Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[TonyC]

So, if UPS goes on strike, FEDEX pilots will not fly brown boxes??

I thought the answer to this question was fairly obvious, but since several of you have asked, I'll spell it out.

N O​

If UPS is on strike, all freight moving in the UPS system becomes struck work. FedEx pilots will not move it.

How does that prevent a UPS customer from shipping his package by FedEx? It doesn't. When the customer walks through the door of a FedEx Service Center, he is a FedEx customer, and it's FedEx freight. There's no way I can go through an entire airplane examining each box and letter and determining who shipped it and whether it would have been shipped via UPS were they not on strike. That's ludicrous. However, it's a simple matter if the container is marked UPS.

It's not that complicated a concept, really. IF COMAIR strikes, Delta pilots don't fly COMAIR trips. If American Strikes, American Eagle doesn't pick up American flights. That doesn't prevent the customers from going to the Delta counter and buying a ticket on Delta mainline, nor does it prevent a customer from flying an Eagle leg. Of course, there's only so much capacity, so somebody might be left behind.

Likewise, if NetJets strikes, it would be considered flying struck work to fly a NetJets trip. Remember Viffer when he said,

And yes, we know exactly who we are flying, and if they are NJ customers.

Good. That makes it simple. You'll know exactly what you're doing, then.

Nothing prevents those customers from buying a ticket on JetBlue, Delta, or Southwest. Maybe that's what you should practice advising them.



.

 

[h25b]

I guess what we end up with here on both sides is a perpetual state of denial and what will be will be. People like myself and MANY others are being quickly turned off to the whole deal. I haven't run in to a single NetJets pilot yet that buys in to this idea anyway so this is what it is.... A hollow threat that will simply alienate the group as a whole from the rest of the general aviation community. If you choose to bury your head in the sand and ignore the basic fact that there's already a ton of ill-will out amongst the rest of said community, well go ahead...

Bottom line is that the Part 91 corporate guys have viewed you as scabs for years and I can pretty much guarantee this is going over like a fart in church with the 135 crowd (NOONE CARES, I CAN TELL YOU THIS FIRST HAND)...

So one last question from the brilliant minds of TonyC and Starman. Types like yourselves and netjetwife are asking for support from the rest of the aviation community while simultaneously threatening them. How's that work ??? Past experience would tell me that cozying up in support of you guys would be like asking the Boston Strangler for a neck rub.

I would really like to see your logic on this one explained. What we be in it for these 135 guys/gals to risk their jobs for your cause ??? Preferential interviews at NetJets ? Access to strike pay ? Hardly ... And please don't give me the "rising tide raises all boats" B.S., please ... This union tag-line makes me about as sick as your other old standby, "brother".

 

[Viffer]

Likewise, if NetJets strikes, it would be considered flying struck work to fly a NetJets trip. Remember Viffer when he said,

Good. That makes it simple. You'll know exactly what you're doing, then.
.

It really is that simple. I will be knowingly flying a customer just the same as I have been flying that same customer all along. NJ is a customer of ours, has been and will be in the future. I could really care less why they are booked with us, they will still get the service we provide. Your problem is a lack of understanding of the scope of your labor dispute. The corporate flying community does not revolve around NJ. Your sell off trips are already a revenue stream for 135. The fact that your pilots are on strike or taking days off matters not to me, or any 135 pilot. We fly our trips, as assigned, as always. Since you keep using freight as an example think about this. UPS, if on strike, would themselves send out all the packages they had when the strike took effect, and that would include all the other freight operators, charter freight operators etc. You, by your definitions are breaking the strike if you personally flew those boxes. It is no different with people instead of boxes. It is just so much easier for the simple minded to view 135 as scab activity, as they are not able to think through the whole issue for themselves and spew the union line to the T. This kind of attitude are also the reason you couldn't function in the 91 world. We have to care about our companies future, and everything we do is to promote a safe, stable, and profitable business. That we can do that and negotiate a real salary in the process is a testament to independent thinkers. Of which you are certainly not. Clear your head and get over the 135 issue. You will feel much better about life afterwards.

 

[Capt1124]

I have been around the aviation industry for long enough to have seen this thing a few times. You can't simply redefine what scabbing or strikebreaking is to suit your purposes in this situation. And all the chest puffing and threats don't really impress anyone. It just makes you look desperate and pathetic.

Maybe you should have looked for a better job instead of taking low wages and hoping the union would somehow get you the money you wanted.

Concentrate on negotiating a decent pay package rather than threatening people in a weak attempt to improve your leverage. Remember this will be over in a few months but the professional reputation of every NetJet pilot will be affected by this for years.

 

[pilotyip]

E Gads! another voice of reality, Capt 1124 don't you know you are not suppose to deal with reality on this board.

 

[G100driver]

Starman, you are a pu$$Y. Answer the question, "yes" or "no"

Are you going to put a current ALPA member who is flying 135 on the scab list if his is dispatched to fly a NJ trip? "yes" or "no"

So far your non-aswers about struck work bla bla are dodging the question. Me thinks that the IBT has zero clout on this issue and you are merly resorting to intimidating people. Perhaps you might have better luck with baseball bats.

While still supporting the NJ cause you sound like a fool.

 

[G100driver]

And current union members wonder why so many pilots are resistant to union shops.

If fools like starman did not make such idiotic statements perhaps places like JB, Flight Options and the like might be more open to collective bargaining. Your goal should be to show pilots what a strong group can do for the insdustry. Not going rouge and make un-substantiated statements that mearly erode the support that you have outside of NetJets.

Good luck anyhow, you guys desrve better than what you are getting ... even if fools represent you.

 

[prpjt]

If UPS is on strike, all freight moving in the UPS system becomes struck work. FedEx pilots will not move it.
How does that prevent a UPS customer from shipping his package by FedEx? It doesn't.
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Tony, a serious question. Are you saying that UPS as a company would be denied becoming a Fed Ex customer? I think that's what you are saying.

I was just wondering, if this is the case, how your illustrious leader planned to carry out his plan to move boxes on pax carriers a few years back. Thanks.

Hope this isn't too much of a hijack.

 

[414Flyer]

Oh come on. Some of you are living in the past when words meant something and had specific meanings.

You are forgetting its a new touchy feely world, where words can mean anything you want it to be, meanings are flexible, with no real definitions if you dont think so. Its your feelings and emotions about it that are important. If you feel someone is a scab, thats all that matters anymore.

Its 2005, get with it

 

[LXJ31]

Let me get this straight, there will be list detailing who decided to keep paying their mortgage by flying an NJA sell-off, but where is the list for those who honored their strike by getting fired for not flying the same trip? Is that the part about the rising tide and goodwill etc.?

I think they are being short sighted on this issue; if such a strike occured and NJA started chartering left and right, the market forces would be the NJ pilots' best friend at that point. The supply of charter lift would dry up, the price would go through the roof and the unfortunate passengers would be getting scheduling windows measured in days, not hours. It would be a crushing expense. If NJ just stopped flying all together, they would lose customers, but they would be holding on to their cash. (I don't think that many customers would bolt as they'd be getting raped on the selling price if too many sold at the same time. They would buy 25-50 hour cards on the other operators.) On top of that, if normal NJ customers are not having their trips sold off, alot of those folks will fly First Class on 121 in the interim, they might decide its not so bad and worth the inconveniences relative to bizjet flying.

I'd like to see NJ pilots get paid more, but threatening pilots beyond arm's length fails, in my view, the cost-benefit.

 

[Boeingman]

This thread is like a car accident. You just have to stop and take a look.


G200, Johnny, Viffey, H25...I noticed they still can't answer some of your very simple direct, logical questions. G200 made a good point about taking pay at such a lower industry rate to begin with. It seems like a hypocritical point of view to be in a position now to demand help and honor a very flimsy position since lowwages at NetJets has affected the pilots they are now asking for support.

El Chup,I call BS on your story. 1) In our indoc and "familiarization" a.k.a penance tour, it was clearly made known to us that type of behavior would have serious consequnces up to termination. 2) There is no real surface animosity between the scabs and the "crawlbacks". The guys who returned, like myself came back knowing what the score was. 3) How did you get a jumpseat on CAL working for a frac company?

ALPA support? That has to be the funniest idea posted so far. ALPA can not even support it's own members, let alone you guys. I'm not sure who is pumping this union brotherhood, honor our line at all costs sunshine up your collective arse's, but you guys are seriously out of touch if you think a walkout would even be remotely successful. Take it from somebody that spent 25 long months on strike in an airline environment where the lines in the sand were, in theory, more defined. Those lines shift very rapidly the minute the picket line goes up. How about all those Delta pilots tripping over themselves to fly extra sections when Eastern Walked? What about our brothers at United in Denver or Eastern in Houston during our strike?

There are to many ways to circumvent your flying guys. To many pilots that have zero recourse if ordered to fly or protections if they refuse, to many pilots out of work (huge miscalculation in 1983 for CAL ALPA). Further, this is a bitter pill to swallow, you don't own the airplanes. That QS tail registration on the surface may seem like a benefit, but all that it takes is a simple transfer of the aircraft to a new corporation or sale of aircraft and you are SOL. Assuming the walkout even was able to withstand the test of time to allow that to happen.

I would just hate to see people throw their careers away for nothing. Well, I guess as G200 said for 1/3 of the industry rate anyway. To leave the cockpit in this environment is insane. Your efforts would be much better served to keep intense pressure on negotiations through all available means.

 

[G100driver]

Boeing, excellent reality check.

BTW I think Slowto250's post was sacasm directed that the ridiculous posts about scabbing ect.

 

[Boeingman]

Boeing, excellent reality check.

BTW I think Slowto250's post was sacasm directed that the ridiculous posts about scabbing ect.

Thanks.

After re reading his post, you are most likely right so I am going to edit that out.
I was getting a little cross eyed reading through all this. I guess that is what happens when your jaw has dropped to the point where it stretches the eye lids

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Boeingman - excellent post.

 

[h25b]

You're assuming that we don't know what screening method Netjets uses to approve vendor aircraft? You're assuming that we don't have access to the list of vendors that provide supplemental lift for Netjets? You're assuming that the screening information for those companies including pilot names isn't available to us?

I'm telling you that we have that info. How are your assumptions now?

Did everyone notice that Starman (a.k.a. Mr. Intelligence) deleted this post due to "drunken ramblings" ???

Perhaps some of his "brothers" are reigning him in a bit ?

Care to comment Starman ?