SWA/AAI and the flight deck jumpseat

[texman]

Look! All you fu ck ers chill. If it goes to arbitration nothing we can do. If GK is not like what he is seeing then he can decide. This is all in GK's hands no matter how you look at it or what side you are on (swa/AT).

 

[Ty Webb]

You would feel the same way - if the shoe was on the other foot.

Doubtful.

When our offer to buy Midex was announced, the talk on the line (and there was a lot of it) all seemed to indicate AirTran pilots expected it to go relative. Afterall, that is how the VJ/AirTran merger went.

Even when the Midex Pilots' union issued statements in the press against the merger, I didn't see the same type of hostility from AirTran pilots toward Midex pilots as I do from many of the SWA guys on here. A few of you guys really need to get over yourselves and develop some sense of self-worth beyond your W-2's and microphalluses.

 

[waveflyer]

Hey Ty- do you judge ALL pilot groups based on FI posts??

 

[Cruncher]

Throw a suit case of Stone IPA in a giant pail of ice.

Throw some sausages on the grill.

On the side burner, put a 1/4 cup of butter, a sliced up red pepper, yellow pepper and a giant yellow onion. Let it caramelize for about 10 to 15 minutes.

(Have a couple extra packets of sausages at the ready, for when the neighbors smell the yumminess.)

With John Lee Hooker & Muddy Waters playing over the outdoor speakers in the backyard, enjoy your time above ground. The summer sun, with your hot little bride floating around the pool while the kiddos splash around, mucho better ...

Of we can go at each other's throats, to absolutely no avail. None.

Chill brothers and sisters.

-C

PS whoever had the stomach bug, hope you are better

 

[ATLplt]

Throw a suit case of Stone IPA in a giant pail of ice.

Throw some sausages on the grill.

On the side burner, put a 1/4 cup of butter, a sliced up red pepper, yellow pepper and a giant yellow onion. Let it caramelize for about 10 to 15 minutes.

(Have a couple extra packets of sausages at the ready, for when the neighbors smell the yumminess.)

With John Lee Hooker & Muddy Waters playing over the outdoor speakers in the backyard, enjoy your time above ground. The summer sun, with your hot little bride floating around the pool while the kiddos splash around, mucho better ...

Of we can go at each other's throats, to absolutely no avail. None.

Chill brothers and sisters.

-C

PS whoever had the stomach bug, hope you are better

Yay! Someone else finally gets it. There are signs of life on this planet.

 

[Lear70]

Wait wait wait. Didn't see that. Everyone after the snapshot is below everyone. DOH would still make CJ and 300 or so pilots above him junior to every AT pilot-

yeah, I don't see that happening, either. 300 Swa pilots aren't going to be all lumped together at the bottom.

All new hires since the snapshot are a cushion for everyone. I don't see how they could not.

yup, probably blended at DOH for those hired after 9/27. Just how past integrations have gone, which doesn't mean anything for certain, but is what I'd put money on for the bottom of the list.

 

[scoreboardII]

probiotics i say.

 

[SWA/FO]

If you were us, you would feel the same. We are not Midwest Airlines. We are Southwest Airlines you are Air Tran.

If you were in our shoes you would feel the same.

But there is hope - I saw my first Southwest FO with a "one luv" lanyard on. Slowly, its working guys.

 

[ASADFW7]

I am happy for the employees coming to work for a better airline, just not so excited about all the flux in the company capacitor.

 

[Cometman]

If you were us, you would feel the same. We are not Midwest Airlines. We are Southwest Airlines you are Air Tran.

For some unknown reason Airtran guys think they are equal to SWA. Maybe Midwest was equal to Airtran but how they think they are equal to SWA is really reaching far out. There is nothing equal between the two carriers. Not number of pilots, aircraft, cities served, profits, the list goes on. And the sad thing is they really think if it goes to arbitration that only seniority will be looked at.

 

[Ty Webb]

If you were us, you would feel the same. We are not Midwest Airlines. We are Southwest Airlines you are Air Tran.

For some unknown reason Airtran guys think they are equal to SWA. Maybe Midwest was equal to Airtran but how they think they are equal to SWA is really reaching far out. There is nothing equal between the two carriers. Not number of pilots, aircraft, cities served, profits, the list goes on. And the sad thing is they really think if it goes to arbitration that only seniority will be looked at.

Actually, you serve one city more than we do, and that city is probably served by Volaris.

 

[Flyarcticcat]

If my memory serves me correctly SWA has 72 cities and Airtran is less than half of that.

 

[B727Driver]

For some unknown reason Airtran guys think they are equal to SWA. Maybe Midwest was equal to Airtran but how they think they are equal to SWA is really reaching far out. There is nothing equal between the two carriers. Not number of pilots, aircraft, cities served, profits, the list goes on. And the sad thing is they really think if it goes to arbitration that only seniority will be looked at.

Don’t forget the number of AirTran pilots, Captains included, who left and went to SWA. Ty is not comparing oranges to oranges, just oranges to tangerines.

 

[scoreboardII]

Actually, you serve one city more than we do, and that city is probably served by Volaris.

Did that include your codeshare cities with Skywest?

 

[GuppyWN]

Actually, you serve one city more than we do, and that city is probably served by Volaris.

And we have 6000 pilots, 550 jets, 40 years, I say YEARS of sustained profitability with no furloughs and when you get hired at Southwest only about 1/10th of 1% ever apply anywhere else.
Plus SWAPA put a stop to what you couldn't - YOUR codeshare. :beer:
I don't mind barbeque recipes but if we're gonna lob grenades let's get our facts straight!

Ya'll have a good, safe, fun weekend.

Gup

 

[PapaWoody]

So,you think it's fair to staple 1/2-3/4 of the AirTran FO's below all the swa FO's hired after September?

As Wave clarified, those guys on both sides of the table hired AFTER Sep 27th will be effectively stapled to whatever the list looks like for the integration of the pilots on property at SWA and AAI on Sep 27th. These discussions are generally about the list as it concerns the pilots on property at the time of the announcement.

As for that, however, yes I think it would be fair if a good portion of your F/O's were placed behind our junior guy - Craig Johnson. My reasons are these:

1) Every AirTran pilots career expectations will be increased drastically by this acquisition, regardless of where they end up on the seniority list; conversely, unless they receive a relative seniority increase, every SWA pilot will actually take a hit to his career expectations due to guys being slotted ahead of him/her and the delaying effect that those extra pilots will have on his upgrade time/seniority advancement. Even without growth, your younger pilot group and dearth of retirements will adversely effect our movement up the seniority list, and this will affect every pilot on our seniority list, but none as much as our junior pilots. Craig Johnson deserves to get the benefit from our greater retirements that he expected before this announcement, or some offsetting benefit in seniority that makes up for the loss of it.

2) By virtue of this acquisition, every F/O on your list will immediately receive greater than the equivalent of an upgrade at AirTran. In pay, in benefits, in schedule quality, in career expectations and career possibilities. It's like all your F/O's are upgrading at AirTran at the same time. When I upgraded, I traded my seniority/quality of life as an F/O for mo' money as a captain and the better life it would obtain for my family. I voluntarily "stapled" myself to the captain list, and I would imagine if offered upgrade at AirTran sans this announcement, the vast majority (lets say 90%) of your F/O's would have done the same thing for the same reason. There are two differences here - one, it's not voluntary and two, they are not becoming captains. But the facts that a) you were acquired and b) this "greater than an upgrade" benefit to their career is happening to all of them at the same time (vs. 1 class at a time if they waited for an AAI upgrade) should be mitigating factors that make it more than reasonable.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match about what I think is fair and what I think isn't as for how many will be at the bottom of a combined list. That's for our NC's to decide. I am just trying to point out some very objective facts that I'm sure our NC will be ready, willing and able to argue in front of your NC, a mediator, or an arbitration panel.

Respectfully and Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[Crash Pad]

Plus SWAPA put a stop to what you couldn't - YOUR codeshare. :beer:
I don't mind barbeque recipes but if we're gonna lob grenades let's get our facts straight!

Ya'll have a good, safe, fun weekend.

Gup

Ok I have to stop you right there. We fought very hard to get that codeshare. ALPA has a long proud history of outsourcing high paying jobs. SWAPA in all its "wisdom" wants to do "all" SWA flying... it's that kind of attitude that is making this industry a race to the bottom!

 

[Cruncher]

I'm not sure If I like B727's or Flyarc's avatar more? Dunno, the white part of Flyarc's oreo, or motor boat B727's? Darn tough decision.

MCDU has good taste when it comes to the seating position.

Oops, little mama no likely-like my humor.

Hmm, back to the Stone.

PS Sanata's on, had to take a break from the sun. Pardon this post.

 

[Ty Webb]

If my memory serves me correctly SWA has 72 cities and Airtran is less than half of that.

You're living in 2001, buddy. :laugh:

http://pressroom.airtran.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=201565&p=irol-factSheet

Founded in 1993, it is one of America’s largest low-fare airlines and offers quality jet service with over 700 daily flights to 71 destinations. AirTran Airways is the second largest carrier at the world’s busiest airport, Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.

.

 

[Ty Webb]

Plus SWAPA put a stop to what you couldn't - YOUR codeshare. :beer:
I don't mind barbeque recipes but if we're gonna lob grenades let's get our facts straight!

Ya'll have a good, safe, fun weekend.

Gup

Just like we'll help ya put a stop to your codeshare . . . . Volaris.

You can thank us later, Gup!


.

 

[redflyer65]

As Wave clarified, those guys on both sides of the table hired AFTER Sep 27th will be effectively stapled to whatever the list looks like for the integration of the pilots on property at SWA and AAI on Sep 27th. These discussions are generally about the list as it concerns the pilots on property at the time of the announcement.

As for that, however, yes I think it would be fair if a good portion of your F/O's were placed behind our junior guy - Craig Johnson. My reasons are these:

1) Every AirTran pilots career expectations will be increased drastically by this acquisition, regardless of where they end up on the seniority list; conversely, unless they receive a relative seniority increase, every SWA pilot will actually take a hit to his career expectations due to guys being slotted ahead of him/her and the delaying effect that those extra pilots will have on his upgrade time/seniority advancement. Even without growth, your younger pilot group and dearth of retirements will adversely effect our movement up the seniority list, and this will affect every pilot on our seniority list, but none as much as our junior pilots. Craig Johnson deserves to get the benefit from our greater retirements that he expected before this announcement, or some offsetting benefit in seniority that makes up for the loss of it.

2) By virtue of this acquisition, every F/O on your list will immediately receive greater than the equivalent of an upgrade at AirTran. In pay, in benefits, in schedule quality, in career expectations and career possibilities. It's like all your F/O's are upgrading at AirTran at the same time. When I upgraded, I traded my seniority/quality of life as an F/O for mo' money as a captain and the better life it would obtain for my family. I voluntarily "stapled" myself to the captain list, and I would imagine if offered upgrade at AirTran sans this announcement, the vast majority (lets say 90%) of your F/O's would have done the same thing for the same reason. There are two differences here - one, it's not voluntary and two, they are not becoming captains. But the facts that a) you were acquired and b) this "greater than an upgrade" benefit to their career is happening to all of them at the same time (vs. 1 class at a time if they waited for an AAI upgrade) should be mitigating factors that make it more than reasonable.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match about what I think is fair and what I think isn't as for how many will be at the bottom of a combined list. That's for our NC's to decide. I am just trying to point out some very objective facts that I'm sure our NC will be ready, willing and able to argue in front of your NC, a mediator, or an arbitration panel.

Respectfully and Fraternally,
PapaWoody

Excellent post Papa. Dead on. This never was a merger of equals to begin with.

RF

 

[dicko]

Excellent post Papa. Dead on. This never was a merger of equals to begin with.

RF

Looking forward to flying with you too. You're gonna LUV it.

Tell us a little more about how you are contributing to the SWA culture ? I'm impressed by your upbeat, positive and team player attitude. How do you do it Red ? How do you keep it up ... Day after day ?

 

[27 driver]

And we have 6000 pilots, 550 jets, 40 years, I say YEARS of sustained profitability with no furloughs and when you get hired at Southwest only about 1/10th of 1% ever apply anywhere else.
Plus SWAPA put a stop to what you couldn't - YOUR codeshare. :beer:
I don't mind barbeque recipes but if we're gonna lob grenades let's get our facts straight!

Ya'll have a good, safe, fun weekend.

Gup

And we do what you can't. International. YOUR codeshare. :beer: We all know the facts. We had a few RJ's serving some smaller markets and you have a few 73's serving your international. Most if not everything on here is opinion.

 

[redflyer65]

Dicko,

I have to admit, I didn't come up with that saying myself. It was part of the opening arguments for this SLI.

 

[texman]

Just like we'll help ya put a stop to your codeshare . . . . Volaris.

You can thank us later, Gup!


.

That's funny!LOL! Ty what about the AT cities that are subsidize. Do those count as true cities that AT gained (because of your awesome customer service)?
SWA has never received any hand outs from a city, and never will. So how many true cities does AT bring again?LOL

 

[dicko]

Dicko,

I have to admit, I didn't come up with that saying myself. It was part of the opening arguments for this SLI.

That I believe.

Take a close look at the APA and USAPA. It's the closest you'll get to a time machine.

I don't want that for any of us. That includes you.

 

[texman]

And we do what you can't. International. YOUR codeshare. :beer: We all know the facts. We had a few RJ's serving some smaller markets and you have a few 73's serving your international. Most if not everything on here is opinion.

And just think with our (swa) customers that will increases. Thank GOD we don't work for whipsaw Bedford! Cheers!

 

[texman]

That I believe.

Take a close look at the APA and USAPA. It's the closest you'll get to a time machine.

I don't want that for any of us. That includes you.

This will never happen. Trust me playa!LOL

 

[27 driver]

That's funny!LOL! Ty what about the AT cities that are subsidize. Do those count as true cities that AT gained (because of your awesome customer service)?
SWA has never received any hand outs from a city, and never will. So how many true cities does AT bring again?LOL

Tex,
Do you have a problem with subsidies. If so why? Cities want service and pay us to give it to them. Its easy money with little to no risk. It sounds like good business to me.

 

[ASADFW7]

Like ECP for SWA?