Southwest off the runway at MDW

[sluminginpit]

I stand corrected on SWA being ALPA, but that doesn't change the remainder of my post.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

I think alot of the joking including my previous post was made prior to realizing there was a fatalitity. Originally, the news made it sound like broken bones were the extent of the injuries in the vehicles. Very unfortunate situation indeed. The Burbank accident had some funny pictures with the gas station and all and with everyone okay, was a little comical. This accident has turned into tragedy. Sometimes heaven calls early.

 

[Viffer]

God be with all those involved.

I'm not saying that maybe tonight is the best time to ask, but I dont think asking about contaminated runway procedures is showing "no class". Discussions involving safety issues like this help people become more safety conscious, and it gives others a chance to learn something maybe they didnt know.

Thank you. This is a board for pilots to discuss events, situations, procedures, sometimes in light of a tragic event. Anyone who doesn't want to learn something to make themselves safer is not meeting the definition of professional. I have a huge incentive to not repeat those circumstances, and was asking a question to all of you about how airline numbers are handled. I am a frequent passenger of your's after all, and do want to know. I also have a serious doubt about a Boeing's being able to meet the required length under those circumstances, and discussing this on a pilot board is 100% appropriate. Thanks to those who helped answer this for me by PM, and to those that take offense at the question, I appologize. I hope that the answer to that landing is not what I suspect. I know too many 91/135 operators who ignore contaminated runway charts as it is, and really do hope for better from the 121 operators.

 

[Ty Webb]

I know too many 91/135 operators who ignore contaminated runway charts as it is, and really do hope for better from the 121 operators.

I don't know where you aviate, but if this is true, maybe you need to upgrade your circle of acqaintances . . . . when I flew 135, part of my approach brief always included the required runway and runway available.

Also, 121 operators don't use "contaminated runway charts", at least we don't where I work. The equation is reversed ie they tell you what your max weight for landing can be, with corrections for MEL's or things like EAI . . . they don't give actual runway length . . . . although that info is available in the AOM.

 

[filejw]

Viffer,
Any landing made with less than 300 and 3/4 wet landing #'s must be used.This increases the landing distance required by a factor of x over dry landing distance's.I forget what the # is because we use wet for every landing except by request of dispatch or load.I've been asked once in my 16 yrs as a capt to make a dry landing and that was on a 727 into MDW. In addition runway condition reports must be used.Braking action reports are giving as either good,fair,poor, nil as reported by other A/C or a # from a device mounted on a truck that the airport authority would use to check the runway. Low #'s or nil closes the R/W till improvements have been made.(plowed sanding)Some airlines have other constraints that they put in their FOM that may restrict landing on R/W's with less than good braking.Such as no tailwind or lower xwind limits.

 

[MJG]

I think that number is 15%, at least at our airline for landings less than 4000RVR or less than 3/4 mile vis. Our airline now requires us to conduct monitored approaches under these circumstances so that we don't have to take that 15% hit on the landing distance. Something about pilots tend to look up at minumums and naturally tend to go high on the glide when transitioning from instruments to visual references when landing in low vis.

I haven't bothered to read all ten pages of this topic but this is a tragic accident. Midway is a tough landing in all but the best weather conditions. The fact that this doesn't happen more often is a miracle in it's own right. Let's not play MMQB here, the media is already running away with that. (I wanted to punch Miles O'Brian and his expertise in the face already a couple times this AM).

 

[PacoPollo]

Good Luck with the Wright Amendment thingy.....

 

[PHXFLYR]

Prayers to all ......

PHXFLYR

 

[Going2Baja]

My family's hearts and prayers go out to the families of the injured and dead. It amazes me that some here make light of this situation. Most, if not all here give up many holidays and special events to work and provide for our wives/husbands and especially our little ones. Yesterday someone lost their child in a tragedy that NONE of us know the cause. Stop and think for a second if you were that child’s family, or even the family of one of the SWA pilots. There lives have changed forever in a split second. The holiday season/spirit may be gone forever for these individuals. And here some of you sit and make light. For any of you (E120ASA, Hoke) I hope for your sake you don't have kids and that you guys are Sky Gods, because the Karma train is headed your way and that is one bullet you just can't get out of the way of!

To Admin or moderators: Another board (non-aviation) I belong to from time to time, when the situation warrants, takes a collection and delivers it to special people in need. If the family of the child can be determined and you are willing to, I'd like to donate to a Christmas fund for this family. After all funds are collected a check in the name of Flightinfo.com could be sent to this family. We have two weeks to get this together if you would so choose.

Prayers to all those involved.

Baja

 

[Remington]

I think alot of the joking including my previous post was made prior to realizing there was a fatalitity. Originally, the news made it sound like broken bones were the extent of the injuries in the vehicles. Very unfortunate situation indeed. The Burbank accident had some funny pictures with the gas station and all and with everyone okay, was a little comical. This accident has turned into tragedy. Sometimes heaven calls early.

Why is it okay to make fun of an accident when there is no fatality? I think we have answered the blue/white coller questions.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Well we don't want his ass. He can go ****himself. So can the rest of you folks that have taken the time on this board to take cheap shots at Southwest.

This a a very sad day.. for all of us at SWA.

Hey SWA/FO, I am glad to see that you traded your F word for some stars there. What you originally had was unacceptable and unprofessional and you are not worthy of being with everyone else here. You have shown us all your true colors and dont have any class either based on your previous comments. You need to learn to contain yourself, act like an adult and be respectful of others. Dont use the F word again here.

My prayers are with all at SWA and the family of the little boy.

 

[wndshr]

you little #$%^&*()

you get what you pay for.

if anyone at ASA knows this filth I hope you deal with them in a manner appropriate to this level of insensitivity. unfortunately, this clown has painted an ugly picture of ALL ASA pilots....for a LONG TIME!

to all SWA PILOTS, CREWS and Families and ground victims....my heart and prayers go out to all involved in this tragedy. i am absolutely SURE it could have happened to anyone of us out there that carry the responsibility of operating aircraft in commercial aviation.

 

[filejw]

MDW is a joke for airline ops.What is the landing distance after the glide path on most of those R/W's 4800 or 5000 feet.I don't care how sharp you are eventually somebody will go off a wet or snowy R/W even if you fly the thing perfect.
Chicago politics at its best going back to about 1968.They told the people in the neighborhoods around MDW just corporate and private flying.Then money got involved.

 

[Guitar rocker]

if anyone at ASA knows this filth I hope you deal with them in a manner appropriate to this level of insensitivity. unfortunately, this clown has painted an ugly picture of ALL ASA pilots....for a LONG TIME!

to all SWA PILOTS, CREWS and Families and ground victims....my heart and prayers go out to all involved in this tragedy. i am absolutely SURE it could have happened to anyone of us out there that carry the responsibility of operating aircraft in commercial aviation.

I couldnt agree more with you wndshr. Hey ASA kid, be a man and apologize to all here and to all at SWA for your most inappropriate comment you made last night.

 

[PCL_128]

if anyone at ASA knows this filth I hope you deal with them in a manner appropriate to this level of insensitivity. unfortunately, this clown has painted an ugly picture of ALL ASA pilots....for a LONG TIME!

Don't be ridiculous. There's no reason to look down on the whole ASA pilot group because of this one guy. In my experience, the ASA guys have been some of the most professional regional pilots out there. Don't mistake one guy's inappropriate comment for the feelings of the entire group.

 

[wndshr]

Don't be ridiculous. There's no reason to look down on the whole ASA pilot group because of this one guy. In my experience, the ASA guys have been some of the most professional regional pilots out there. Don't mistake one guy's inappropriate comment for the feelings of the entire group.

you are right...may be ridiculous...but it is reality. this person took a chunk of respect out of the rest of the pilot group! what a shame!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

As an ASA pilot, I can say that I don't echo E120ASA's sentiments nor do the vast majority here. God knows we are all one unfortunate move away from being in the news. I know I've rolled off the highspeeds before and wanted to kick myself for not have doing something different on the flight, whether it be continuing an approach or flying through weather that didn't look too bad on radar. You name it, we've all been there at one time or another.

Most of us at ASA know our crap stinks too, as we've had our share of incidents that fortunately turned out alright.

My prayers to the family that lost a child last night and to the crew that has to deal with that now.

KARMA PEOPLE.

 

[Mud Eagle]

You have shown us all your true colors and dont have any class either based on your previous comments. You need to learn to contain yourself, act like an adult and be respectful of others. Dont use the F word again here.

Do you seriously equate someone's professionalism as an aviator with how often they use 'f*ck' in conversation or on an internet discussion board?

By that standard, about 90% of aviators I know certainly are un-professional.

 

[Guitar rocker]

You have shown us all your true colors and dont have any class either based on your previous comments. You need to learn to contain yourself, act like an adult and be respectful of others. Dont use the F word again here.

Do you seriously equate someone's professionalism as an aviator with how often they use 'f*ck' in conversation or on an internet discussion board?

By that standard, about 90% of aviators I know certainly are un-professional.

Mud Eagle..........yah, I agree with you but not in a public venue like this. There are some simple rules on this site that we out of common respect towards others should follow. What SWA/FO said was unacceptable and if you noticed, he had to change his previous F word to stars. You really shouldnt have to ask this sort of question.

 

[Reebo]

Fair enough, this is all I will post. I still wonder though, how when our 15,000 lb airplane with a 95 knot ref can't meet a 135 landing there, how can a 737? Sorry to bother you.

Heavier aircraft, better braking abilities, and more powerful reverse thrust.