Southwest Line on Credit?

[Ualexpress]

Sounds like a great program. I was just curious "who" was inputting the data. So I assume the rampers just delivery the cargo load sheet and then the rest is up to the pilots.

That is exactly correct. Rampers usually deliver the ramp load to the pilots a few minutes before door close and the pilot inputs it along with fuel on board, Pax, runways anticipated (up to 3 can be inputed), runway conditions, and various power settings desired for T.O. (TO1, TO2, and/or Assumed Temp). Usually results are returned in 15-30 seconds. The pilot then Accepts or Rejects the results. If accepted the flap setting and Vspeeds are populated in the takeoff page. The ZFW is populated in the Perf page.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I was just going to tell him to F off. But I like what you said better.

He said the same thing but wasted more time typing it. The feeling is mutual.

 

[humveedriver]

Sounds like a great program. I was just curious "who" was inputting the data. So I assume the rampers just delivery the cargo load sheet and then the rest is up to the pilots.

That's it. Peep count, bag count and fuel. Like the OPC you will have some pilot inputed options like manual speed brakes and anti ice. Mel/CDLs are added by the dispatcher. All performance considerations are computed for you, like climb gradient. With any automated system it's going to make you lazy and dumb, so you will develop your own sanity check to make sure it's accurate.And it works just as good in Mexico City as it does in ATL. In fact the only occasional hiccup is antennae location at the station. Currently I think MDW is the only one with spotty coverage at the gate, but numbers come up after push. It will boil down to IPad replacing the OPC or Aerodata in a likelihood.

 

[redflyer65]

How long are you going to keep up these little snipes?

honestly, hiw long are you going to run with the ilkusion that you got screwed and swa pilots are so awful?
Nobody said we were better, we said the job was better and more difficult to get. We were also the buying carrier. All of which are seniority issues. What's more arrogant is AT pilots getting their company bought and fully expecting to screw with the process and have the final outcome be Relative seniority, or what was it that PCL said: ' worst case scenario for AT pilots should be date of hire(!)' really?

Your problem is buying into alpa's divisive expectations about what you "deserved"

No idea what you line guys actually wanted in that deal,
seriously, none...

Exactly Wave!

ALPA's game plan was to run out the clock on the whole process. They had no desire to pass ANYTHING that came from the MC. NONE.

They knew the SWAPA contract would be there in the end. Money, QOL, stabilty, etc. All of it. Just get it to arbitration, at all cost.

Bad move for the 1700 pilots of Airtran. Every one of them.

Done and over.

 

[HA25]

Exactly Wave!

ALPA's game plan was to run out the clock on the whole process. They had no desire to pass ANYTHING that came from the MC. NONE.

They knew the SWAPA contract would be there in the end. Money, QOL, stabilty, etc. All of it. Just get it to arbitration, at all cost.

Bad move for the 1700 pilots of Airtran. Every one of them.

Done and over.

sorry to have to ask, but can someone give me the cliff notes version of what exactly the Air Tran pilots got? I know a friend of mine that was hired and made captain in 05 is still going to remain a captain post-WN merger, so that doesn't sound bad to me on it's face, or am I missing something?

What's the domicile fence like, is there one?

 

[redflyer65]

The first agreement, the one the ALPA turned down had...

10 year CA seats for AAI.
10 base fences for ATL for AAI.
SW pay and benefits almost immediately.

The second deal wasn't so generous.

Zero CA seats, no fences what so ever. No SW pay until transitioned over. Slightly more seniority for AAI, slightly.

ALPA thought they knew better. Everyone else paid a heavy price for that arrogance.

 

[HA25]

The first agreement, the one the ALPA turned down had...

10 year CA seats for AAI.
10 base fences for ATL for AAI.
SW pay and benefits almost immediately.

The second deal wasn't so generous.

Zero CA seats, no fences what so ever. No SW pay until transitioned over. Slightly more seniority for AAI, slightly.

ALPA thought they knew better. Everyone else paid a heavy price for that arrogance.

Deal one was what I guess my friend told me about last year... deal two sounds VERY bad.... there are 20+ year CA's there, right? so now they're all FO's?

Also, this 10 year fence... does it have gates? or is there a total base bid freeze in and out for 10 years? I don't get it..

 

[redflyer65]

Deal one was what I guess my friend told me about last year... deal two sounds VERY bad.... there are 20+ year CA's there, right? so now they're all FO's?

Also, this 10 year fence... does it have gates? or is there a total base bid freeze in and out for 10 years? I don't get it..

The fence was in Deal #1. It doesn't exsist at this point. I can't remember about bidding around the fence because as soon as ALPA voted it down, it didn't matter anymore.

NOW...as AAI guys transistion over, they are FO's. After 2015, if there is a NEW CA seat, they can bid for it...if their seniority can hold it. Jan 2015 you hold what you can hold.

 

[humveedriver]

sorry to have to ask, but can someone give me the cliff notes version of what exactly the Air Tran pilots got? I know a friend of mine that was hired and made captain in 05 is still going to remain a captain post-WN merger, so that doesn't sound bad to me on it's face, or am I missing something?

What's the domicile fence like, is there one?

Your friend will first downgrade to FO and then be eligible for upgrade in 2015 if there is a vacancy. If that vacancy is created by an AT transition aircraft, then he/she is not eligible for that vacancy. It has to be through retirements or growth for us to reupgrade. It is possible you spoke to your friend prior to SWA announcing the removal of the 717 from their fleet, that changed alot of expectations on both sides.

 

[PCL_128]

Exactly Wave!

ALPA's game plan was to run out the clock on the whole process. They had no desire to pass ANYTHING that came from the MC. NONE.

They knew the SWAPA contract would be there in the end. Money, QOL, stabilty, etc. All of it. Just get it to arbitration, at all cost.

Bad move for the 1700 pilots of Airtran. Every one of them.

Done and over.

Still talking out of your ass, I see. The MEC voted down the first deal, after a whole hell of a lot of debate and stress, because they didn't believe that it was a fair deal, and because they believed that a better deal was achievable in arbitration. It's that simple. No convoluted plans, no sinister strategies, just reps doing what they thought was best for their members.

 

[HA25]

Your friend will first downgrade to FO and then be eligible for upgrade in 2015 if there is a vacancy. If that vacancy is created by an AT transition aircraft, then he/she is not eligible for that vacancy. It has to be through retirements or growth for us to reupgrade. It is possible you spoke to your friend prior to SWA announcing the removal of the 717 from their fleet, that changed alot of expectations on both sides.

curious, based on the contract pay that will go into effect shortly after the merger is complete, will he get a net pay increase? decrease? etc? What about retirement plan..

In a nutshell, will he be better off financially as a FO at southwest with the their contract, than AAI under their contract as a CA?

because really that is ultimately what's important, what's on your W2..

 

[waveflyer]

Still talking out of your ass, I see. The MEC voted down the first deal, after a whole hell of a lot of debate and stress, because they didn't believe that it was a fair deal, and because they believed that a better deal was achievable in arbitration. It's that simple. No convoluted plans, no sinister strategies, just reps doing what they thought was best for their members.

Unfortunately for that line, which you legally need to say so don't bother defending it- I have a LOT more experience with alpa than you do-
And every single move you made was predictable.
Any of us that have worked with alpa before understood that - and it went down exactly as we thought- they have zero motivation to facilitate things smoothly- none- why not extend even if GK wants a negotiated deal- why not delay delay- why not poison the well?

GK could have used the same exact leverage and stapled you.
Do you disagree?

What he used instead was a reasonably good estimation of what an arbitrator would come up with, using consultants with decades of experience in these things to come up with a fair list-
You think it's unfair-
I for damn sure think its unfair to Swapa pilots-
So we all have pointless stupid opinions. Yay for us.

So just answer one question:
If GK were so interested in screwing ATALPA why didn't he use the same leverage he used to get the 84% vote and use it to staple you.

I'm pretty sure 51% of you would vote for a staple vs being jobless- so why didn't he, if he's Lorenzo reborn?

Btw- take down your signature- you just look like a VERY YOUNG immature idiot to those of us who have been in the industry long enough to know the Lorenzo legacy, to even try and compare southwest to what that guy did.

Seriously, unless you want to keep showing your ass- take it down-

What's the point of it anyway?

 

[waveflyer]

curious, based on the contract pay that will go into effect shortly after the merger is complete, will he get a net pay increase? decrease? etc? What about retirement plan..

In a nutshell, will he be better off financially as a FO at southwest with the their contract, than AAI under their contract as a CA?

because really that is ultimately what's important, what's on your W2..

Not to some HA. Definitely not to some. They need the stripes and they're entitled to just about everything.
But to answer your question, before the merger was announced AT was in negotiations and voted 95% to strike-
Under that contract FOs at SWA made about the same as AT capts.
A month after the acquisition was announced they got a new contract- and did better though far shy of Swapa $.

They currently pretend that they would've got a much better contract if it weren't for SWA buying them-

The drawdown of AT I'm sure sucks however-

It's never fun to be at a shrinking base or airline- closing one out is tough and the schedules get weird and less lucrative for sure-

Our retirement is 2 fold- profit sharing which hasn't been significant for years- but still something-
And then a 9.3% 401k match- of which it is easily the best performing 401k I've ever seen -
But not a DCP-
Our retirement is the biggest thing we need to improve- most I talk to would rather see retirement improvements over payrate increases at this time

 

[SWA/FO]

Still talking out of your ass, I see. The MEC voted down the first deal, after a whole hell of a lot of debate and stress, because they didn't believe that it was a fair deal, and because they believed that a better deal was achievable in arbitration. It's that simple. No convoluted plans, no sinister strategies, just reps doing what they thought was best for their members.

Playing poker: AirTran Pilots thought 2's were wild. Then everybody threw their cards down. AirTran Pilots had a big smile on their faces..... That was until Gary (The guy that signs the checks) told them that 2's were not WILD... that they only had a pair of twos.... not the strong hand they thought they had.

 

[HA25]

Our retirement is the biggest thing we need to improve- most I talk to would rather see retirement improvements over payrate increases at this time

I agree, we're at 15% now and lagging a bit behind the new DAL/UAL/American contracts which I think hover around 16%...

but thanks for the info... I think the career earnings expectations will likely be what any arbitration is going to hinge on.