Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[h25b]

But you were more than welcome to throw it around to suit your needs. I challenge you to find in my post, ANYTHING regarding ASAP, SCABS, or anything not directly referred to in YOUR post. Don't go dragging that other mess in there to distract people, I said nothing about that and I'm not getting drug into that debate. Nor did I say anything about 135 guys being accountable.....I said your company's decision to blame NJA pilots for their dislike of NJA (the company) was, to use your word, juvenile.

Now here's an ironic observation:
A few short years ago, non-EJA pilots were complaining about our union not having a backbone, not doing anything, and our low pay.

NOW:
Now we have a union in place that has some real teeth and are doing something about "the problems," and suddenly we are being accused of asking for too much.

Obviuosly you and netjetwife are cut from the same mold.

You all stand around the battle cry of, "MY UNION SPEAKS FOR ME!!!" And then when they come out with this kind of garbage you all scatter like ants. I am not doing anything to suit my needs (at least on this board) ... Read my posts !!! I was just pointing out the fact that there's already some bad blood out there that might make your present course of action inherently unwise. As for not getting drug in to that debate ... Well sir you can't have it both ways, your union speaks for you or it doesn't. I'll leave you to figure that one out on your own . Your union is the one drawing battle lines in the sand and forcing the 135 guys who have no "dog in the fight" in to this mess. So it would seem somewhat hypocritical for you to pick and choose which messes you want to be a part of...

One of your own pilots agreed with me in one of the previous posts by saying, "we're poking the wrong bear..."

Your union finally having some teeth I guess is commendable, what's being questioned is who they bite with them. I would recommend putting your jaws around your company and not some poor b&*tard charter pilot trying to put food on the table. Again, you guys are picking this fight and are the ones throwing things around. Get a clue ...

If Netjets was so mean to you, why would you even consider doing a charter for them? After all, they tried to shut you down "twice"!

AGAIN, read my posts... I think I even stated that our aircraft has never been assigned a NetJets sell-off. Astonishing that you don't understand.. Most charter pilots HAVE NO CHOICE in which trip they accept. It's "fly it or find another job." Good gravy, if this is truely the depth of your understanding of the industry, you've got big troubles...

 

[Traderd]

I tried some time back to ascertain if such a list exists or if it is an urban myth. /QUOTE]

If you couldn't find the master aviation scab list on the internet, you weren't looking very hard. Here's the first one that popped up on my search: http://www.fracpilot.com/Scabs%20by%20Name%20May04.PDF

Thank you very much. I had found the frac pilot website but didn't see the link. My mistake.

Looks like it is a list of "scab" airline pilots linked to a fractional pilot's website. It doesn't indicate who is responsible for the maintenance of the document and I don't see anyone credited for the document itself. Does everyone in the industry have confidence in the accuracy of this document? Is this the one being used by the CPs at all of the majors and fractionals?

It still seems to be an unworkable concept. More for emoitional support than actual results. If there are actual results that can be attributed to this tactic, how are they manifested and how are they verified? Aren't the salaries commanded by pilots currently on the decline? I would assume what is sought are results. Do you believe that without scab lists your situation would be even worse?

Right now, it would appear there are too many pilots chasing too few seats. Efforts like this look like an attempt to control the price paid for a commodity in oversupply at the point of consumption.

I would not risk dollars in a belief that this would work with any commodity, unless regulation of the commodity is a given. It would seem to be more effective to work at controlling the supply of the commodity, as is done with the AMA.

 

[G100driver]

Crack's me up that the great Clay Lacy is on this list.

 

[Ultra Grump]

I think that would be unwise. Many lawers would love for this kind of case. If this does happen, it happens behind the scenes.

It may, but ultimately how would that affect the scab trying to get hired? Usually (and especially, in our case) it's an HR person's call who gets hired, and they typically don't know or care about scab lists.

Do you J.S. a lot with NJA? More details needed.

No, but this isn't the only job I've ever had. I jumpseated every week in my previous job.

IF they are on board (i hate that term) with SU, I am giving them a pass.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. These guys are scabs, yet you'll "give them a pass." So what was the punishment (for lack of a better word) for them being scabs? Nothing.

Virtually every airline has scabs on their lists. So what exactly are the disincentives for these guys to go to work and do their jobs?

120+K a year. That may do it.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. I was asking since there seems to be no real teeth in the scab list, why shouldn't the charter guys go to work and do their jobs just like every other day?

To me, if you cross our line, take a job flying our airplanes, you are a scab. Period. This is how it has always been and how it should remain. If you are a charter pilot flying your company's plane on a chartered trip (no matter who chartered it), you are not a scab. That's my opinion, and in my opinion we'd be foolish to try to label charter guys just doing their jobs as scabs.

 

[Hogprint]

As I stated yesterday:

The actions of few, unfortunately weigh heavy on the multitude. Law Suits, Scab Lists, Seniority List stable threats and self righteous claims of being superior to all others have left NJA pilots with little support from their fellow corporate pilots and the aviation community as a whole.

Point well taken with your post, but you have to drop this "self righteous claim of being superior to all others"...

That is Madison Ave. talking, not any NJA guys that I have seen on this board. Somewhere about 100 posts ago, someone spelled it out for you, but I will do it again...we are just using the company's tag line against them.

Negotiations 101.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Hog,

I think a guy like you falls into the 98% group, which I have nothing less than complete respect for.

Its always the 2% that takes thing overboard. I agree, most NetJets Pilots carry themselves with honor and do not look down on others.


PS. I was Army for 8 1/2 years, and I know what a hogprint is......

Take care

 

[Hogprint]

Thanks for the support Wolfpack and thank you for your service to our country!

I hope that the path we choose will be satisfactory to all parties involved directly or indirectly.

ps.
Since your a brother in arms, you wont get a hogprint! Unless of course your a Blackhawk bubba!

 

[GVFlyer]

Crack's me up that the great Clay Lacy is on this list.

I found a Congressional Medal of Honor recipient on it: Michael Joseph Novosel.

GV

 

[G100driver]

I found a Congressional Medal of Honor recipient on it: Michael Joseph Novosel.

GV

I will have to look that up in the book that Gulfstream gave me ...

 

[G100driver]

Looks like it is him. Profile matches.

Too bad he tarnished himself. Ironicly he earned the Medal of Honor after he scabbed. Trying to redeam himself? Probably not.

 

[netjetwife]

I'm a 135 pilot and I'd hate to be labaled a scab. So with that in mind if American Airlines went on strike and there passengers that got stranded flew on Delta instead does that make the Delta pilot a scab ???? I'm not sure what is wrong or right but I don't think other charter operators that end up flying some NJ pax should be labaled a scab. Good luck guys hope you get want you need and deserve.

The difference, as it has been explained to me, between that airline example and the NJ situation, is the PRIMARY PURPOSE of the flight. In your example, the pilot was already taking the flight with his/her company's px, regardless if others climbed aboard. Charter pilots taking a flight that was arranged by NJA to fly NJ px, are flying struck work. They are replacing the NJ pilots that are trying to legally apply leverage to the company, as a last resort.

No one rushes into a strike; it is seen as a last option. After all this time--3.5 yrs--and a much stronger negotiating team backed up by pilot surveys, it should be obvious that the NJ pilots have tried hard to work things out. They are currently using informational picketing to get their message across. IF the pilots are FORCED into a strike, wouldn't you agree that shorter is better? The more pilots standing together for fair wages the stronger they will be and the quicker a resolution will be found.

I just thought giving a fair warning was the right thing to do. If there are less NJ pilots discussing the issue now, it is because they believe that management also reads this board--a reasonable assumption--and aren't willing to get into any conversations from which the other side may glean information. I'd like to make a different request from my original pitch for support. It goes back to what we were taught as children. IF YOU CAN'T SAY SOMETHING NICE, PLEASE DON'T SAY ANYTHING. This has nothing to do with avoiding your ire; it is all about asking charter pilots not to let management know where you stand on the issue. If you don't care and will take the flights anyway, then please, at least, keep that to yourself. Can't you do that small favor for pilots that are risking a lot to pull wages up for everyone in the industry?

To those of you who have said something nice, our thanks!

 

[G100driver]

netjetwife, you should just drop this. While we all support you, no one ... I mean NO ONE is going to risk their job in support of a company that do not work for. Especially if you do not have representation.

Just drop it and say thank-you for the kind words. You are losing this one and look like an idiot the more you write about it.

 

[FAcFriend]

NJw
do not want to get into conversation where Management can "glean" any information?

You remind me of my children playing "comando" in the back yard.

Charter companies are not other "countries" that you are getting to support your cause and asking to chip in financially so your family can succeed. They are real people with real mortgages who chose not to work at net jets.

This is not about "integrity" as you have suggested- it is about money- your money. NOT my money, not charter pilots money...it is about YOUR husbands paycheck and how many hours he has to work to earn it.

If it was about "integrity and respect" as you have said, you are saying your "integrity and respect" can be bought and sold with a better contract.

I have more faith in your integrity than that.

 

[netjetwife]

G100 Driver, please reread my post above yours. Didn't I basically just do as you request, complete with the thanks for the kind words? My post was directed at Kilroy who HAD expressed concern and asked a question. I felt that he deserved an answer. From now on, as far as this subject is concerned, I'll be replying only to posts like that. The union's position has been made known (yes the explanation I posted came from the top) and I'm under no illusions about the feelings of SOME--how many remains to be seen-- of the charter pilots. We have agreed to disagree, and I DO understand their reason, just as I see the NJ pilots' reasoning.

Quoting from the May 10th NY Times--"Steady growth is being seen in fractional shares, in the hiring of charter business jets, and in time cards...." In this article we learn that NJ saw a 28% increase in their contracts in 2004, over 2003 levels. Now it is only fair to address business for THIS year, as well. According to Mr. Santulli, "The demand we've had in the last four to five months has been incredible."

A RISING TIDE SHOULD LIFT ALL BOATS--FRACTIONAL AND CHARTER

ALL PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE PAID ACCORDINGLY

 

[johnny taliban]

I'm under no illusions about the feelings of SOME--how many remains to be seen-- of the charter pilots.

NJW,
actually you are falling prey to an illusion if you think the threat of a "scab list" is going to make ANY CHARTER PILOT think twice about DOING HIS JOB. I wasn't sure earlier but am now COMPLETELY convinced that the "scab list" threat demonstrates your union's lack of confidence that a strike will do anything but cause your owners (customers) to simply take their business else where and leave your pilot group with noth'n. IMHO the problem you guys have is that a strike is not just against your management but may also be seen as a strike against your owners(A.K.A customers). Now thats a tough situation to be in.

Good luck,
Johnny

 

[netjetwife]

As I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree. But thanks for wishing us luck.

 

[gray eagle]

Latest AIN alerts indicates that NJA Pilot's Union and NJA Management further apart now than before the informational picketing conducted during the recent share holders meeting. Anyone care to comment as to the validity of this article?

 

[English]

I just thought giving a fair warning was the right thing to do.

Here's fair warning for the right thing for you to do...get a job and stop living vicariously through your husband!

 

[Hogprint]

Don't read too much into this...we have been close on most, but FAR away on the things that count.

I do not feel the IP has contributed to us being farther apart. If anything it has helped our postion with our owners. A few are opening up to crews on the road, and they know a load of BS when they see it and have said as much.

Eagle, did the article give any specifics? I'll look for it when I go out in a few days.

 

[FAcFriend]

English-

that was harsh to NJW- In some families, the husband and wife work as a team. If there is one thing you have to respect is her teamwork and support to her marriage and their committment for her to be home with her children. There is no fault there.

you can disagree with her politics but she DOES have a job- she is raising kids.