SWA culture!

[Dan Roman]

True colors brother?
Tell ya what, I read this thread and my guts sagged just a little. In an anonomoyus situation people tend to voice their true opinions. If, and I say if, the majority of the SWA posters are in fact SWA guys, it's sad. To the guy who stated he was harmed because he would retire at 400 vs 100, in a company with more than 600, that's not just petty, it has childish smeared all over it.
Debate, involves logic, facts and a little bit of passion. What we have here is a lot of passion, little or no logic and very few facts, but what they hey it's FI. While I have never considered SWA not AT as choices, just not my style nor location. This type of rhetoric just inflames, and leads to angst, like what AW is experiencing. No one on a seniority list "wins", only the corporation does. SW may have bought AT, but the lists will be merged voluntarily, of they will be done by an arbitrator, that's the law.
Don't get me wrong, the AT guys are getting a good deal by just becoming


SWA guys, the SWA guys benefit from the increased flying that AT brought
with them, route wise and airframes, every body benefits, and everybody will pay a little also, seniority wise and position wise.



So continue the chest thumping and peeing in each others coffee cups, but remember for every poster there is probably 5 who just read and not post.
BTW, I have been in the business for a long time, and come here to chuckle and sling a little poo too, but this has just struck me as plain mean.
PBR

Good post. There is an adage that after a merger the only way you can tell if it was fair is if everyone is mad.

 

[Dan Roman]

The head of our merger committee has YET AGAIN publicly (mailed to all pilots) asked our pilots not to engage in merger discussions on public web boards because it solves nothing, makes his job harder, and only creates hard feelings between the two groups. It is too bad there are those that can not put down the keyboard and let those we chose represent our pilot group in the appropriate forum.

Well, at least you tried!

 

[Dan Roman]

Good post. There is an adage that after a merger the only way you can tell if it was fair is if everyone is mad.

Pops,just saw you said the same thing copy pages back about everyone should pissed after a merger.

 

[Tripower455]

I think it's becoming clear that SWA/FO has been the one posting as "Bob Dylan".

More likely he's another one of OysterGLeek's wonderful troll personalies.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I think it's becoming clear that SWA/FO has been the one posting as "Bob Dylan".

Sorry. I know you're obsessed with Bob Dylan but, nobody is using my account.

I still predict that it will be a straight staple for trannies or no deal. Trannies don't have any leverage that I can figure. SWA will offer you a staple, stupidly you'll turn it down and then SWA will say sorry, final offer. What will you do then?

You have nothing to say since everybody knows that SWA ain't letting an arbitrator staff their airline.

Take the staple. It's a gift.

 

[SWA/FO]

Take the staple. It's a gift.

I didn't type that. I say interview and start where everyone else did.

 

[flynvixen]

Sorry. I know you're obsessed with Bob Dylan but, nobody is using my account.

I still predict that it will be a straight staple for trannies or no deal. Trannies don't have any leverage that I can figure. SWA will offer you a staple, stupidly you'll turn it down and then SWA will say sorry, final offer. What will you do then?

You have nothing to say since everybody knows that SWA ain't letting an arbitrator staff their airline.

Take the staple. It's a gift.

How true, how true,...... spoken by a true man of vision.

can you say Muse Air, or Guadalupe Airways........Leave it to ALPA to not miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Their loud mouth legal eagle has told them that he can deliver the world to them. They are going to be shocked and amazed when the SWA culture fails to agree to their demands. If and when it goes to arbitration if SWA or SWAPA gets a bad deal the AT guys will find themselves fenced off and then operated separately until the end.

The arbitrator may have the final word on the SLI, but SWA and SWAPA have the final word on when""IF"" ever the two company's merge.

Staple staple

 

[Ty Webb]

This message is hidden because Bob Dylan is on your ignore list.

This message is hidden because SWA/FO is on your ignore list.

This message is hidden because flynvixen is on your ignore list.



Dang, 3 in a row! I'm on a roll, baby!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

How true, how true,...... spoken by a true man of vision.

can you say Muse Air, or Guadalupe Airways........Leave it to ALPA to not miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Their loud mouth legal eagle has told them that he can deliver the world to them. They are going to be shocked and amazed when the SWA culture fails to agree to their demands. If and when it goes to arbitration if SWA or SWAPA gets a bad deal the AT guys will find themselves fenced off and then operated separately until the end.

The arbitrator may have the final word on the SLI, but SWA and SWAPA have the final word on when""IF"" ever the two company's merge.

Staple staple

You know?
I have heard this type of bravado before, what will be interesting is when Mohawk Allegheney is invoked by the courts, it is legislated law, and to ignore it will be to the disadvantage of SWA and all concerned. Mohawk Allegheney was born from the AA/TWA debacle, and AA had far more certain ground than SWA has or will. If this goes to a jury or administrative judge it will be more than interesting, arrogance does not sit well with the aforementioned groups, no matter the state. If you think the delivery of a stack of pizzas delivered to the judge or jury will help out, lemme know, I wanna get the popcorn ready, and a cooler full of cold beers!
I know there is no small measure of chest pounding going on by the SWA guys, and a little by the ATs, it would do you well to remember there are guys on both sides of the screens and keyboards with real lives and families.
PBR

 

[madjack]

PBR,

Let's not forget the AAI pilots will get a better contract out of ANY deal...what is being represented on this forum is the SWA pilot frustration at those who want the better contract and also the seat and/or seniority...operating in a vacuum this seems legit but when you factor in that all SWA pilots would be harmed in that scenario it seems that a few at the acquired carrier are really being unrealistic...

 

[ivauir]

The head of our merger committee has YET AGAIN publicly (mailed to all pilots) asked our pilots not to engage in merger discussions on public web boards because it solves nothing, makes his job harder, and only creates hard feelings between the two groups. It is too bad there are those that can not put down the keyboard and let those we chose represent our pilot group in the appropriate forum.

+ one

 

[workunit]

Why let facts get in the way of a good story?

The Allegheny-Mohawk merger actually happened in 1972. What's 40 years among friends! McCaskill-Bond is what I believe you were referring to.

 

[GoodTimes]

All this talk of A/M and M/B is way premature. So much to go through before any of that becomes relevant.

How are those laws coming into play at SkyWest with their purchase of ASA and Express Jet?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

The Allegheny-Mohawk merger actually happened in 1972. What's 40 years among friends! McCaskill-Bond is what I believe you were referring to.

A new federal law (Public Law 110-161), enacted in December 2007, directs that two of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs must be followed when airlines merge.

December 17, 2007
McCaskill and Bond Work to Protect Airline Workers In Mergers
Provision included in spending bill would prevent scenarios similar to TWA-American Airline merger
WASHINGTON, D.C. — Less than a week after Lufthansa agreed to purchase 19% of Jet Blue, a struggling U.S. carrier, U.S. Senators Claire McCaskill and Kit Bond today secured a provision to the Senate’s omnibus spending bill to provide air carrier employees with a base level of protection during mergers. With 1,253 former TWA employees still at risk of losing recall rights five years after being laid off from TWA’s merger with American, McCaskill and Bond are seeking to prevent similar scenarios from occurring in the future.

The provision would ensure a merger process by which airline employee seniority lists can be integrated in a fair manner. If a dispute occurs, the parties can engage in binding arbitration. This provision would make it harder for one airline or union to add the employees of another airline or union to the bottom of the seniority list. Thousands of former TWA flight attendants lost their seniority after American Airlines acquired TWA and were furloughed after September 11. This provision would help prevent such occurrences in the future.

In addition to the recent news about the Lufthansa investment in Jet Blue, news reports are fanning rumors about the potential for other major commercial airlines to engage in mergers. McCaskill, who successfully offered a similar amendment to the Federal Aviation Administration Reauthorization Act in May, believed that the recent talk of mergers raised the level of urgency to sign such protections into law. She was pleased to work with Bond, along with U.S. Senator Dick Durbin (D-Il), to ensure the provision was included in the omnibus spending bill. The bill is expected to pass in both chambers and to be signed into law by the holiday recess.

“This provision is an important piece of the puzzle to ensure workers in the future don't suffer the same fate as the TWA workers. I'm also hopeful it will aid in negotiations towards a final settlement for those workers,” McCaskill said.

“Our TWA workers were given promises and only got pink slips, this provision is a critical step in protecting airline workers from this fate in the future,” said Bond. “It was a pleasure to work with Senator McCaskill to secure these protections.”

I use Mohawk Allegheney as a common term since those provisions are used to determine the details.
PBR

 

[SWA/FO]

Mohawk Allegheney was born from the AA/TWA debacle

then why didn't they call it the American Airlines Trans World Airlines? Why did they come up with the name Mohawk Allegheney?

Ty can't hang with the Men. Go eat some donuts with your friends.

 

[Ty Webb]

PBR,

Let's not forget the AAI pilots will get a better contract out of ANY deal...what is being represented on this forum is the SWA pilot frustration at those who want the better contract and also the seat and/or seniority...operating in a vacuum this seems legit but when you factor in that all SWA pilots would be harmed in that scenario it seems that a few at the acquired carrier are really being unrealistic...

Your perceived "harm" would be remaining status quo.

Our perceived "harm" would be loss of seat and seniority.

Seems like some of you guys need to be realistic, as well.

 

[GoodTimes]

Wrong Ty. Our harm, over time, would be waaay more than remaining status quo. Your list is younger and our list has more retirements. Not rocket surgery.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

All this talk of A/M and M/B is way premature. So much to go through before any of that becomes relevant.

How are those laws coming into play at SkyWest with their purchase of ASA and Express Jet?

I am interested the single list concept, SKYW may or may not be affected by a single list petition. I was referring to the process that will ensue if the SWA pilots stonewall the process. I truly hope that the SWA/AT groups can come to a fair and equitable agreement and move on without legal wrangling.
I know it may be silly in the FI court of public opinion, to suggest that this is a legal process, and there is a clearly defined process to be followed. To think that GK can do whatever he wants, if the pilots aren't happy is entertaining at best. GK, will wail and protest and then hand the case to an arbitrator, that's what airline execs do, profits will soar and some will retire at 400 instead of 100.
PBR

 

[GoodTimes]

PBR,

GK won't hand the keys to a panel of arbitrators. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[Empennage]

Wrong Ty. Our harm, over time, would be waaay more than remaining status quo. You're list is younger and our list has more retirements. Not rocket surgery.

Just no point in continuing the debate. It's not even constructive whatsoever. Sorry to b a DD, but its beginning to turn into a circus.

Ignore list ignore list ignore list. What's the point?