Southwest Line on Credit?

[waveflyer]

Hum, not at all your fault. Do you get that? I'm not putting an indictment on your pilot group for anything-
Just saying the SWA job was better and that's worth something in the SLI. Certainly a company's propensity to furlough is worthwhile to mention. Stability is an attribute of a quality job. No?

 

[jetflier]

Don't knock Real Estate . . . I probably made more in Real Estate last year than half of your pilots made flying airplanes. . . . Although much of that work was done by the charming and delightful Mrs. Webb.

Hell, I'd do it full time, if I didn't enjoy flying airplanes and telling lies on the radio so much. . . . . plus swilling beers with y'all on the layovers.

Hahahah now that's a good beoch slap

 

[humveedriver]

Hum, not at all your fault. Do you get that? I'm not putting an indictment on your pilot group for anything-
Just saying the SWA job was better and that's worth something in the SLI. Certainly a company's propensity to furlough is worthwhile to mention. Stability is an attribute of a quality job. No?

SWA is a larger, more established company than AT. There is no disputing that. What I think is lost on your side of the argument, is that every law passed concerning pilot SLI is inherently designed to protect the smaller groups interests. So it's easy for me to understand why you guys only want organic growth, because there are suppose to be laws that prevent larger organizations from abusing their competive advantage. Also, SWA is unique to every other airline from the no furlough and profit viewpoint. So using that metric, even Delta or United pilots would not be viewed as equals. The SLI debate was always about the retirement snapshot. SWAPA did what they did to keep the AT pilots from dominating the top of the list 20 years from now. That's really about it. Everything else is a distraction IMO.

 

[maxblast72]

No, wave, I just don't believe that any of that is going to lead to 15% ROIC.

You don't think 6 extra seats in all the -700s won't add up to a couple hundred million dollars in extra revenue per year? You don't think full codeshare capabilities (including the ability to take SWA customers to AirTran's international destinations) will add hundreds of millions of dollars of incremental revenue? You don't think replacing 117 seat aircraft with 175 seat aircraft that have very similar operating costs won't benefit the bottom line?

Last December, Gary Kelly laid out a roadmap to 15% ROIC for 2013 that depends on 4-5% RASM growth and $3.30 Jet A. So far this year, Jet A is a little cheaper than projected while revenue is coming in a little lighter than projected. As long as those two variables continue to move proportionally together, 15% (or very close to) is achievable for 2013.

You know what would? Ancillary fees. Gary is leaving tons of money on the table by not charging for bags. And it's costing shareholders a lot of money. I finally sold all of my shares a couple of weeks ago because I was tired of sitting around and waiting for someone to wake up and care about shareholder value.

SWA already charges for bags (overweight or third bag). Yes, SWA could generate revenue by charging for the first and second checked bag. However, SWA "steals" some customers from airlines that do charge for first and second checked bags. You of I will never have the data that Gary Kelly uses to determine whether he feels it would be good for SWA to charge for bags.

I finally sold all of my shares a couple of weeks ago because I was tired of sitting around and waiting for someone to wake up and care about shareholder value.

I have been purchasing $250/paycheck through the ESPP since February 2012. My only regret has been that I didn't go $500/paycheck. Haven't calculated my ROI yet, but it has to be over 30% when the ESPP discount is factored in.

 

[maxblast72]

In 2009 we made a record profit of $135 million dollars.

Unfortunately we lost $273 million in 2008 due to $4/gallon Jet A. If Jet A prices wouldn't have crashed in late 2008, our furloughed pilots would have spent a lot longer than 6 months out of the cockpit.

 

[Crash Pad]

Still going around on this when it is so obvious.... AirTran was the greatest airline in the history of aviation. We had XM radio! Boom, that just happened.

We charged for bags, yeah I said it.

We had business class. That's right the same class RJs have.

Now lets talk service... Harmonica on the PA, we got it. Gate agents that reinvented customer service, only at Airtran. FAs that treat you like gold, sorry Delta.

Now lets talk about our pilots. Each one was hand selected from the finest regionals, military, and defunct airlines on earth. All of us had multiple offers from DAL, UAL, FedEx, and NASA but AirTran was the obvious choice.

Once selected we went through the hardest interview on earth. It consisted of 3 to 5 HR questions that would make your brain explode. Then they try and break you with a training regimen that would make a navy seal puke.

SWA, DAL, and USAir drew straws in a secret meeting to see who would be allowed to buy Airtran. On our own it was clear we would become the next Emirates. SWA one the straw pull. The lucky straw has been plated in gold and sits on GKs mantle because it saved his career and SWA.

You're welcome SWA. You will feel two things the first time you are allowed to sit left seat with an AirTran pilot.
1. You will feel overwhelmed by his ability to make 737 do things you had only imagined.
2. You will feel a calm overcome you and a peace you had only read about in church. That is the awesome. It radiates from all of us.

I don't know why we have to keep explaining this.

 

[Ty Webb]

Unfortunately we lost $273 million in 2008 due to $4/gallon Jet A. If Jet A prices wouldn't have crashed in late 2008, our furloughed pilots would have spent a lot longer than 6 months out of the cockpit.

You can look at the history of either airline, and pull out the data you want in order to "prove" any dubious point you want to make. . . . and none of these "points" will change anyone's opinion. Neither side feels like they got a fair deal.

 

[scoreboardII]

Still going around on this when it is so obvious.... AirTran was the greatest airline in the history of aviation. We had XM radio! Boom, that just happened.

We charged for bags, yeah I said it.

We had business class. That's right the same class RJs have.

Now lets talk service... Harmonica on the PA, we got it. Gate agents that reinvented customer service, only at Airtran. FAs that treat you like gold, sorry Delta.

Now lets talk about our pilots. Each one was hand selected from the finest regionals, military, and defunct airlines on earth. All of us had multiple offers from DAL, UAL, FedEx, and NASA but AirTran was the obvious choice.

Once selected we went through the hardest interview on earth. It consisted of 3 to 5 HR questions that would make your brain explode. Then they try and break you with a training regimen that would make a navy seal puke.

SWA, DAL, and USAir drew straws in a secret meeting to see who would be allowed to buy Airtran. On our own it was clear we would become the next Emirates. SWA one the straw pull. The lucky straw has been plated in gold and sits on GKs mantle because it saved his career and SWA.

You're welcome SWA. You will feel two things the first time you are allowed to sit left seat with an AirTran pilot.
1. You will feel overwhelmed by his ability to make 737 do things you had only imagined.
2. You will feel a calm overcome you and a peace you had only read about in church. That is the awesome. It radiates from all of us.

I don't know why we have to keep explaining this.

youll fit right in, well done.

 

[waveflyer]

Nice

 

[redflyer65]

I have been purchasing $250/paycheck through the ESPP since February 2012. My only regret has been that I didn't go $500/paycheck. Haven't calculated my ROI yet, but it has to be over 30% when the ESPP discount is factored in.

Your absolutely right Max. I've been doing $400/month for years. And now it's really starting to pay off.

I'd say 15% is looking good for the year. You add in the early boarding feature and it's over the top. The early boarding fee could possibly bring in an additional 300-500 million a year. As long as oil stays low (and it's been dropping everyday the past week) the quarterly/yearly profits look really good.

PCL would have been wise to do the same thing.

 

[Phlintstone]

You're welcome SWA. You will feel two things the first time you are allowed to sit left seat with an AirTran pilot.
1. You will feel overwhelmed by his ability to make 737 do things you had only imagined. Otherwise known as ACARs weight & balance and the FO starting an engine while the CA taxis. It is a ballet on the flight deck.
2. You will feel a calm overcome you and a peace you had only read about in church. That is the awesome. It radiates from all of us. Not from us, the calm is from actually using automation!

I don't know why we have to keep explaining this.

Phred

 

[vixin]

Unfortunately we lost $273 million in 2008 due to $4/gallon Jet A. If Jet A prices wouldn't have crashed in late 2008, our furloughed pilots would have spent a lot longer than 6 months out of the cockpit.

And where would AAI be with gas prices now and the last couple of years? Plus raises?

 

[RLAblows]

And where would AAI be with gas prices now and the last couple of years? Plus raises?

The same question could be asked about SWA. All I hear is "labor costs" being spoken about from management. Picketing has now started with labor groups. Zero growth and no international ops. Things weren't all roses. The AirTran acquisition was a necessity, not a charity.

 

[maxblast72]

You can look at the history of either airline, and pull out the data you want in order to "prove" any dubious point you want to make. . . . and none of these "points" will change anyone's opinion. Neither side feels like they got a fair deal.

That is true. The facts are AirTran's last annual loss was in 2008 while Southwest's last annual loss was in 1972. It is also a fact that AirTran's last furlough was in the fall of 2008 while Southwest has never furloughed a pilot.

Those facts would have been presented to the arbitration panel had the Southwest or AirTran pilots not approved a negotiated deal. From my conversations with former Merger Committee members of other airlines, it is apparent most pilots groups overestimate their arbitration case and were shocked by the arbitrator's award when it came out. I believe a good portion of both the AirTran and Southwest pilot groups overestimated their arbitration case in our situation.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Using your logic Max, had WN merged with US, AA, UCAL, etc. those pilot groups could have expected the same fate from an arbitrator that you believe we would have.

While you are making your new mgmt. and future union brothers proud, your attempts to justify your failure are sickening.

 

[canyonblue]

Otherwise known as ACARs weight & balance and the FO starting an engine while the CA taxis. It is a ballet on the flight deck.

Not from us, the calm is from actually using automation!

Phred

ACARS weight & balance The OPC is sooo labor intensive.

Actually the calm is knowing that the person you are flying with can function without the automation.

 

[SWA/FO]

Hahahah now that's a good beoch slap

Ty.... Not everybody is good at/in Real Estate. I just wish he would go do something else.
__________________

 

[ATLplt]

ACARS weight & balance The OPC is sooo labor intensive.

Actually the calm is knowing that the person you are flying with can function without the automation.

You can roll your eyes, but once you use it you'll see what we're talking about. Ask your ops agents how nice it is working AT flights. They don't have to do anything. Everything is automated and easier on all parties involved. If ACARS isn't working then you're free to use the Tandy 1000 in your cockpit.

 

[vixin]

Had an OPC MEL'd last week. Got numbers on ACARS. For the first time since I have been at SWA, I had to say we are not ready we waiting on our numbers. We both said yep we have made it to AMR finally. Several minutes later we got the info. It is a nice format and not new here it just isnt used that much. The lack of urgency from dispatch was the frustrating part.

 

[humveedriver]

I feel it's important to reiterate that the system AT uses which SWA is interested in, does not depend on manual inputs from dispatch to achieve performance numbers. It is automated and very efficient. Will cost the Ops agents their jobs in all likelihood. One other benefit to the Aerodata method is that you also get two snapshots (planned weight and planned weight plus 4,000 lbs) in your dispatch paperwork. So if you want to enter the numbers manually and go you can. It just might not be the most fuel efficient power setting. But you don't have to take a delay that way. Should there be a a big atmospheric difference you would have to break down and use dispatch. It works well.

 

[scoreboardII]

The formatting for this auto acars data is already in the 800 and will soon be fleet wide, it is automated, no Manuel inputs required to recieve numbers.

 

[HowardBorden]

The formatting for this auto acars data is already in the 800 and will soon be fleet wide, it is automated, no Manuel inputs required to recieve numbers.

So it's magic? No one is entering the fuel load? The cargo loaded to each bin? The number of passengers? Is this thing related to HAL from 2001? Should I be scared? Do I eat the red pill or the green pill?

 

[scoreboardII]

Yes, PFM.

 

[HA25]

Get over it. "Timing" = is everything. Luck helps too.

On it's face, this statement says it all about this dicked up industry we all work in where your skill, experience, and hard work mean nothing, and who you know, and which management team you decided to attach your entire career to determines if you "win"..

sigh

Why didn't they just start out with a national seniority system back in the 30's..???

 

[scoreboardII]

Because the big guys thought their pilots were better than all those other pilots and that's how we got to where we are today, independent contractors.

 

[fletch717]

So it's magic? No one is entering the fuel load? The cargo loaded to each bin? The number of passengers? Is this thing related to HAL from 2001? Should I be scared? Do I eat the red pill or the green pill?

The pilot types rwy(up to three)fuel, number of paxs in three zone, bag weight in two zones and hits send. The other end is a mainframe with a progam that knows the airplane (we have two types) numbers come back within 15 seconds. If Mel or cdl with a weight penalty is on paperwork it is automatically in your returned numbers. I case of a rwy change you hit "reject" insert the new rwy and "send" numbers are back in seconds. Its like trusting your auto throttles howard,The only human in the system is the pilot. Airtran was the first to get the system, Alaska and jetblue are getting it next and delta is looking at it.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Because the big guys thought their pilots were better than all those other pilots and that's how we got to where we are today.

How ironic coming from a WN pilot after the last two and a half years.

 

[waveflyer]

How ironic coming from a WN pilot after the last two and a half years.

How long are you going to keep up these little snipes?

honestly, hiw long are you going to run with the ilkusion that you got screwed and swa pilots are so awful?
Nobody said we were better, we said the job was better and more difficult to get. We were also the buying carrier. All of which are seniority issues. What's more arrogant is AT pilots getting their company bought and fully expecting to screw with the process and have the final outcome be Relative seniority, or what was it that PCL said: ' worst case scenario for AT pilots should be date of hire(!)' really?

Your problem is buying into alpa's divisive expectations about what you "deserved"

No idea what you line guys actually wanted in that deal,
seriously, none...

but it's long past and tired of the digs as if your lives are truly awful right now. Get over it. You're SWA pilots now with thousands of pilots who'd love to be where you are- who turned down air tran to keep building their quals and wait for the job they really wanted. Enjoy your good luck. Thank you for your flight ops contributions- I appreciate you, but will never agree that a) you got screwed or b) SWA pilots are arrogant for not giving away what we all sacrificed for when we bought you. IMO, it should've been more slanted towards SWA. 110%. Ridiculous how good a deal you guys actually got. And everyone I fly with feels that way. Most don't talk about it. Most absolutely want to move on, and heal this rift. But no swapa pilots feel they got a fair deal in this.

Just be glad you aren't the next airline we decide to buy.

 

[scoreboardII]

I was just going to tell him to F off. But I like what you said better.

 

[HowardBorden]

The pilot types rwy(up to three)fuel, number of paxs in three zone, bag weight in two zones and hits send. The other end is a mainframe with a progam that knows the airplane (we have two types) numbers come back within 15 seconds. If Mel or cdl with a weight penalty is on paperwork it is automatically in your returned numbers. I case of a rwy change you hit "reject" insert the new rwy and "send" numbers are back in seconds. Its like trusting your auto throttles howard,The only human in the system is the pilot. Airtran was the first to get the system, Alaska and jetblue are getting it next and delta is looking at it.

Sounds like a great program. I was just curious "who" was inputting the data. So I assume the rampers just delivery the cargo load sheet and then the rest is up to the pilots.