SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[carl p]

Like a wise man once said, "can't we all just get along"...


Maybe we should get Rodney to help negotiate the list?

 

[On Your Six]

Like a wise man once said, "can't we all just get along"...


Maybe we should get Rodney to help negotiate the list?

If you accept what SWAPA offers you, then yes, yes you can get along and maybe mingle, except on holidays and weekends, when you AT guys will be the only ones working.


OYS

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

I'm confused about you saying SWAPA and ALPA will come up with the new 717 rate. Did I miss something?

It's in the process agreement, Section 2.

As part of SLI talks, once an agreement has been reached, both unions form an "implementation committee" made up of people from each MC/NC team to work with both companies to transition the AAI contract onto Southwest scheduling and work rules, pay, and other compensation items.

From how it's been explained to me, AAI ALPA will work with Southwest Management with SWAPA as an advisor on modifying our CBA to make it possible to schedule our pilots with the efficiency SWA's schedules yours. This, combined with increased ticket prices (ours are usually lower than yours in like markets) will bring our revenue stream up to where the bag fees can be eliminated per SWA policy and also allow our pilots to transition to the TFP methodology of pay, and in changing to a TFP scheme, a rate must be agreed to for the time period between this and when the SLI is implemented and we all go to the SWA pay rate.

These changes will be done by ALPA side letter and must be ratified by the AAI pilot group per our ALPA local policy manual and bylaws. Some things don't require MemRat, but LOA's changing pay and work rules do. The only way to remove MemRate requirement is, again, to put its removal to a majority vote (and I guarantee you that such a proposal would die rather noisily). A simple MEC vote isn't sufficient to remove MemRat from the Policy Manual and bylaws.

As for LONG-TERM SWA 717 rates, of course SWAPA will work with SWA negotiating a pay rate for the 717 for the COMBINED pilot group moving forward; AAI ALPA will be an advisor in these talks, just as SWAPA was an advisor with the above changes, but the agreement will be between SWA and SWAPA.

Hope that makes more sense and again, this is how it was explained to me, so I might have lost something in translation, but it jives with the Process Agreement verbiage so I think the basics of it are correct.

 

[SWA/FO]

OY6 - is high.

As far as SLI, they (Trannies) get to vote. If it passes then it passes. Also SWAPA members get to vote. This is the quickest path for Trannies to get paid sooner, then later.

 

[Kharma Police]

OY6 - is high.

As far as SLI, they (Trannies) get to vote. If it passes then it passes. Also SWAPA members get to vote. This is the quickest path for Trannies to get paid sooner, then later.

The truth

 

[B727Driver]

OY6 is high or the SLI or both?

 

[Bake]

OY6 - is high.

As far as SLI, they (Trannies) get to vote. If it passes then it passes. Also SWAPA members get to vote. This is the quickest path for Trannies to get paid sooner, then later.

And, I believe this is how we ALL want it to go down. Please let us all come to a mutual agreement. Amen.

 

[texman]

Thanks for the reply lear. Yall this is in the hands of GK and we just need to wait and see.

 

[SWA/FO]

If you accept what SWAPA offers you, then yes, yes you can get along and maybe mingle, except on holidays and weekends, when you AT guys will be the only ones working.

....says the tool (on the end of Delta's list,) who works this exact schedule at DAL.....

 

[Bobby Orr 4]

As for LONG-TERM SWA 717 rates, of course SWAPA will work with SWA negotiating a pay rate for the 717 for the COMBINED pilot group moving forward.

Lear, long term pay rates will be the same to 737 classic fleets and -700/-800. Our -500 rates pay the same as the -800 rates. The 717 will have a similar configuration to our -500s. You heard it here first.

 

[Skyboy722]

That's great. Thanks for playing. Thanks, too for the ip addresses you guys left while visiting my profile and websites. . .

So it really is you then? I wouldn't have believed a rumor on a forum, but thanks for confirming!

 

[PCL_128]

Really PCL? Does the following update from your NC look familiar? This was part of your Sept 25, 2010, eWeekly. It was sent out PRIOR TO the announcement of the acquisition. It sure sounds like more than compensation, insurance and bonus. The open items in your negotiation were LITERALLY EVERYTHING that cost money.

That update says basically the same thing that I had said, just using more words. Things like rigs and minimum guarantee are included in compensation. There were very few items left on the table on September 27th.

A simple MEC vote isn't sufficient to remove MemRat from the Policy Manual and bylaws.

Actually, it is. The NPA Bylaws were a different story, but an MEC vote is sufficient to change MEMRAT.

 

[Lonestar]

That update says basically the same thing that I had said, just using more words. Things like rigs and minimum guarantee are included in compensation. There were very few items left on the table on September 27th.

Thanks for the clarification. I think I get it now. Y'all had already wrapped up the dicey issues such as training, leave of absence, longevity, seniority, etc. Basically the big stuff. All that remained was any section that would cost mgmt additional money. Basically the little stuff. Got it.

 

[Ty Webb]

Uh, yeah.18 sections out of 20-something. 90%. Of course, compensation was a big one.

 

[On Your Six]

....says the tool (on the end of Delta's list,) who works this exact schedule at DAL.....

Thanks to scheduled retirements via age 65, my stay at the end of the list will be very short compared to ANYONE junior at the new Southwest. Good ole GUP stated that your scheduled retirements unless your Capts go for age 70, will be a slow 150 or so a year. Not at the legacies, with DL losing 2000 Capts in the next 5 years, and 4000 in the next 10 years. So, on average, how young is that AT group? Redflyer will be very junior for YEARS after this SLI.


OYS

 

[Beechdriver32]

OY6

You are right and and are much better off where you are.

I am very envious of you. Because you are so very smart and provide such such awesome information and insight. And because you have the very best job in the industry.

Does that make you feel better?

BD32

 

[GuppyWN]

Thanks to scheduled retirements via age 65, my stay at the end of the list will be very short compared to ANYONE junior at the new Southwest. Good ole GUP stated that your scheduled retirements unless your Capts go for age 70, will be a slow 150 or so a year. Not at the legacies, with DL losing 2000 Capts in the next 5 years, and 4000 in the next 10 years. So, on average, how young is that AT group? Redflyer will be very junior for YEARS after this SLI.


OYS

Gary has said we could need 1,000 extra pilots after the deal is done - domestically. Sooner or later we're going international. This airline is still in it's infancy in some respects.

How many pilots GROWTH is Mother forecasting?

Gup

 

[texman]

Gup, I think Delta will shrink domestically so will United.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

UH oh, You've done it now....the general in 3,2,1...

KBB

 

[redflyer65]

Gary has said we could need 1,000 extra pilots after the deal is done - domestically. Sooner or later we're going international. This airline is still in it's infancy in some respects.

How many pilots GROWTH is Mother forecasting?

Gup

Gup has it exactly right.

Being at Southwest now is like being hired at Delta before they went internationally. This isn't rocket science.

 

[Ty Webb]

AirTran has announced service to Bermuda . . . . and added more flights to San Juan. San Juan service now from MCO, TPA, ATL and BWI.

You (SWA) guys wouldn't like that San Juan stuff. Once, my broken spanglish resulted in a plate of goat stew. (Not ba-a-a-a-d, either). :laugh:

 

[Bob Dylan]

AirTran has announced service to Bermuda . . . . and added more flights to San Juan. San Juan service now from MCO, TPA, ATL and BWI.

You (SWA) guys wouldn't like that San Juan stuff. Once, my broken spanglish resulted in a plate of goat stew. (Not ba-a-a-a-d, either). :laugh:

Oh man, you sound like such a female hygiene product trying to be one of 'da boyz now. Gag me.

Everyone knows a tiger doesn't change his stripes.

Meow. Here kitty kitty.

 

[RLAblows]

Oh man, you sound like such a female hygiene product trying to be one of 'da boyz now. Gag me.

Everyone knows a tiger doesn't change his stripes.

Meow. Here kitty kitty.

and saying "gag me" sounds much better?

 

[Wesb737fo]

Yep... Gag him....like Marsellus Wallace in "Pulp Fiction". I wouldn't think he would be in to that sort of thing but his obsession with Ty is making me think twice.

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey, Bobby, I think you wasted your ten bucks joining FI. No one is buying what you're selling. :laugh:

 

[On Your Six]

OY6

You are right and and are much better off where you are.

I am very envious of you. Because you are so very smart and provide such such awesome information and insight. And because you have the very best job in the industry.

Does that make you feel better?

BD32

Does that make me feel better? No. Does it validate my reason to leave crappy corporate flying and try a new career at a Major with great potential? Yes. I feel very lucky to be in my position, and not back at UAL or corporate. And, if you want to feel the same way, I might suggest you look into DAL when hiring resumes probably late this year or early next.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Gup has it exactly right.

Being at Southwest now is like being hired at Delta before they went internationally. This isn't rocket science.

Red,

Don't compare SWA to DL, especially internationally. Not only does that not JIVE with SWA's profitable business plan, but if SWA tried to fly Internationally on a larger scale (not 737s), every other worldwide LCC would jump in too (Ryanair, Easyjet, etc), and flood the market. They are just as successful in Europe as SWA is over here. Don't get ahead of yourself here. You haven't even seen the delays in ATL that you will be facing. No short approaches, no inboard runway landings, no cutting off people on taxiways, 10 min waits to cross runways thanks to 10 RJs departing, etc. Slow down, partner....


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Gup, I think Delta will shrink domestically so will United.

We are getting 60 more MD90s in the next 3 years, to replace 35 DC9-50s that will be leaving. That doesn't seem to be the case. 50 seat RJs are also leaving in droves, and there are limits on 70/76 seaters.

OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Gary has said we could need 1,000 extra pilots after the deal is done - domestically. Sooner or later we're going international. This airline is still in it's infancy in some respects.

How many pilots GROWTH is Mother forecasting?

Gup

He said you COULD need that. Supposedly DL management said the same thing during the DL/NWA merger. Out of nowhere gas goes back up to $110 a barrel. Things can change. I don't think DL is planning to shrink, getting more MD90s for domestic flying, and always looking for more INTL opportunities. I think with the number of retirements planned over the next 5 years, our pilot growth opportunities are limited by the retirements somewhat. The training facilities will be maxed out with newhires and people moving up due to retirements.

OYS

 

[B727Driver]

Are the 10 RJ’s departing a direct result of your lack of scope? Can’t blame the RJ issue on anyone else can you? At least when SWA shows up in ATL, they will keep things moving. Time is money you know.