ones that have been employed there for only 5 years, deserve to be SWA Caps above 10-year FO's?

Are you saying the price that we AAI Pilots must pay is giving up seats on aircraft that we bring with us for these FO's?

I shouldn't have to answer this question until you answer mine, but I will anyway. You guys are getting gains no matter what seat you end up in. Not arbitrary gains, or intangible gains, like "Gee this is gonna be a great company to work for when we get together", or "Gosh, I can't wait to see the growth potentials become reality!" No, I mean cold, hard cash gains, and benefits gains, and scheduling gains, and domicile gains, etc. So if it works out that you lose a captain seat, you don't lose money, but gain it.

Are they not being upgraded with aircraft that were AAI deliveries to be taken this year? Plus those coming?

We have no growth explicitly planned. None. I honestly don't know what you're talking about, beyond some optimistic, hopeful, forward-looking statements from GK. Not that I don't believe him, but you know as well as I do that you can't get excited about upgrade classes until you see them on the schedule. I'm sure Gary is optimistically hoping for all that, but even he will tell you that nothing is concrete until it's actually happenning. Which it isn't, yet.

And by the way, all these "gains" that you say SWA guys are getting, would actually benefit you all too. When you talk long-term growth after the merger, and more deliveries, IF those things happen, then those are shared gains, that you get on top of the immediate fiduciary and other gains you get the day you step on property. How does that make your proposed merger "fair and equitable"?

What about our FO's that were waiting for these deliveries to upgrade themselves.

What about them? See my comment above. Do you have upgrades scheduled? If so, you have a point, but either way, your FO's, regardless of whether they are or aren't about to upgrade, have unbelievable gains around the corner at SWA once they are on the list.

See my point? Nothing will be perfect. We must all take the "treat each other well" attitude to get through this. We will all grow.

Hope this is understandable.

I agree that we should "treat each other well", but it's funny how that request comes after AAI guys get demanding, and then SWA guys try to point out the flaws in the arguments. Honestly, I look forward to working with you guys, and to the day when much/all of this is behind us. In the meantime, a little less entitlement from certain folks will go a long way to enhancing brotherhood.

 

[Lear70]

I don't know why this myth is perpetuated, it's been explained several times:

THERE ARE NO 5-6 YEAR CA'S AT AAI.

The most junior one is at 7 years and most are 8+. The point being, you're probably only talking about 100-150 CA's that have the inverted DOH issue with SWA F/O's. Not making an argument about whether they should stay in their seats, just making sure you guys are seeing the bigger picture about how many people we're talking about (less than a year's upgrades on the SWA side for retirements starting in 2012).