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SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

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Fair 'nuff, took it the wrong way I guess. Sure sounded like you were trying to intimidate. My bad.

Thank you sir.

The point remains that while not only does arbitration have unknowns, but also the process following such.

I suppose we can all beg to differ, but the bottom line is something negotiated has knowns for all. It also avoids the unknowns following. Additionally a negotiated settlement also gives the combined group a plan going forward, as well as a unified feeling of resolve and teamwork. So I think we can all agree it would not hurt culture. Would arbitration? Who knows?
 
Umm yeah, 1 lead and 3 total. That why I included the (s). What is it with you? Does making other people sound like they don't know what they're talking about somehow make you feel better about yourself?

I don't need to make fun of people to make myself feel better. I feel fine. What is it with you? Are you that sensitive?

Hopefully this will be wrapped up in 7 months or so and we can move on.

3 months.
 
Hopefully the Trannies will pull their heads out of their butts long enough to see the forest for the trees.

I'd give anything to get a staple onto Southwest and I'm sure that if the Trannies were to vote a straight staple would pass by a wide margin. The senior AT captains are screwing everybody at both companies!
 
I don't need to make fun of people to make myself feel better. I feel fine.

I never said you made fun.

When you thought I misspoke you made a wise ass comment correcting me. That's a sign of low self esteem, "but you already knew that"?

Anyway, if an acceptable deal is reached on our own, great. I think it's highly unlikely based on some comments I've read here. I also think that a group of people who don't have a dog in this fight will probably bring back a fair SLI.
 
The fairest integration (aside from preferential interviews) would be to staple AirTran pilots to the Southwest seniority list. I predict that's what will ultimately happen.
 
When you thought I misspoke you made a wise ass comment correcting me. That's a sign of low self esteem, "but you already knew that"?

I made a wise ass comment to correct your tranny ass. Sure, I have low self esteem.... I didn't know that.

Anyway, if an acceptable deal is reached on our own, great. I think it's highly unlikely based on some comments I've read here. I also think that a group of people who don't have a dog in this fight will probably bring back a fair SLI.

So, you wearing your ONE LUV landyard? Whats your plan B, cus Gary's got a Plan B, C, D, E, F....
 
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I made a wise ass comment to correct your tranny ass.

You still don't get it, Unbelieveable. My post required no correction and now I'm a tranny ass. Try calling me that when you're jerking my gear, junior.

You're a real smart ass from behind the safety of your keyboard.

So, you wearing your ONE LUV landyard? Whats your plan B, cus Gary's got a Plan B, C, D, E, F....

I don't wear lanyards.

And there they go again...more veiled threats. Newsflash junior, they don't work.
 
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You're a real smart ass from behind the safety of your keyboard.

I'm a smart ass in person too.

It appears you are behind a keyboard too!
 
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Thank you sir.

The point remains that while not only does arbitration have unknowns, but also the process following such.

I suppose we can all beg to differ, but the bottom line is something negotiated has knowns for all. It also avoids the unknowns following. Additionally a negotiated settlement also gives the combined group a plan going forward, as well as a unified feeling of resolve and teamwork. So I think we can all agree it would not hurt culture. Would arbitration? Who knows?


Negotiations always have bias. After the result, you always have to wonder if someone was leaned on to get a certain result. Maybe, or maybe not. They could try to sell you anything after the SLI has been negotiated by them. Not so in arbitration. Those guys have NO piece of the action. They are called neutrals for a reason. Your best bet for a fair deal is from someone who doesn't benefit either way, except other than a nice fee. THAT IS FAIR. At the conclusion, they will even write out a report to tell you why they ruled that way. REASONS, not confusion.

Southwest pilots don't want to roll the dice, they want you to take the deal, and then, and only then they will ask GK to give you their current pay. Why wouldn't your pay on the 737 be the same NOW? I think a lot of people, not only Airtran pilots, want to know why.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
I made a wise ass comment to correct your tranny ass. Sure, I have low self esteem.... I didn't know that.



So, you wearing your ONE LUV landyard? Whats your plan B, cus Gary's got a Plan B, C, D, E, F....



Here we go again. Look at what this tool just wrote. This is why you need Arbitration. Threats like this could be commonplace. Part of this whole deal needs to be fair. If you aren't getting paid the same (like other airlines did during their merger almost right away), then how about your seniority? GK wants this merger to happen, he has said it many times in the media. Could he change his mind? Maybe. I bet the hedge funds will tell him he is wrong if he does.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Here we go again. Look at what this tool just wrote. This is why you need Arbitration. Threats like this could be commonplace. Part of this whole deal needs to be fair. If you aren't getting paid the same (like other airlines did during their merger almost right away), then how about your seniority? GK wants this merger to happen, he has said it many times in the media. Could he change his mind? Maybe. I bet the hedge funds will tell him he is wrong if he does.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Unbelievable. That guy really is a tool, you're right. But, I like your new signature.


OYS
 
Here we go again. Look at what this tool just wrote. This is why you need Arbitration. Threats like this could be commonplace. Part of this whole deal needs to be fair. If you aren't getting paid the same (like other airlines did during their merger almost right away), then how about your seniority? GK wants this merger to happen, he has said it many times in the media. Could he change his mind? Maybe. I bet the hedge funds will tell him he is wrong if he does.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Wow. You call him a tool? Now thats not only ironic , but also funny.

Your post is false, misleading and illustrates your complete lack of understanding of this specific process. It also demonstrates how you fail to realize how each arbitration is specific and unique.

Good try however. Like oys, if you post enough it must come true. Let me guess, your next post will say just about the same thing.
 
Wow. You call him a tool? Now thats not only ironic , but also funny.

Your post is false, misleading and illustrates your complete lack of understanding of this specific process. It also demonstrates how you fail to realize how each arbitration is specific and unique.

Good try however. Like oys, if you post enough it must come true. Let me guess, your next post will say just about the same thing.

Where does Lee have it wrong? Every merger is different? So far, every recent merger has turned to arbitration for their SLI. And so far most involved some sort of relative integration. I can see why you might be nervous. Please, tell me why your merger is different. Is it the process agreement that each party signed that included arbitration if needed?


OYS
 
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Try calling me that when you're jerking my gear, junior.

Sure, you'll say "Landing Gear Up" and I'll say "Positive Rate Tranny Ass Landing Gear up" (then I will move the Landing gear lever with my right hand).

Remember, You'll be pulling gear for me too (everyother leg) But don't worry, I'll let you do the log book and all the walkarounds you can handle.
 
OYS/GL/-9CPT/Et.al.,

Both sides have a lot to gamble on here...SWA pilots have no contractual gains as a result of this acquisition and will probably have AAI pilots on the list ahead of them...AAI pilots gain a better contract/company/career potential/LIFE...for that they must give up seniority, the only question is how much...so what is so unfair about that?...or is it fair for the AAI pilots to keep same rel seniority, be operated separately as Guadalupe Holdings with the pay and benefits gain of the SWA contract...the latter may be the best outcome...
 
You know the BEST part about not being a Mod anymore?

"Bob Dylan is now on your ignore list."

:D

Back to (mostly) lurking... Not worth the angst with our future coworkers. You guys and gals have fun out there today! :) Going to enjoy the last of my 24 hour LAX layover; the beach was awesome, got some goodies for our back end return crew and some awesome sushi (some of the best in the country is here on the left coast). Life is good, enjoy it! :D
 
Sure, you'll say "Landing Gear Up" and I'll say "Positive Rate Tranny Ass Landing Gear up" (then I will move the Landing gear lever with my right hand).

Remember, You'll be pulling gear for me too (everyother leg) But don't worry, I'll let you do the log book and all the walkarounds you can handle.

Wouldn't it be kind of awkward to raise the landing gear handle with your right hand while sitting in the right seat?!?! I know you guys have different procedures, and I'm cool with that, but since you are an FO, maybe try using your left hand to raise the gear. Just a suggestion, I'm gonna put it out there; if you like it, you can take it, if you don't, send it right back...........
 
OYS/GL/-9CPT/Et.al.,

.AAI pilots gain a better contract/company/career potential/LIFE...for that they must give up seniority, .

Guarantee me those things and we can talk about giving up seniority.

History guarantees pay, QOL and company stability change. Ask anyone from UsAir,DAL,UAL etc. Not long ago SWA was losing pilots to all of them. Now they're on top, good for them, that will change. For all I know I might make less at SWA in a few years than I make now. Think that can't happen? Ask Capt Sully.

Comparing seniority to a current CBA is apples to oranges, a known to a variable. Arbitrators know this.
 
Guarantee me those things and we can talk about giving up seniority.

History guarantees pay, QOL and company stability change. Ask anyone from UsAir,DAL,UAL etc. Not long ago SWA was losing pilots to all of them. Now they're on top, good for them, that will change. For all I know I might make less at SWA in a few years than I make now. Think that can't happen? Ask Capt Sully.

Comparing seniority to a current CBA is apples to oranges, a known to a variable. Arbitrators know this.

Two points - although your point about history guaranteeing that pay, QOL, and company stability change is valid, it is also valid to point out that historically (without exception) SWA has exceeded AAI in every category, throughout the lifetime of AAI. There is nothing that suggests that would change in the future.

Secondly, although you are afraid of "giving up seniority", I think you have it wrong. No one is going to ask you to give up seniority, mostly because on the SWAPA master pilot list, where you will end up, you currently have no seniority status at all. What we do expect is that the seniority that you accrued at AAI will be fairly and equitably translated to appropriate seniority on the combined list. The inclusion of "equitable" in the A/M provisions implies that all seniority is not inherently equal, and that a fair solution requires making an equitable conversion. As a tongue-in-cheek example, it would be similar to coming back from Mexico and converting your pesos to dollars. Obviously, they are valued differently because they were earned in different environments and surely you wouldn't expect to receive 1 P per $1. Similarly, it would be neither fair nor equitable for the seniority you earned at Air Tran to be converted to SWAPA seniority on a 1% for 1% basis i.e. relative seniority. (BTW, my peso analogy was not meant to offend, you guys are not Mexico to our United States - probably closer to use the $ vs the Euro ;)).

As to what's "fair and equitable", hopefully our NC/MC's can figure that out. If not, it will be what the arbitration panel says it is. At the end you will "lose" all your AAI seniority as they'll cease to exist and it will be replaced with SWAPA seniority, at an exchange rate TBD. The only guarantee I will make is that you will still be senior to everyone you are senior to now :D.

Respectfully and Fraternally,
PapaWoody
 
Post of the year.

Agreed. I too agree with his assessment that it will look like the Dollar to Euro exchange rate which is approximately 1 to 1.5, straight down the list. 10 years aai=6.677 SW, etc.
 
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OYS/GL/-9CPT/Et.al.,

Both sides have a lot to gamble on here...SWA pilots have no contractual gains as a result of this acquisition and will probably have AAI pilots on the list ahead of them...AAI pilots gain a better contract/company/career potential/LIFE...for that they must give up seniority, the only question is how much...so what is so unfair about that?...or is it fair for the AAI pilots to keep same rel seniority, be operated separately as Guadalupe Holdings with the pay and benefits gain of the SWA contract...the latter may be the best outcome...

A lot of what you said happened during the DL/NWA merger. DL pilots came away with some stock, and a joint contract that gave them a 5% raise initially, and a 17% total raise for the 4 year contract. That was about it. The NWA guys got to keep their pensions, and got about a 20 or 25% raise PER HOUR, and stock. Not everyone is happy with that, and oil was at $130 a barrel and climbing at the time, so it is what it is, bad timing. But, not every group wins in a merger. But, arbitration settled the SLI in a fair manner. Someone without a stake in the merger made the decision after looking at facts and hearing testimony. Embrace that, and it will be fine.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Guarantee me those things and we can talk about giving up seniority.

History guarantees pay, QOL and company stability change. Ask anyone from UsAir,DAL,UAL etc. Not long ago SWA was losing pilots to all of them. Now they're on top, good for them, that will change. For all I know I might make less at SWA in a few years than I make now. Think that can't happen? Ask Capt Sully.

Comparing seniority to a current CBA is apples to oranges, a known to a variable. Arbitrators know this.

Why give up any seniority that you have earned? The SWAPA people don't owe you a dime, it is management who is buying you and merging you. The SWA pilots aren't losing a dime, and you are willing to just give up seniority to them? Who do you think is incharge, anyway? You DESERVE certain seniority, and arbitrators will determine where that is. SWAPA would rather have you at the bottom, and it sounds like you might be willing to give it up, for something SWAPA has no real control over. GK wants the merger, and you are a part of it.

I would say that is the WORST post of the year. Try to undserstand your part in this merger, and what you deserve. You will work just as hard as the SWA guys eventually, right? Why should you give up seniority for that? They didn't decide on this merger, GK did. Get some confidence and stay the course, and get arbitration to MAKE SURE this is fair.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

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