SWA culture!

[slaquer5]

]Well if that is the consensus around there then we will see you in court.[/B] Just for curiosities sake, you laid out for us what we should not expect out of this would you be good enough to share with us your vision of what we can expect?

Might I ask what kind of court your talking about? Peoples court, tennis court,basketball court. I am sure there are more but it was a long weekend

food court...

 

[SWA/FO]

Well if that is the consensus around there then we will see you in court.

I will not be there to see all 5 of you personally, but I'm sure SWAPA will have someone there along with the Company. They will keep me posted via memos and such. Good luck.

:cartman:

 

[SWA/FO]

No, he's an Eastie. He just has a sense of honor and ethics.

You don't agree to binding arbitration unless you're willing to live with the outcome, even if you don't like it

So he is an Eastie that thinks differently then most Easties.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Might I ask what kind of court your talking about? Peoples court, tennis court,basketball court. I am sure there are more but it was a long weekend

food court...

Arbitration smart guy.

 

[FlyinGuy]

That's fair enough, and I have no problem with that. I don't want you guys to lose anything; that would certainly NOT be fair to your pilots. We recognize, however, that upgrades and hiring are already increasing on your side of the fence from what they were expected to pre-merger because of the growth WE were getting that is now coming to you. That needs to be taken into account as well

FYI, our "upgrades and hiring" are because of our summer schedule and adding back the flights that were trimmed a few years ago. This has nothing to do with this deal. So if you want to recognize something make sure you are recognizing it for what it really is!!!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

The law is clear that the Company has the right to participate in the process. Nothing in the process agreement weakens that right. Hope that helps.

Read Mohawk Allegheney,
Then come back, you guys are arguing from passion. Mohawk basically says "you will decide and agree, or an arbitrator will do it for you" Mohawk also says that it isn't clear what role the company will play, if any.
PBR

 

[XRMEFLYER]

I will not be there to see all 5 of you personally, but I'm sure SWAPA will have someone there along with the Company. They will keep me posted via memos and such. Good luck.

:cartman:

Obviously I was not suggesting that I personally would be there to litigate this. That I will leave to you and the other crew room lawyers on this site. I was merely pointing out that any "negotiated" agreement that integrated us with a less favorable outcome (for us) than DOH will not be approved by membership (by us) and therefore likely result in an arbitrated integration. IMHO

 

[texman]

Ah, so the sudden hiring at SWA for the first time since 2008 has nothing to do with taking our delivery slots, huh? :erm:

You could at least be gracious, and say "thank you" to our FO's who were planning to upgrade on those jets, or perhaps get off reserve. :laugh:

Ty this is true. I asked our cheif and JL and our scheduling dept. our little upgrades and hiring have nothing to do with AT. The letter put out from mvd was a pain reducer. The hiring is due to, vacation, record load factors, sick calls, and pilot going to mgt positions for international and etops stuff/-800.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

How are trannies harmed if they lose their Captain seat? Let me see, they aren't!!! They get a raise to be in the right seat!!!

If some one values being a CA over money, they will have been harmed. I don't have a dog in this fight, so a outsider, more than a few SWA guys are showing their true colors, it ain't pretty. You guys seem to forget these guys will be on your seniority list and sitting right next to yo for years to come. Remember in a seniority integration everybody should be equally pissed, except for the guy who retained the #1 seniority number.
PBR

 

[texman]

If some one values being a CA over money, they will have been harmed. I don't have a dog in this fight, so a outsider, more than a few SWA guys are showing their true colors, it ain't pretty. You guys seem to forget these guys will be on your seniority list and sitting right next to yo for years to come. Remember in a seniority integration everybody should be equally pissed, except for the guy who retained the #1 seniority number.
PBR

You think FI is SWA, you are living in a computer world dude. True colors? Brother this is just a debate and pride based argument. Do you think we are going to use FI as a base on how to treat our AT bros? I will treat every one from the AT side with respect, because if you want respect you have to give it. If TY or Lear is my capt or FO we will be at the bar telling war stories down in bangcock, or poon tang dee nang having a good time. True colors right there brother.

 

[redflyer65]

If some one values being a CA over money, they will have been harmed. I don't have a dog in this fight, so a outsider, more than a few SWA guys are showing their true colors, it ain't pretty. You guys seem to forget these guys will be on your seniority list and sitting right next to yo for years to come. Remember in a seniority integration everybody should be equally pissed, except for the guy who retained the #1 seniority number.
PBR

The true colors of SWAPA are to protect every single name on our list. Isn't that what they are supposed to do?

Tex is right, when the smoke clears we can get down to business. You know work hard and play hard.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

The head of our merger committee has YET AGAIN publicly (mailed to all pilots) asked our pilots not to engage in merger discussions on public web boards because it solves nothing, makes his job harder, and only creates hard feelings between the two groups. It is too bad there are those that can not put down the keyboard and let those we chose represent our pilot group in the appropriate forum.

 

[Ty Webb]

Since 2008, Southwest has had ZERO growth. What part of zero don't you understand? Who should I thank for that?

As they say in the islands, "Don't see me, see Jesus".

If you want to know who to thank for putting an end to your period of "no-growth", the man is G. Kelly and he did it by buying an airline that has 30+ city pairs that you don't serve so that the traffic can be complementary.

I guess it's true, Ty's pond just got a little bit bigger by the count of 6000 pilots. No wonder his pissed.

At 30%, I'm hardly in "big fish" territory, but thanks for playing. You guys have sure been busy this morning.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

You think FI is SWA, you are living in a computer world dude. True colors? Brother this is just a debate and pride based argument. Do you think we are going to use FI as a base on how to treat our AT bros? I will treat every one from the AT side with respect, because if you want respect you have to give it. If TY or Lear is my capt or FO we will be at the bar telling war stories down in bangcock, or poon tang dee nang having a good time. True colors right there brother.

True colors brother?
Tell ya what, I read this thread and my guts sagged just a little. In an anonomoyus situation people tend to voice their true opinions. If, and I say if, the majority of the SWA posters are in fact SWA guys, it's sad. To the guy who stated he was harmed because he would retire at 400 vs 100, in a company with more than 600, that's not just petty, it has childish smeared all over it.
Debate, involves logic, facts and a little bit of passion. What we have here is a lot of passion, little or no logic and very few facts, but what they hey it's FI. While I have never considered SWA not AT as choices, just not my style nor location. This type of rhetoric just inflames, and leads to angst, like what AW is experiencing. No one on a seniority list "wins", only the corporation does. SW may have bought AT, but the lists will be merged voluntarily, of they will be done by an arbitrator, that's the law.
Don't get me wrong, the AT guys are getting a good deal by just becoming SWA guys, the SWA guys benefit from the increased flying that AT brought with them, route wise and airframes, every body benefits, and everybody will pay a little also, seniority wise and position wise.
So continue the chest thumping and peeing in each others coffee cups, but remember for every poster there is probably 5 who just read and not post.
BTW, I have been in the business for a long time, and come here to chuckle and sling a little poo too, but this has just struck me as plain mean.
PBR

 

[jball2]

SWAPA is not just looking at right now. They are looking down the road 5, 10, 20 years and so on. The harm comes from the RAPID advancement of the younger AAI guys to the top, where they will sit for a LOOOONG time because of our greater number of retirements starting next December. Their "relative" advancement is much faster than ours and in fact, inhibits our advancement in the future as the seniority is weighted heavily toward the AAI guys down the road. This is because our senior guys retire in much bigger numbers taking out SWA above AAI pilots leaving those junior to them roadblocked because the AAI group is younger. What you end up with is a windfall at the expense of SWA where we can no longer advance because the mass of AAI guys senior too us who retire after us. Clear as mud right? Not arguing, just fueling debate.

 

[Lear70]

You think FI is SWA, you are living in a computer world dude. True colors? Brother this is just a debate and pride based argument. Do you think we are going to use FI as a base on how to treat our AT bros? I will treat every one from the AT side with respect, because if you want respect you have to give it. If TY or Lear is my capt or FO we will be at the bar telling war stories down in bangcock, or poon tang dee nang having a good time. True colors right there brother.

That's exactly what I was hoping this was... I know you guys are going to fight for what's fair, I wouldn't expect any different.

Interestingly enough, what this debate has shown, if anything, is that BOTH cultures exhibit the "warrior spirit" that Southwest prides itself on. I've seen guys and gals at both airlines go well above and beyond for their passengers and fellow coworkers, then come on here and debate their position as passionately as they can, then be just as polite and gracious as can be when I'm jumpseating back and forth.

One of you was even kind enough to take the 4th so that two of us could get home last week, and it was great meeting you in person. Things like that are why I continue to stay positive that this will be the next best thing since Southwest invented the LCC model. Keeping the faith, working hard, and having a good time,,, see ya'll 'round the watering hole. :beer:

 

[SWA/FO]

I was merely pointing out that any "negotiated" agreement that integrated us with a less favorable outcome (for us) than DOH will not be approved by membership (by us)

Less than DOH? You need to prepare yourself for the realities of the situation. Be prepared to be disappointed. The majority of your dudes want this thing done and most realize DOH is a pipe dream. Times a wasting..... There goes a couple more $$$$ lost.

:cartman:

 

[redflyer65]

What? Ty, you are outside the ballpark on this one dude. Show me exactly were Gary or anyone else has stated that the Southwest side of the house will grow or is growing.

I can tell you from my personal experience over here it just isn't happening...

Believe me, if it does I will post it for you here pronto, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Ty Webb]

. . . The harm comes from the RAPID advancement of the younger AAI guys to the top, where they will sit for a LOOOONG time because of our greater number of retirements starting next December. Their "relative" advancement is much faster than ours and in fact, inhibits our advancement in the future as the seniority is weighted heavily toward the AAI guys down the road. This is because our senior guys retire in much bigger numbers taking out SWA above AAI pilots leaving those junior to them roadblocked because the AAI group is younger. What you end up with is a windfall at the expense of SWA where we can no longer advance because the mass of AAI guys senior too us who retire after us. Clear as mud right? Not arguing, just fueling debate.

As Lear mentioned a few days ago, there are a number of issues like this that will all have to be addressed, so any negotiated SLI will likely to have to address some specific iniquities at different "choke points" in the list.

If anyone has creative ways to address specific issues like this, I hope you convey them to the respective MC/NC's.

Hopefully, we can find ways to address the concerns of both pilot groups, and get to something we can all live with.

RF,

What? Ty, you are outside the ballpark on this one dude. Show me exactly were Gary or anyone else has stated that the Southwest side of the house will grow or is growing.

I was speaking here about the future, not the present. Sorry if that wasn't clear. GK has made many references to this at various investor conferences, earnings calls, etc. They have been quoted here before.

Regards,
TW

 

[Ty Webb]

Less than DOH? You need to prepare yourself for the realities of the situation. Be prepared to be disappointed. The majority of your dudes want this thing done and most realize DOH is a pipe dream. Times a wasting..... There goes a couple more $$$$ lost.

:cartman:

I think it's becoming clear that SWA/FO has been the one posting as "Bob Dylan".