SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[GlobeIII]

Some of you have seen the light and realize that this will be a great thing for everyone, others, not so much...........

Not this Southwest Pilot!!!! Other Southwest pilots feel free to chime in as I have never once heard this sentiment on the line.

 

[GlobeIII]

Not sure what you mean by that. The process agreement states that there will be binding arbitration if a negotiated agreement isn't reached. How is that "the **** hits the fan?"

I am glad Air Tran has the only "official" union member assigned to comment on Flight Info regarding the Acquistion. Haven't seen many SWAPA folks appointed as such..wonder why?

 

[texman]

I have seen the light. This deal has the potential to create growth. Now, with that being said we southwest pilots feel we have earned a right to be at swa. You can't blame us for feeling that way. GK will take care of his own first then yall. We swa pilots do respect what you have built since 1994. But that should go. Both ways. If Yall feel that GK can't crush this deal, think agian. I been trying to tell everyone on this board since day one, this is GK's game. Not some arbitrators. Yes there are laws that need to be respected, but dont think for one moment that Alpa is going to tie GK's hands. Our shareholders do respect our culture, this is what has made them money. The light AT needs to see, is Yall had no money to grow. Swa will help you. Swapa will make your life better. We Swapa pilots have nothing to gain from this, unless we grow and get a good deal out of the MISL. AT will get a great QOL , working environment, money and job security. You can't have every thing. Good luck to us all.

 

[shootr]

Not sure what you mean by that. The process agreement states that there will be binding arbitration if a negotiated agreement isn't reached. How is that "the **** hits the fan?"

The arbitrator panel doesn't just issue a list, they also issue an implementation schedule. It's laid out clearly in the process agreement.

Disclaimer...I DO want this deal to happen. I think it will be a good thing for all of us and SWA. I have friends at AT that I think are good guys and I'll be pleased to have them here.

With that said, if PCL is really a union guy and he really thinks it's all roses for you guys no matter what, your membership might need to question ALPA a little and figure out what their motivations really are. If he has that wide of a view of what could happen he doesn't understand SWA, Gary, our culture, and ALL of the agreements signed in the last few months. The process agreement gives Gary a quick timeline to see how the SLI goes. It allows him to make decisions quickly rather than waiting for a lengthy process.

I don't fear arbitration. I do think it would be harmful to the combined group and I believe Gary agrees. Our CEO wants a negotiated solution. SWAPA wants a negotiated solution. If AT ALPA does not want a negotiated solution you can kind of see how that looks to SWA. NOBODY forces our management to make business decisions. Esp. not a union. Just look at our history.

Here's a thought. Gary wants relief from our scope for the duration of the transition. We've told him that we want him to PAY us to get us to go along. MAYBE he's thinking we'll back off on the need for cash/equity if we see that he's actually backing our group up in this whole process. (I don't know this as truth, just as a possibility.) He couldn't just come out and say it but he could do it in a nuanced way. Maybe it's not obvious, yet, to some.

Again, I really do think this could be a good thing and I hope it happens in a good way. I won't be upset if something else happens, though. Many in SWAPA agree with this sentiment.

shootr

 

[On Your Six]

Arbitrator comes up with a list. Implementation date is made by SWA/SWAPA.

I think, we will come to an agreement without an Arbitrator... in my opinion.

Yeah, riiiiight. If I were an Airtran pilot, I wouldn't accept anything from SWAPA. Just let a neutral do it, with no strings attached. That will ENSURE fairness, and that is what the SWAPA guys are afraid of.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Disclaimer...I DO want this deal to happen. I think it will be a good thing for all of us and SWA. I have friends at AT that I think are good guys and I'll be pleased to have them here.

With that said, if PCL is really a union guy and he really thinks it's all roses for you guys no matter what, your membership might need to question ALPA a little and figure out what their motivations really are. If he has that wide of a view of what could happen he doesn't understand SWA, Gary, our culture, and ALL of the agreements signed in the last few months. The process agreement gives Gary a quick timeline to see how the SLI goes. It allows him to make decisions quickly rather than waiting for a lengthy process.

I don't fear arbitration. I do think it would be harmful to the combined group and I believe Gary agrees. Our CEO wants a negotiated solution. SWAPA wants a negotiated solution. If AT ALPA does not want a negotiated solution you can kind of see how that looks to SWA. NOBODY forces our management to make business decisions. Esp. not a union. Just look at our history.

Here's a thought. Gary wants relief from our scope for the duration of the transition. We've told him that we want him to PAY us to get us to go along. MAYBE he's thinking we'll back off on the need for cash/equity if we see that he's actually backing our group up in this whole process. (I don't know this as truth, just as a possibility.) He couldn't just come out and say it but he could do it in a nuanced way. Maybe it's not obvious, yet, to some.

Again, I really do think this could be a good thing and I hope it happens in a good way. I won't be upset if something else happens, though. Many in SWAPA agree with this sentiment.

shootr

Arbitration is HARMFUL to the group? Why? Because one side didn't GET what they thought they deserved? Let someone neutral decide that. And, both sides can then blame ONE PERSON, the ARBITRATOR, and not themselves or each side. It is easier to blame a person on the outside rather than the guy you are flying with. And, I bet GK just doesn't care. If he favors one side over the other, the other side will not fully embrace the SWA culture then, which would be worse. Wall Street wants this merger done, and GK knows that.


OYS

 

[Crash Pad]

Ok can we stop with the "GK will...." GK most likely can't understand how the list isn't already done. I picture this as a quote "I got a 1.4 billion deal in the works, we are fighting for DOJ approval, integrating routes and fleet types, reworking ticketing, I got a meeting with the frequent flyer guy at 2:00, catering, payroll, the list goes on and on. So what are the pilots fighting about? TEN NUMBERS ON AN 8000 NUMBER LIST!!!! You have got to be ********************ting me."

We don't know what GK thinks... So stop posting his thoughts.

Here is my next question for both sides. WHAT THE ******************** ARE WE FIGHTING ABOUT? I've seen the SWA list. I've run the numbers ten ways to tuesday. DOH, rope off the SWA top 800 then: 4 to1 or 7 to 2 etc... Rope off the top 400 then: 3 to 1, 7 to 2, 4 to 1.

IT ALL ENDS THE SAME YOU ********************ING IDIOTS!!!!

You end up integrating roughly 1000 AirTran pilots. The bottom 700 or so of our list go to the bottom of the list. Just numbers not union spin.

Wait it gets better... In fiveish years you have 1000 retirements!!!

Let me make sure I get this right. You get all our planes but only have to integrate 1000ish of our pilots. We get more money and more days off.

So I'll ask again. Assuming no staple which I think we all know is out. What the ******************** are we talking about?

 

[On Your Six]

Ok can we stop with the "GK will...." GK most likely can't understand how the list isn't already done. I picture this as a quote "I got a 1.4 billion deal in the works, we are fighting for DOJ approval, integrating routes and fleet types, reworking ticketing, I got a meeting with the frequent flyer guy at 2:00, catering, payroll, the list goes on and on. So what are the pilots fighting about? TEN NUMBERS ON AN 8000 NUMBER LIST!!!! You have got to be ********************ting me."

We don't know what GK thinks... So stop posting his thoughts.

Here is my next question for both sides. WHAT THE ******************** ARE WE FIGHTING ABOUT? I've seen the SWA list. I've run the numbers ten ways to tuesday. DOH, rope off the SWA top 800 then: 4 to1 or 7 to 2 etc... Rope off the top 400 then: 3 to 1, 7 to 2, 4 to 1.

IT ALL ENDS THE SAME YOU ********************ING IDIOTS!!!!

You end up integrating roughly 1000 AirTran pilots. The bottom 700 or so of our list go to the bottom of the list. Just numbers not union spin.

Wait it gets better... In fiveish years you have 1000 retirements!!!

Let me make sure I get this right. You get all our planes but only have to integrate 1000ish of our pilots. We get more money and more days off.

So I'll ask again. Assuming no staple which I think we all know is out. What the ******************** are we talking about?

Um, no. An arbitrator will put BOTH SWA and AT guys at the bottom of your list. That is why SWAPA doesn't want an arbitrator, and this is why AT guys want one. It also doesn't matter how many retirements you MAY have in 5 years (assuming SWA Captains don't go for age 70 next). NWA had 5 times the number of future retirments compared to the Delta guys, and the arbitrators still went fairly relative on the SLI. Also, you SWA pilots aren't giving up a dime to the AT guys, your management will be. AT is bringing younger planes to the table, whereas SWA will be retiring 735s and 733s first. Both of you have 738s on order. Even if SWA was getting more 738s in an order, they would be REPLACING old 735s and 733s leaving the fleet first. Not much growth for awhile until all of the older planes are gone. So, no argument there. Get an arbitrator or a group of them, and start from there, unless you are afraid of something....


OYS

 

[GuppyWN]

Crashpad,

I won't comment on HOW it should go down but I agree with your sentiment. I guess the fighting is 5900 WN pilots trying to protect 40 years of history/seniority and 1650 AAI pilots trying to get all they can.

Gup

 

[GuppyWN]

This is not your fight OYS and you don't know what both sides know. The Process Agreement clearly spells out that a negotiated settlement is the way to go.

Gup