SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[texman]

Boy this is going to be a long summer.

 

[Ty Webb]

If we go R/S then a famous poster here who has been at AAI since NOV01 would be senior to me who has been at SWA longer (still an FO). Famous poster would still be a CP and would also get a BIG raise and benefits. True I would not lose bidding power but I would not GET ANYTHING out of the deal...how is this F/E?? Just curious...

Famous Poster says:

Wow, a legitimate, sincere question, asked in a non-threatening or confrontational manner . . . . I must have stumbled onto the wrong forum.

Seriously . . . that's a legitimate question, and I could try to explain it from my viewpoint, as a guy who,by the time this is settled, will have already been a ATL-based Captain for 7 years, but that would just provoke more crap from some on this board, so, what's the point?

I will say that I am very glad for our MC/NC's. Not because I expect them to return form the table with some sort of undeserved prize for me, but because they are working through these complicated issues with patience, diligence and diplomacy. Not an easy task, but I hope they can return with something we can all vote for, shake hands, and move forward.

Regards,
Ty

 

[funnyman12]

To over simplify my opinion is there are four possibilities an arbitrator could rule.......1. Staple (never has happened/not legal), 2.DOH(hasn't happened recently), 3. Ratio method(most likely in my opinion), or 4.Straight relative seniority(unlikely in my opinion). If a ratio method is decided there most likely will be Airtran guys senior to some SW guys that were hired at Airtran after them.....BUT their overall position on the combined list will be higher than their current position on the SW seniority list. I may be wrong but an arbitrator will protect the SW guys in terms of their position on the combined list being at or better than their position on the current SW list. If this were to happen Airtran guys would lose a LITTLE on their position on the the combined list but would most likely have guys at SW hired before them below them. It is about bidding power and quality of life......Then again arbitrators can be a wild card and who knows the solution that will be decided.

 

[texman]

funny,

I see your logic. I can't wait for SWAPA to show the QOL and biding power of even a JR FO has at SWA. But never the less your right about the wild card. I am curious if the arbitrator will consider the 717 smaller craft and class than the 737, or the same.

 

[Beechdriver32]

Ok, so I understand- a 20 something 2001 new hire at AT who didn't meet SWA hiring mins can/should be placed above a 30 something 2001 WN new hire. Direct capt seat and a huge raise for the rest of the carrer. And the SWA guy only gets his upgrade delayed another few years. And thats fair.

Got it. Thanks.

And BTW, who said Staple was 'illegal'.
Unlikely, sure. But 'illegal', don't think so.

 

[madjack]

Funnyman, Ty,

Thanks for your rational unemotional responses. I just wanted to get a feel what the AAI guys feel is F/E. I know this is a delicate topic...but FYI, the talk on the line, especially at the FO/junior CP level is that DOH would be a huge gain for AAI at the expense of SWA pilots who interviewed, typed and did the time in the right seat at SWA. I would say some of the most emotional folks on our list are former AAI pilots that are now mid to senior FOs at SWA. Funnnyman's best guess that a ratio method that potentially places more senior DOH SWA pilots behind AAI pilots would be very contentious to say the least. What is the talk on the line at AAI...if this is too contentious to discuss pls PM me.

I agree with everyone who feels that we will grow and prosper as a combined group. The sooner we integrate the better for everybody.

If we drink G/Ks koolaid and believe we will hire another 1000 pilots post merger, the issues we are discussing will be moot.

 

[texman]

Funnyman, Ty,

Thanks for your rational unemotional responses. I just wanted to get a feel what the AAI guys feel is F/E. I know this is a delicate topic...but FYI, the talk on the line, especially at the FO/junior CP level is that DOH would be a huge gain for AAI at the expense of SWA pilots who interviewed, typed and did the time in the right seat at SWA. I would say some of the most emotional folks on our list are former AAI pilots that are now mid to senior FOs at SWA. Funnnyman's best guess that a ratio method that potentially places more senior DOH SWA pilots behind AAI pilots would be very contentious to say the least. What is the talk on the line at AAI...if this is too contentious to discuss pls PM me.

I agree with everyone who feels that we will grow and prosper as a combined group. The sooner we integrate the better for everybody.

If we drink G/Ks koolaid and believe we will hire another 1000 pilots post merger, the issues we are discussing will be moot.

I agree with the last sentence. It is in his hands though.

 

[On Your Six]

Famous Poster says:

Wow, a legitimate, sincere question, asked in a non-threatening or confrontational manner . . . . I must have stumbled onto the wrong forum.

Seriously . . . that's a legitimate question, and I could try to explain it from my viewpoint, as a guy who,by the time this is settled, will have already been a ATL-based Captain for 7 years, but that would just provoke more crap from some on this board, so, what's the point?

I will say that I am very glad for our MC/NC's. Not because I expect them to return form the table with some sort of undeserved prize for me, but because they are working through these complicated issues with patience, diligence and diplomacy. Not an easy task, but I hope they can return with something we can all vote for, shake hands, and move forward.


Regards,
Ty

I would just advise you have EXTRA outside lawyers look over any deal even after your ALPA lawyers sign off on a deal. Pay the extra money for the extra scrutiny.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Funnyman, Ty,

Thanks for your rational unemotional responses. I just wanted to get a feel what the AAI guys feel is F/E. I know this is a delicate topic...but FYI, the talk on the line, especially at the FO/junior CP level is that DOH would be a huge gain for AAI at the expense of SWA pilots who interviewed, typed and did the time in the right seat at SWA. I would say some of the most emotional folks on our list are former AAI pilots that are now mid to senior FOs at SWA. Funnnyman's best guess that a ratio method that potentially places more senior DOH SWA pilots behind AAI pilots would be very contentious to say the least. What is the talk on the line at AAI...if this is too contentious to discuss pls PM me.

I agree with everyone who feels that we will grow and prosper as a combined group. The sooner we integrate the better for everybody

If we drink G/Ks koolaid and believe we will hire another 1000 pilots post merger, the issues we are discussing will be moot.

I don't think AT will approve any outside deal that doesn't place their current Captains on the list within the current SWA Captain positions. That doesn't mean all AT Captains have to senior SWA captains, just within the mid to lower level Captain area. If that doesnt occur, I would expect them to run to arbitration. Captains now deserve to be Captains after the SLI, and that means senior to current FOs on both sides. That is likely what arbitrators would rule anyway. They don't have to be at the top of the list, but blended in within the current Captain ranks.


OYS

 

[slaquer5]

I would just advise you have EXTRA outside lawyers look over any deal even after your ALPA lawyers sign off on a deal. Pay the extra money for the extra scrutiny.


OYS

We finally agree on something. ALPA sucks and can't do anything right.