SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[RLAblows]

Hey, keep the ATL operation seperate, and they will grind it to a hault. They will make SWA's on time performance go to heck. It will be fun to watch. Gary will make it a priority then to make sure you are combined, and have the SAME salaries. It's gonna happen eventually, just take the hits and move on Gup.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I don't speak for all the AT pilots, but that won't happen. It's still our job to do a good job. We are professionals, but it wouldn't be in the best interest of all the pilots if we remain separate for too long. If the AirTran side becomes extremely profitable it could make for some new plans for the AirTran side that wouldn't benefit the SW side. Not trying to start a fight, but trying to bring up a point.

 

[SWA/FO]

MAD DOG is a tranny dude.

 

[GuppyWN]

texman = IKE?

I'd love a PM on that one cause there isn't one shred of proof! IKE used his energy to sell out 95% of WN pilots. Texman is getting shot up trying to defend us.

Gup

 

[Lonestar]

Believe me...I'm not defending GL here, but I'm pretty sure your thinking of the wrong Ike.

That drunk cowboy in the movie Tombstone---IKE Clanton. First you want to kill Wyatt Earp, then you cry in front of him. Texman---IKE Clanton.

Maybe I'm missing something here... but the Ike you're referring to Gup wasn't in the movie. Just a not-so-distant bad dream for many of us.

 

[texman]

Well, I guess you haven't noticed but I've made my peace that this is out of our hands several months ago. I was happy September 26th and will be happy tomorrow. However, I still scratch my head and wonder about the spite and vitriol coming from a few on your side to the detriment of themselves and their company. Oh well, some people will never be happy........

Ok that's fair. I think we all get a little rowdy.

 

[texman]

And if you lose your seat, due to the arbitrators decision to put the domestic
Pilots under the international qualified pilots,
I hope you'll be happy too!

I'm sure that wouldn't hurt the
"Culture" either.

If I lose my seat, I will be on the street.LOL. What does international have to do with it? Your International flying is not that hard (especially 121). Did it all the time brother.

 

[texman]

IKE,

GK will let this go to arbitration so nobody can blame him (GK). If he tries to "take care" of one side, the other side will hate him and the company for years. An arbitrator will decide this, and lately it has been mostly relative, as precedent. Don't hate the trannies, and don't hate the process. It is what it is, a merger.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I knew my post's would make you come out. Where have you been? Question? Do you know that it will go to arbitration? Can you explain how Delta got that great contract back in the day. Who did Delta piggy back off of?

 

[texman]

texman = IKE?

I'd love a PM on that one cause there isn't one shred of proof! IKE used his energy to sell out 95% of WN pilots. Texman is getting shot up trying to defend us.

Gup

Thanks. I just get tired of everybody thinking they know how this shizz is going down. GK has control.

 

[texman]

Did you just finish a 12 pack of Bud Light bottles, and are now sitting on one and rotating? Kharma is probably right, you are drunk. How have you EARNED it BTW? You negotiated a contract based off of other airlines previous rates? That must have been tough. This is why I love to continue to post on threads like this. Texman allows me to continue with his attitude. I can't wait for Ty to make you do multiple walkarounds just to get it right during your 20 min turn from Amarillo to El Paso someday.

You know who you probably look and act like? That drunk cowboy in the movie Tombstone---IKE Clanton. First you want to kill Wyatt Earp, then you cry in front of him. Texman---IKE Clanton.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Country movies come on Gen. Your age is showing. What about Bonanza? Who would I be in that one?

 

[27 driver]

Yall are a bunch of dumb azzes. Until Soc, then you AT guys can get cocky. That's when the true marriage date is. For our sli. I have notice the more that comes out in the news we all get cocky. Both sides. I would like for you AT guys to ask one of our 25 year captains if the company gave them our contract. We swa pilots share the success with the company. You have to be a idiot if you think mgt has made this company successful by them selfs. Just think, 35000 employees have made this a great place to work. We have all earned it. You will be educated on our culture and will understand how swa does it. So to say SWA is getting married with AT is such a bad way to put it. I would like to think AT as a ugly high priced hooker that has kids and their toys for sale. Then daddy can figure out what to do with the new addition to the family. In the end GK will decide the fate of his family and culture. Then GK will ask yall "who's your daddy"!

So if we are ugly high priced hookers that makes you a low life who can't get laid without paying for it. Get over yourself! You are no better than any other pilot out there.

 

[texman]

OK, OK, OK! I stated the hooker thing out of fun. If you guy's don't have a sense of humor then you will have a tough time at SWA. You need a thick skin. I only used the hooker thing, because someone was stating this was a marriage. What can't I make a smart azz remark with out people getting their feelings hurt? If you have insecurities it isn't my fault. I have never stated you will be Guadeloupe pilots, be on the street, or fenced for life. I want this to be a good thing for both sides. I still feel strongly GK is in control of this whole thing. But hey I am just a pilot.

 

[27 driver]

OK, OK, OK! I stated the hooker thing out of fun. If you guy's don't have a sense of humor then you will have a tough time at SWA. You need a thick skin. I only used the hooker thing, because someone was stating this was a marriage. What can't I make a smart azz remark with out people getting their feelings hurt? If you have insecurities it isn't my fault. I have never stated you will be Guadeloupe pilots, be on the street, or fenced for life. I want this to be a good thing for both sides. I still feel strongly GK is in control of this whole thing. But hey I am just a pilot.

Take a joke man. I guess my sarcasm didn't come through like I wanted it to. You are right though. Gk and the big share holders are driving this bus. I am merely a passenger. Cya after the 2'nd of May.

 

[texman]

Take a joke man. I guess my sarcasm didn't come through like I wanted it to. You are right though. Gk and the big share holders are driving this bus. I am merely a passenger. Cya after the 2'nd of May.

Sweet! We all have are doubts how this will play out. But here is the good thing, seniority aside. The whole new list will be young at age and for the old guy's maybe at heart. But the fun will continue. I will admit, I don't take back the argument of pride and what we SWA people have built. Nor should the AT guy's and girl's. Now, with that being said you have people like Gent nuts and OYS that think people should be like them (DAL/NWA). Well AT has been fighting like a mother f oo k er in ATL with DAL and held it's own ( good for you guy's). Now, little no technology/international SWA has had to put up with DAL,AA,US,UA,CAL for 40 years. AT/SWA= Scrappy=Great Combination=Money (ROIC)=Growth=. No doubt with GK we are going big, but how will GK play it?

 

[Lear70]

OK, OK, OK! I stated the hooker thing out of fun. If you guy's don't have a sense of humor then you will have a tough time at SWA. You need a thick skin. I only used the hooker thing, because someone was stating this was a marriage. What can't I make a smart azz remark with out people getting their feelings hurt? If you have insecurities it isn't my fault. I have never stated you will be Guadeloupe pilots, be on the street, or fenced for life. I want this to be a good thing for both sides. I still feel strongly GK is in control of this whole thing. But hey I am just a pilot.

I thought it was funny...

Now, with that being said you have people like Gent nuts and OYS that think people should be like them (DAL/NWA). Well AT has been fighting like a mother f oo k er in ATL with DAL and held it's own ( good for you guy's). Now, little no technology/international SWA has had to put up with DAL,AA,US,UA,CAL for 40 years. AT/SWA= Scrappy=Great Combination=Money (ROIC)=Growth=. No doubt with GK we are going big, but how will GK play it?

Well-said, and I agree completely. With GK stating 1,000 new-hire pilots next year along with continued growth and expansion for the years after that, by the time this is done and any fences come down, we'll all likely be in the same position next year in terms of bidding placement, etc, that we are now, no matter how the list shakes out.

Growth is good, and glad to be a part of it! See ya on the line...

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Not swa. That is for sure.

I knew my post's would make you come out. Where have you been? Question? Do you know that it will go to arbitration? Can you explain how Delta got that great contract back in the day. Who did Delta piggy back off of?

 

[slaquer5]

Not swa. That is for sure.




[/COLOR]

No but they built a whole airline w/in an airline modeled off of SWA.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

That was an excuse to create a B scale airline. Mgmt. hoped it would spread to the rest. Oh, my bad it did via ch11

No but they built a whole airline w/in an airline modeled off of SWA.

 

[madjack]

Well, I have heard the Pro M/B folks state that Relative Seniority is the only Fair and Equitable solution to SLI....I am confused, and here's why:

If we go R/S then a famous poster here who has been at AAI since NOV01 would be senior to me who has been at SWA longer (still an FO). Famous poster would still be a CP and would also get a BIG raise and benefits. True I would not lose bidding power but I would not GET ANYTHING out of the deal...how is this F/E?? Just curious...

 

[GuppyWN]

Here we go! :bomb:

Gup

 

[ATLplt]

Well, I have heard the Pro M/B folks state that Relative Seniority is the only Fair and Equitable solution to SLI....I am confused, and here's why:

If we go R/S then a famous poster here who has been at AAI since NOV01 would be senior to me who has been at SWA longer (still an FO). Famous poster would still be a CP and would also get a BIG raise and benefits. True I would not lose bidding power but I would not GET ANYTHING out of the deal...how is this F/E?? Just curious...

What do you mean you wouldn't get anything out of the deal? You'd get to jerk gear for a FI legend. What else do you need?

Senior SWA FO's...always the "what's in it for me?" crowd. Your future seniority ass raping is for the greater good! Haven't you been listening? :nuts: :bomb:

 

[texman]

Boy this is going to be a long summer.

 

[Ty Webb]

If we go R/S then a famous poster here who has been at AAI since NOV01 would be senior to me who has been at SWA longer (still an FO). Famous poster would still be a CP and would also get a BIG raise and benefits. True I would not lose bidding power but I would not GET ANYTHING out of the deal...how is this F/E?? Just curious...

Famous Poster says:

Wow, a legitimate, sincere question, asked in a non-threatening or confrontational manner . . . . I must have stumbled onto the wrong forum.

Seriously . . . that's a legitimate question, and I could try to explain it from my viewpoint, as a guy who,by the time this is settled, will have already been a ATL-based Captain for 7 years, but that would just provoke more crap from some on this board, so, what's the point?

I will say that I am very glad for our MC/NC's. Not because I expect them to return form the table with some sort of undeserved prize for me, but because they are working through these complicated issues with patience, diligence and diplomacy. Not an easy task, but I hope they can return with something we can all vote for, shake hands, and move forward.

Regards,
Ty

 

[funnyman12]

To over simplify my opinion is there are four possibilities an arbitrator could rule.......1. Staple (never has happened/not legal), 2.DOH(hasn't happened recently), 3. Ratio method(most likely in my opinion), or 4.Straight relative seniority(unlikely in my opinion). If a ratio method is decided there most likely will be Airtran guys senior to some SW guys that were hired at Airtran after them.....BUT their overall position on the combined list will be higher than their current position on the SW seniority list. I may be wrong but an arbitrator will protect the SW guys in terms of their position on the combined list being at or better than their position on the current SW list. If this were to happen Airtran guys would lose a LITTLE on their position on the the combined list but would most likely have guys at SW hired before them below them. It is about bidding power and quality of life......Then again arbitrators can be a wild card and who knows the solution that will be decided.

 

[texman]

funny,

I see your logic. I can't wait for SWAPA to show the QOL and biding power of even a JR FO has at SWA. But never the less your right about the wild card. I am curious if the arbitrator will consider the 717 smaller craft and class than the 737, or the same.

 

[Beechdriver32]

Ok, so I understand- a 20 something 2001 new hire at AT who didn't meet SWA hiring mins can/should be placed above a 30 something 2001 WN new hire. Direct capt seat and a huge raise for the rest of the carrer. And the SWA guy only gets his upgrade delayed another few years. And thats fair.

Got it. Thanks.

And BTW, who said Staple was 'illegal'.
Unlikely, sure. But 'illegal', don't think so.

 

[madjack]

Funnyman, Ty,

Thanks for your rational unemotional responses. I just wanted to get a feel what the AAI guys feel is F/E. I know this is a delicate topic...but FYI, the talk on the line, especially at the FO/junior CP level is that DOH would be a huge gain for AAI at the expense of SWA pilots who interviewed, typed and did the time in the right seat at SWA. I would say some of the most emotional folks on our list are former AAI pilots that are now mid to senior FOs at SWA. Funnnyman's best guess that a ratio method that potentially places more senior DOH SWA pilots behind AAI pilots would be very contentious to say the least. What is the talk on the line at AAI...if this is too contentious to discuss pls PM me.

I agree with everyone who feels that we will grow and prosper as a combined group. The sooner we integrate the better for everybody.

If we drink G/Ks koolaid and believe we will hire another 1000 pilots post merger, the issues we are discussing will be moot.

 

[texman]

Funnyman, Ty,

Thanks for your rational unemotional responses. I just wanted to get a feel what the AAI guys feel is F/E. I know this is a delicate topic...but FYI, the talk on the line, especially at the FO/junior CP level is that DOH would be a huge gain for AAI at the expense of SWA pilots who interviewed, typed and did the time in the right seat at SWA. I would say some of the most emotional folks on our list are former AAI pilots that are now mid to senior FOs at SWA. Funnnyman's best guess that a ratio method that potentially places more senior DOH SWA pilots behind AAI pilots would be very contentious to say the least. What is the talk on the line at AAI...if this is too contentious to discuss pls PM me.

I agree with everyone who feels that we will grow and prosper as a combined group. The sooner we integrate the better for everybody.

If we drink G/Ks koolaid and believe we will hire another 1000 pilots post merger, the issues we are discussing will be moot.

I agree with the last sentence. It is in his hands though.

 

[On Your Six]

Famous Poster says:

Wow, a legitimate, sincere question, asked in a non-threatening or confrontational manner . . . . I must have stumbled onto the wrong forum.

Seriously . . . that's a legitimate question, and I could try to explain it from my viewpoint, as a guy who,by the time this is settled, will have already been a ATL-based Captain for 7 years, but that would just provoke more crap from some on this board, so, what's the point?

I will say that I am very glad for our MC/NC's. Not because I expect them to return form the table with some sort of undeserved prize for me, but because they are working through these complicated issues with patience, diligence and diplomacy. Not an easy task, but I hope they can return with something we can all vote for, shake hands, and move forward.


Regards,
Ty

I would just advise you have EXTRA outside lawyers look over any deal even after your ALPA lawyers sign off on a deal. Pay the extra money for the extra scrutiny.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Funnyman, Ty,

Thanks for your rational unemotional responses. I just wanted to get a feel what the AAI guys feel is F/E. I know this is a delicate topic...but FYI, the talk on the line, especially at the FO/junior CP level is that DOH would be a huge gain for AAI at the expense of SWA pilots who interviewed, typed and did the time in the right seat at SWA. I would say some of the most emotional folks on our list are former AAI pilots that are now mid to senior FOs at SWA. Funnnyman's best guess that a ratio method that potentially places more senior DOH SWA pilots behind AAI pilots would be very contentious to say the least. What is the talk on the line at AAI...if this is too contentious to discuss pls PM me.

I agree with everyone who feels that we will grow and prosper as a combined group. The sooner we integrate the better for everybody

If we drink G/Ks koolaid and believe we will hire another 1000 pilots post merger, the issues we are discussing will be moot.

I don't think AT will approve any outside deal that doesn't place their current Captains on the list within the current SWA Captain positions. That doesn't mean all AT Captains have to senior SWA captains, just within the mid to lower level Captain area. If that doesnt occur, I would expect them to run to arbitration. Captains now deserve to be Captains after the SLI, and that means senior to current FOs on both sides. That is likely what arbitrators would rule anyway. They don't have to be at the top of the list, but blended in within the current Captain ranks.


OYS

 

[slaquer5]

I would just advise you have EXTRA outside lawyers look over any deal even after your ALPA lawyers sign off on a deal. Pay the extra money for the extra scrutiny.


OYS

We finally agree on something. ALPA sucks and can't do anything right.