Southwest Line on Credit?

[HowardBorden]

The Southwest that you describe is yesterday's news. No business leaders are trying to mimic SWA today. SWA is the poster child for failing to deliver shareholder value.

In 2007, Seeking Alpha was the recipient of Forbes Best of the Web Award and was selected by Kiplinger's as its pick for Best Investment Informant. In 2011 Seeking Alpha was listed as #1 in Inc. Magazine's list of Essential Economic blogs. This is what they have to say about LUV stock in December 0f 2012:

"Southwest Airlines (LUV) is the largest and most well-managed airline in the United States. The company has 40 years of history and is known for its low-fare, high-quality air service. The company is repeatedly cited in case histories in business school for being an exceptionally well-run company. The stock price has shown great strength over the previous quarter. The company is likely to grow earnings, and analysts remain upbeat on forward growth."

Maybe they are right, maybe they are wrong, who knows but I definitely feel better about believing their assessment about the relative merits of LUV stock than yours.

Southwest Airlines Is The Best Transportation Play
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1065941-southwest-airlines-is-the-best-transportation-play

 

[ATLplt]

B) trying to convince 6 anonymous AT hard liners.

You think those guys are hard liners? What does that make you, the voice of reason? Hate to tell you, Wave, but many of the 1200 or so guys coming over next year share similar views as the "hard liners". Ask someone who lost the seat, base, and aircraft they bid and were awarded about how great Southwest is.

Just know C) if you're from another carrier and GK loses his mind again and decides to spend the profit of our collective efforts buying you, don't expect as good a deal as AT got.

If another airline gets caught up in this mess I'd be willing to bet they take it all the way to arbitration. Who the hell would be stupid enough to accept a deal after watching what happened to us? Nobody.

 

[Phlintstone]

Everybody knows the following:
1) A great guy and a great pilot that interviewed and got hired at SWA.

2) A person who is personality challenged and aeronautically disfunctional who interview with SWA and got hired

3) A great guy and a great pilot who had all the tickets with all the type ratings who interviewed and did not get hired.

Since you work at SWA you are #1 or #2. You be the judge.

Guess what? You are just like every other airline. Every HR department has their nuances and quirks. Just because they told you that they hired "only the best" when you showed up to day 1 of initial training does not make it so. If you believed that line then you are probably leaning towards the #2 example above.

If you can look at yourself in the mirror and laugh at yourself then you have enough modesty to realize that SWA is not infallible. SWA needs to look at the procedures and practices and evolve into an airline that will continue to grow in technology and the aircraft they fly and the way that they operate.

If you continue to believe that you are the "best of the best" you will continue down the primrose path to your own destruction. Your choice.

So true! I know pilots at every major US airline and freight companies. As a general rule, all are the same and none are better than any other. When anyone gets to our level, there are very little differences whether you come from the military, civilian or the 5 O'clock Charlie school of flying.

IMO, one of the reasons SWA guys get bashed since many of them believe the Kool-Aid speech about them being the best and are stupid enough to voice it.

Phred

 

[freightdogfred]

In 2007, Seeking Alpha was the recipient of Forbes Best of the Web Award and was selected by Kiplinger's as its pick for Best Investment Informant. In 2011 Seeking Alpha was listed as #1 in Inc. Magazine's list of Essential Economic blogs. This is what they have to say about LUV stock in December 0f 2012:

"Southwest Airlines (LUV) is the largest and most well-managed airline in the United States. The company has 40 years of history and is known for its low-fare, high-quality air service. The company is repeatedly cited in case histories in business school for being an exceptionally well-run company. The stock price has shown great strength over the previous quarter. The company is likely to grow earnings, and analysts remain upbeat on forward growth."

Maybe they are right, maybe they are wrong, who knows but I definitely feel better about believing their assessment about the relative merits of LUV stock than yours.

Southwest Airlines Is The Best Transportation Play
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1065941-southwest-airlines-is-the-best-transportation-play

Maybe you should call Warren Buffett, he seems to disagree

http://www.warrenbuffett.com/does-warren-buffett-think-youll-make-money-with-airline-stocks/

 

[scoreboardII]

The Southwest that you describe is yesterday's news. No business leaders are trying to mimic SWA today. SWA is the poster child for failing to deliver shareholder value.


."

Really?

Motley fool:


The airline industry has a singular talent for draining the pockets of well-intentioned investors. Highly leveraged balance sheets and bankruptcies are the norm. Significant labor costs and unpredictable jet fuel prices wreak havoc on variable costs. Yet some airlines generate solid returns quarter after quarter. Alaska Air Group (NYSE: ALK ) , Ryanair (NASDAQ: RYAAY ) , Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV ) , and Copa Holdings (NYSE: CPA )

Very little has been in the news lately about the best-performing airline in recent history, Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV). With the company set to report its first quarter results on April 25, I thought a little reminder about this great company was in order.

<H2>Key Statistics

Forward P/E (1 yr):10.71P/S (ttm):0.56Ex-Dividend Date:05-Mar-13
? More Key Statistics

Analysts


Annual EPS Est (Dec-13) :0.98Quarterly EPS Est (Mar-13) :0.03Mean Recommendation*:2.6PEG Ratio (5 yr expected):0.45
* (Strong Buy) 1.0 - 5.0 (Sell)

</H2>






Yep, SWA sucks. Not.

 

[HowardBorden]

"Maybe you should call Warren Buffett, he seems to disagree."

Warren is a very smart guy and he says this: ?the worst sort of business is one that grows rapidly, requires significant capital to engender the growth, and then earns little or no money.? In short he doesn't think ANY airline is a good financial bet to invest in. He does of course own NetJets though and one could argue that it is not an airline per se.

My point was smart and savvy investment gurus say that LUV stock is a good bet if you want to own airline stock. I put a lot more confidence in their opinions than those of PCL_128 who claims it's a turd. Of course he has no conflict of interest when offering that opinion.

 

[SWA/FO]

Shareholders would be smarter to put their money in a CD rather than giving it to Gary to sit on for the next decade.

Insert any airline in the above statement. I remember AT stock going from $20 a share to $4....... All airline stock sucks.

Southwest was never for sale..... Air Tran was FOR SALE. Air Tran was bought. Two different CEOs from Air Tran tried to convince 3 Different SWA CEO's to buy them. Sure Tranny offered a superior product for the small fleet it had. But they "couldn't do anymore, went as far as they could" to quote a former CEO.

As in: We can't give our Pilots, Flight Attendants the raises they are after. As in: the backup plan to shut down the airline in the event of a strike and return planes to their lessors.

How is the job search going PCL? I mean you have a master plan not to come over right? Will you still comeback to this website and bebate us all for years to come, while you work at your new career? :cartman:

 

[freightdogfred]

"Maybe you should call Warren Buffett, he seems to disagree."

Warren is a very smart guy and he says this: ?the worst sort of business is one that grows rapidly, requires significant capital to engender the growth, and then earns little or no money.? In short he doesn't think ANY airline is a good financial bet to invest in. He does of course own NetJets though and one could argue that it is not an airline per se.

My point was smart and savvy investment gurus say that LUV stock is a good bet if you want to own airline stock. I put a lot more confidence in their opinions than those of PCL_128 who claims it's a turd. Of course he has no conflict of interest when offering that opinion.

I agree. I'm an employee i guess, acquired not hired, all that BS and I always pull 100% for my new masters, like a good sled dog should. I buy about 200$ worth of LUV stock every paycheck, I'm betting long term and am actually going to increase my monthly withholding to purchase stock. I'm also going to support mgmt 100% to keep costs down, to include plans to play hardball with those whiny SWAPA pilots.
i really don't need the money, i'm just here to meet chicks.

 

[MCDU]

Easy tough guy. I'm not an Air Tran guy. But I do understand your anger. You paid for your job. Air Tran guys didn't!
And your wrong, I do think you're a ********************ing *************************! You're just another chicken ******************** coward hiding behind a keyboard!

Airtran, Valujet was the poster child for PFT. Pay to fly an old DC9. Not until this dirtbag company started crashing planes and could not find pilots were they forced to buy a tiny airline and changed their name. This company was built on blood and pilots that crossed and pilots that paid. Not a proud legacy.

M

 

[kwick]

For a new hire or junior pilot, the career expectations at SW are probably less than most other major airlines. 20 years to upgrade isn't much of a career to look forward to.

In another merger, expect the other shoe to fall, you will be giving up years of
seniority because of the career stagnation. Or you will be stapled to the bottom,
of another list.


The arbitrator won't have to look very hard either, and your buddy GK will be on the beach with Horton and Lorenzo. Good Luck!

What goes around, comes around! and I'm sure you'll get a lot of sympathy.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Maybe you should call Warren Buffett, he seems to disagree

http://www.warrenbuffett.com/does-warren-buffett-think-youll-make-money-with-airline-stocks/

He was talking about airline stocks in general, NOT Southwest Airlines in particular, which was the latest point in this thread. Nice misdirect though, Fred. How about if it is phrased this way: "According to Warren Buffet, airline stocks in general suck. According to Kiplinger's Best Investment Informant, Southwest Airlines' stock sucks the least [that is, is the best of the heap]."

Does that make you feel better?

By the way, this kind of misdirection is the reason Wave talks about "6 anonymous hardliners." You and Dicko and Fletch (and a few others) continually skew every single bit of industry information, good or bad, into "Southwest sucks, and AirTran is the best ever." Everything Southwest did or does is stupid and manifested incompetence, while everything AirTran did or does is perfection. From your stated perception, it's a wonder that Southwest didn't perish in its first decade, instead of becoming the most successful, most profitable airline in history. It's a wonder that AirTran isn't ruling the world with its paragon of air service, instead of being rife with employee discontent, and being shopped out by its CEO (and make no mistake, guys, you WERE shopped out...).

We get it. You're unhappy with the situation. I'm sorry you're upset that your AT Captain seat wasn't immediately replaced with a SW Captain seat. I'm sorry you're upset that you don't get our pay until you fly under our colors. I'm sorry you're upset that you didn't come over here with relative seniority or even straight DOH, when the list makers compared the career expectations of the two airlines. In fact, like a lot of guys, I'm sorry our company ever bought yours in the first place.

However, that wasn't up to me, anymore than it was up to you. Your CEO put you on the block, and our CEO wrote the check. Neither of us can change that now (or the SLI that resulted). From where I sit, your choices going forward basically boil down to: 1) accept what happened, do your best to improve our collective lot, and someday reap the rewards; or 2) continue whining anonymously, like that will change anything, and keep saying that AirTran was the best airline ever, while Southwest sucks. Do you think that anyone really believes that anyway?

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

I agree. I'm an employee i guess, acquired not hired, all that BS and I always pull 100% for my new masters, like a good sled dog should. I buy about 200$ worth of LUV stock every paycheck, I'm betting long term and am actually going to increase my monthly withholding to purchase stock. I'm also going to support mgmt 100% to keep costs down, to include plans to play hardball with those whiny SWAPA pilots.
i really don't need the money, i'm just here to meet chicks.

I guess I was wrong; there is a third choice that you've seemingly elected. You can pretend that you're moving on and trying, while at the same time continuing to whine anonymously by using sarcasm. Sort of combining the first two choices. Good one, Fred!

Bubba

P.S. By the way, I gotta' say that the tagline under your profile's screen name is certainly descriptive!

 

[freightdogfred]

He was talking about airline stocks in general, NOT Southwest Airlines in particular, which was the latest point in this thread. Nice misdirect though, Fred. How about if it is phrased this way: "According to Warren Buffet, airline stocks in general suck. According to Kiplinger's Best Investment Informant, Southwest Airlines' stock sucks the least [that is, is the best of the heap]."

Does that make you feel better?

By the way, this kind of misdirection is the reason Wave talks about "6 anonymous hardliners." You and Dicko and Fletch (and a few others) continually skew every single bit of industry information, good or bad, into "Southwest sucks, and AirTran is the best ever." Everything Southwest did or does is stupid and manifested incompetence, while everything AirTran did or does is perfection. From your stated perception, it's a wonder that Southwest didn't perish in its first decade, instead of becoming the most successful, most profitable airline in history. It's a wonder that AirTran isn't ruling the world with its paragon of air service, instead of being rife with employee discontent, and being shopped out by its CEO (and make no mistake, guys, you WERE shopped out...).

We get it. You're unhappy with the situation. I'm sorry you're upset that your AT Captain seat wasn't immediately replaced with a SW Captain seat. I'm sorry you're upset that you don't get our pay until you fly under our colors. I'm sorry you're upset that you didn't come over here with relative seniority or even straight DOH, when the list makers compared the career expectations of the two airlines. In fact, like a lot of guys, I'm sorry our company ever bought yours in the first place.

However, that wasn't up to me, anymore than it was up to you. Your CEO put you on the block, and our CEO wrote the check. Neither of us can change that now (or the SLI that resulted). From where I sit, your choices going forward basically boil down to: 1) accept what happened, do your best to improve our collective lot, and someday reap the rewards; or 2) continue whining anonymously, like that will change anything, and keep saying that AirTran was the best airline ever, while Southwest sucks. Do you think that anyone really believes that anyway?

Bubba

On the contrary. I have never said SW sucks. What I have said is that both SWAPA and SWA have not lived up to the spirit, if not the letter of the process agreement to the detriment of the groups going forward.
Numerous outside observers, completely unbiased, have agreed. If anyone comes on here and disagrees with you, waveflyer, redclown or any other SWAPA poster they get labeled as a SWA hater.

Airtran was a very nimble company, and could make changes in OPS in a matter of weeks. Southwest is like a supertanker, somebody yells down a pipe to the engine room and miles later the ship begins a slow turn. So be it. If I thought SW's demise was imminent, why would I be buying 500$/month worth of stock? Can you not read? but nice misdirection, as you put it.

I don't hate SW. I'm a stockholder. I hate the way SWAPA, and a few of the arrogant jackwagons that post on this board bash my former company, a company for all it's faults, I took great pride in working for and pulling 100% all the time for.

 

[texman]

For a new hire or junior pilot, the career expectations at SW are probably less than most other major airlines. 20 years to upgrade isn't much of a career to look forward to.

In another merger, expect the other shoe to fall, you will be giving up years of
seniority because of the career stagnation. Or you will be stapled to the bottom,
of another list.


The arbitrator won't have to look very hard either, and your buddy GK will be on the beach with Horton and Lorenzo. Good Luck!

What goes around, comes around! and I'm sure you'll get a lot of sympathy.

49% thats all i have to say

 

[freightdogfred]

P.S. By the way, I gotta' say that the tagline under your profile's screen name is certainly descriptive!

That tagline's been there long before this whole mess, but that's another story