SWA culture!

[madjack]

Empennage,

I agree the debate is wotrhless, with so much at stake we will never change the minds of the other side...

I do not know what GK will do if we go to arbitration, he may be like every other airline exec and wash his hands of the deal...it seems that is what PBR is implying. He may also decide to run AAI as a separate entity...the point is both sides will have to accept that arbitration may have unexpected consequences...

I will only add that many here at SWA expect GK to act in their best interests...and will be sorely dissappointed if he does not do so...maybe that is what is unique about SWA CULTURE (back to thread): SWA employees expect their management to take care of them not SCR#$% them...

 

[PBRstreetgang]

PBR,

GK won't hand the keys to a panel of arbitrators. Let's agree to disagree.

As long as you agree to read chapters 3 and 13 of the Allegheney Mohawk LPP, via McCaskell-Bond. GK bought AT, he will have his hands tied because of A-M LPP, after reading the M-M LPP could believe due to the vague language of the actual details could be forced to integrate according to the arbitrators decision, even if he let AT die on the vine. Mc-B was created to prevent this very thing from happening, you would do well to become an expert in the act, since ultimately could be bound by it. Having been a party to a couple of arbitrations, and having lived next door to one I will attest to the level headedness of arbitrators, but if you make them mad via unreasonable demands and unwillingness to cooperate, you will not be happy with the result.
PBR

 

[GoodTimes]

Before I agree to read anything, I'll ask again, how does M/B and A/M apply to the SkyWest purchase of ASA and Express Jet? You would do well to become an expert in the management style of SWA. I say again, let's agree to disagree.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Before I agree to read anything, I'll ask again, how does M/B and A/M apply to the SkyWest purchase of ASA and Express Jet? I say again, let's agree to disagree.

Merger of seniority lists.......

 

[GoodTimes]

Has SkyWest merged seniority lists with ASA and EJ? Surely the regional airlines don't play by a different set of rules, right?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Has SkyWest merged seniority lists with ASA and EJ?

Not yet,
But if you read the TSA/GoJhet single list denial decision, will give a very clear list of requirements necessary to grant single list. SKYW-ASA-ExJet companies meet most of the requirements, see the recent Republic decision also. It will be interesting to say the least, question is who will be the petitioner, ASA, Express? SKYW will not petition, who will it be? ALPA is reluctant, due to the great unknown, decertification.
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

You would do well to become an expert in the management style of SWA. I say again, let's agree to disagree.

I have been watching SWA for 25 years, so allthough not an expert, I am somewhat familiar. I have always been a Herb fan, while GK is a frat bro of CC, wonder if there is anything there.
PBR

 

[GoodTimes]

So you're saying they'll merge lists. I say they won't. See? We disagree.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

GoodT,
I never said they will merge, I said there was the necessary elements to possibly see a Single List Petition to be granted. If it were petioned and ordered, I expect a full dose of corncob, probably from SKYW in order to curry favor with ASA/Ex guys.
Funny thing is while I wouldn't like it I would place the blame squarely where it belongs, with SKYW management, not the other guys.
PBR

 

[GuppyWN]

PBR,

Wait a minute.

You're saying that WN/AAI MUST merge lists but SKYW, ASA, Ex may not?

I'm confused. Actually I'm not. Bond/McCaskill makes NO REQUIREMENT to merge the lists. It clearly stipulates that IF the lists are merged it must be done so under agreement or arbitration.

For the record the WN and AAI lists WILL be merged because both parties WILL vote yes to an SLI produced under direct negotiation.

Gup

 

[texman]

A new federal law (Public Law 110-161), enacted in December 2007, directs that two of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs must be followed when airlines merge.

December 17, 2007
McCaskill and Bond Work to Protect Airline Workers In Mergers
Provision included in spending bill would prevent scenarios similar to TWA-American Airline merger
WASHINGTON, D.C. — Less than a week after Lufthansa agreed to purchase 19% of Jet Blue, a struggling U.S. carrier, U.S. Senators Claire McCaskill and Kit Bond today secured a provision to the Senate’s omnibus spending bill to provide air carrier employees with a base level of protection during mergers. With 1,253 former TWA employees still at risk of losing recall rights five years after being laid off from TWA’s merger with American, McCaskill and Bond are seeking to prevent similar scenarios from occurring in the future.

The provision would ensure a merger process by which airline employee seniority lists can be integrated in a fair manner. If a dispute occurs, the parties can engage in binding arbitration. This provision would make it harder for one airline or union to add the employees of another airline or union to the bottom of the seniority list. Thousands of former TWA flight attendants lost their seniority after American Airlines acquired TWA and were furloughed after September 11. This provision would help prevent such occurrences in the future.

In addition to the recent news about the Lufthansa investment in Jet Blue, news reports are fanning rumors about the potential for other major commercial airlines to engage in mergers. McCaskill, who successfully offered a similar amendment to the Federal Aviation Administration Reauthorization Act in May, believed that the recent talk of mergers raised the level of urgency to sign such protections into law. She was pleased to work with Bond, along with U.S. Senator Dick Durbin (D-Il), to ensure the provision was included in the omnibus spending bill. The bill is expected to pass in both chambers and to be signed into law by the holiday recess.

“This provision is an important piece of the puzzle to ensure workers in the future don't suffer the same fate as the TWA workers. I'm also hopeful it will aid in negotiations towards a final settlement for those workers,” McCaskill said.

“Our TWA workers were given promises and only got pink slips, this provision is a critical step in protecting airline workers from this fate in the future,” said Bond. “It was a pleasure to work with Senator McCaskill to secure these protections.”

I use Mohawk Allegheney as a common term since those provisions are used to determine the details.
PBR

PBR I would like to let you know that AM and MB are the law and in play, but these laws do not nor will dictate to a company on how to run their business. I think you are a little late in the game when it comes to the educational side of AM and MB. One question? When is Arbitration binding?

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Cool. You should be quite happy with relative seniority then, as it's been pointed out that the demographic of the FO list is quite similar.

The demographic is less similiar than you think. Less than 18 percent of the SWAPA pilots are under 40 and less than 8 percent are under 35. Relative would push my crossing the 50th percentile seniority line back several years and more than double my list percentage at retirement which would lessen the value of my career. Like I have said I'm not trying to gain out of this situation I'm just hoping not to lose.

 

[hairball1173]

For the record the WN and AAI lists WILL be merged because both parties WILL vote yes to an SLI produced under direct negotiation.

Gup

Awesome Comment!!! I agree!

 

[St. Nic]

THe Southwest guys control this merger. They can crush AirTran like a critter if they want to because they have all the numbers in there favor. They dont need to play ball or play nice liek AT wants them to. This could be over real soon. ALPA is worthless and role over just like they did with TWA

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

The demographic is less similiar than you think. Less than 18 percent of the SWAPA pilots are under 40 and less than 8 percent are under 35. Relative would push my crossing the 50th percentile seniority line back several years and more than double my list percentage at retirement.

Therein lies the million dollar question. What is the magic equation that will give a reasonble outcome for current WN pilots while doing as little damage to the FL pilots seniority wise (contract and pay withstanding).

It is interesting to note that the well verbalized concerns of some WN posters places so much emphasis on seniority, when other WN posters try to tell the FL guys that seniority and seat don't matter, it's all about the pay and contract.

 

[madjack]

LUV2bflyn,

Well the only possible gain for the the SWA pilots from this deal is seniority...the rest of the gains are heavily in AAI's favor given the SWA CBA...

 

[bladeusa]

THe Southwest guys control this merger. They can crush AirTran like a critter if they want to because they have all the numbers in there favor. They dont need to play ball or play nice liek AT wants them to. This could be over real soon. ALPA is worthless and role over just like they did with TWA

Just like you usapa scumbags are trying to do to america west? All you have done so far is shoot yourself in the foot and lose the respect of the rest of the industry. Thanks for being the role model of disfunction that all of us want to avoid.

btw.. its their instead of there. like instead of liek. roll instead of role. and binding instead of doing whatever you think suits you anyway, feltcher.uke:

 

[SWA/FO]

LUV2bflyn

At age 32 you'll have plenty of years ahead of you at Southwest Airlines, you just need to get on the list. Don't let this good deal pass you by. This is like getting into the World Series - in your rookie year, it might never happen again.

:cartman:

you want to look like this :beer: not this :bawling:

 

[Lear70]

Just like you usapa scumbags are trying to do to america west? All you have done so far is shoot yourself in the foot and lose the respect of the rest of the industry. Thanks for being the role model of disfunction that all of us want to avoid.

btw.. its their instead of there. like instead of liek. roll instead of role. and binding instead of doing whatever you think suits you anyway, feltcher.uke:

But at least he's passionate about what he believes... LOL

"Never argue with a true believer." Good advice, and is why I've stayed out of the East/West battle.

 

[SWA/FO]

Therein lies the million dollar question. What is the magic equation that will give a reasonble outcome for current WN pilots while doing as little damage to the FL pilots seniority wise (contract and pay withstanding).

It is interesting to note that the well verbalized concerns of some WN posters places so much emphasis on seniority

Dude you have no seniority at Tranny now. Sitting 87% in the Company, you are a "yes" voter regardless of SLI deal. You have the World by the balls at such a young age. Welcome to Southwest Airlines. Don't tell me you're more concerned with Ty Webb and his seat (that he will not hold after SLI) are you? Don't let these dudes ruin your shot!

:cartman: Beers on me dude!