SWA and IPADS

[ATLplt]

Is this just for the SWA side or will the stipend be extended to the AT side of the house?

These iPads will be great for the guys on the 300 and 500's with a program like Foreflight, or the equivalent, running in the background. Instant moving map with TCAS-like capabilities. It'd be good for situational awareness anyway on non-glass panels.

 

[HowardBorden]

Is this just for the SWA side or will the stipend be extended to the AT side of the house?

These iPads will be great for the guys on the 300 and 500's with a program like Foreflight, or the equivalent, running in the background. Instant moving map with TCAS-like capabilities. It'd be good for situational awareness anyway on non-glass panels.

I think only certain models of the iPad have internal GPS. As it stands, we are prohibited from using the WiFi signal from the aircraft, not to mention that 300's and 500's will never have in flight WiFi installed. But, if you did have an internal GPS available on your iPad that would be a great help for situational awareness when using FMS with no stinking moving map available. Try wrapping your head around an FMS hold when there is no map to see it depicted available. It feels an awful lot like you are just along for the ride.

 

[ultrarunner]

All cellular iPads have the GPS chip. You're gonna like it.

 

[GlobeIII]

I know a lot of General Aviation guys use this solution:

http://bad-elf.com/

From their FAQ:
Will the Bad Elf GPS Receiver work on my Wi-Fi only device?
Yes. The Bad Elf GPS does not require any internet connection (Wi-Fi or 3G) to work. That said, many apps that use your location may themselves require Internet access. The default Maps app, for example, tries to fetch map tiles from the Internet as you move off the map. That’s why we keep a list of some of the apps that work great without requiring Internet access here.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

we learned the multi-million$ lesson from the headsets debacle-
Give us a stipend for the amount of the minimum ipad we need for the job and let us buy the suped up iPad or not, use our own or not-
Should've handled the headsets the same way and is a good common sense way to do this-
Good job- it's going to take a while to go full up, but the stipend was a great decision

Looks like they treat you like adults. Over at Netjets, they've got it bogged down with their own proprietary junk and you're constantly having to re-enter your passcodes. Not very cockpit friendly.

Put all the extra security of Windows on Apples and you get a piece of garbage. Duh!
Maybe we'll learn from the airlines? NOT!

 

[Ralph Cramden]

I have been using a class 2 EFB in 121 ops for 6+ years now, so permit me a few observations on the subject.

1. Not having to do revisions is nice, but the down side is you essentially get a new set of manuals every few weeks. All your margin notes, tabs and other crutches are gone. Yes, there are annotation capabilities in PDF files, but you will be getting new files every revision so they won't stay with you. You can make stand alone notes, but after a while you will be using your maybe correct, maybe out of date notes instead of the real manuals. Then come check ride day you won't be able to look something up. Good luck with that.

2. Not having a paper MEL just plain sucks. It takes longer to look up something in a PDF file, and you are more prone to miss important information by scrolling past it. Sure there is a search function, but did you spell generator right this time? Is it fire bell or fire warning? Computers are literal, humans not so much. No reaching for the MEL book accepting a bird and thanking the last guy for tabbing that MEL reference for you with a piece of his dispatch release.

3. Company issued vs personal device: We have bolted on EFBs in the flight deck and the company provides us with the files to put on our own devices for study (and computers in the crew rooms for people "too poor" to buy their own). I like this approach, use the company device while working, have no privacy issues for off duty use.

4. Forget using a tablet GPS in the cockpit. Most consumer GPS units won't work above 100 kts, and very few can get a signal through the windshield heat. I know, I've tried. For some reason the FAA has a real issue with moving map in flight for 121. They barely allow it for taxi.

And a question: To use an EFB in critical phases of flight, it must be secured. How are you going to do this with individual vs ship devices? Knee boards like back in flight school? Is everybody going to use the proper restraint all the time? Somebody is going to forget it on an FAA line check, and guess what will happen! You will be the reason for a company wide memo to not do that again.

 

[Whodat]

Really? What world do you live in? Why do you need to write notes on your plates?? How is it different reading an MEL on an iPad vs a piece of paper? You're gonna use a knee-board for your iPad? Have you been doing this for "the last 6 years" at your 121 airline? Wake up and join 2013 people-It's not that difficult!

 

[waveflyer]

Ralph-
I don't want to pile on, but that was a pretty amateurish post.
At SWA - we don't have notes on charts bc we have ship sets that are revised by jeppesen- no flight bags-
Haven't depended on notes in a decade anyway-
MEL specific pages are printed w/ our crazy long weather packets- our MEL is already stored on our opc which is much less user friendly than an iPad
Paper MELs? We'll figure out securing- and privacy-
I assume having work apps doesn't mean the company has installed a Trojan to look at everything I do

The old way is done- resistance at this point is just annoying to the managers and employees trying to get up to speed on a much better, more efficient way to do things.

But I do appreciate the post- remember, we are the king of "fly it like a -200!" I'm sure we have hundreds way more resistant to technology than anyone on this board-
Pilots have been putting that particular band aid on their IT skills for 20+ years-
But I hope everyone is realizing that that bill is coming due and we can't afford that attitude anymore

 

[CRAWDADDY]

how often do your iPads lock?

 

[Ralph Cramden]

OK Wave, I will admit to being a crusty old guy and see my post was a rant, but you will find out there is a down side to electronic manuals.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I wasn't talking about the Jepps. The only notes I ever put on Jepps was hotel numbers and jetway codes. That is what 10-7 pages and smart phones are for.

My airline was certified in the CSET age. We have over 20 manuals, each between 500 and 1000 "pages". They are all signed by the feds, but have contradictions and overlapping directives. Got a pax acting up? Check the Flight Attendant Manual or GOM? Is that rule in the Dispatch manual or elsewhere? No master index makes it difficult to get it right in the eyes of the boss man. Being electronic, there is no size limitation and the manuals grow and grow. Nobody can possibly read the whole thing.

And yes, in the old days with one 300 page FOM and one 300 page airplane book, my company manuals were margin noted, tabbed and used as a working reference and studied for training events.

Our Jepp app is in fact pretty nice. Set up your takeoff and landing airports and one touch takes you through the charts in a logical order, ramp - taxi - SID etc, rotated and zoomed to your personal preference. You will really like this.

I really like what you said about MELs. I'm going to start a push here to get the restrictions and operational procedure included on the release. Right now all we get is MEL XX-XX-XX-XX and you have to determine if you have a limitation or procedure to follow. Thanks for the idea.

The main issue I have with electronic MEL look up is when something breaks while boarding. Our current reader is less than ideal. Hopefully yours will be better.

As for moving map, again, no consumer grade tablet GPS is going to work through the cockpit windows. Try it.

I had a class 3 EFB with data tie in and moving map in the Gulfstream 450/550. It was really sweet. Unfortunately the airlines and the FAA have a lower standard for 121.