Sorry...I've had it!

[NTS ALL 4]

What does your NWA GOM/FOM say:

I was wandering what NWA GOM/FOM says about jumpseating. Or NWA's ALPA policy on jumpseating. I would bet it says something like "A jumpseat can be denied for weight and balance issues, safety of flight and carriers not on the approved jumpseat list". If your appoved then there should be no issues.

Hope things work out for this fellow at NW. Hope this fellow never has to look for work at B6, like a lot of other furloughed folks (NW, UAL, DAL, AAA, ATA, AA) who now have a job at B6.

Cheers!

 

[Vingus]

The jumpseat belongs to the Captain and he can do with it what he pleases. If he wants to be a tool and deny jumpseats to guys, then that's his choice. Make a formal complaint to your JS Coordinator and then pass the guy's name around.

Jeese, is it just me or does this sound completely spineless?

The jumpseat may belong to the captain, but doesn't the captain belong to the company?

Maybe my military background is coming out again, but I'd have this guy standing tall before the man.

But then this captain would probably run to ALPA and cry about his mistreatment by the chief pilot and the infringement upon his "rights".

This behavior is either right or wrong. If it is right, then so be it. If it is wrong, correct it.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

IB6,

Please pass the name of the NWA Captain to someone you know at SWA. I know I don't want to fly with this Jackass.

 

[crudzilla]

Pony Up!

The Captain has his reasons--let him answer--post it!

 

[AA717driver]

320--I appreciate your concern on this issue. TWA pilots "ate $h!t for a decade and they never--NOT ONCE, used the jumpseat as a tool to vent their frustration.

If they had, if the jumpseat committee couldn't stop this behavior, the management pilots would have. (I have virtually no respect for the TWA management pilots who worked under Icahn. The one shred of decency they retained was respect for the jumpseat.)

There is NO EXCUSE for this action. The inability of your jumpseat to curb this behavior is merely the first speedbump on the road to stopping these scumbags from violating the last bastion of respect for fellow airline pilots that remains from ALPA's abdication of it's duty to represent its members.

If you don't take charge and change the behavior from within, then the behavior will be changed by others--to the detriment of the 99% of NWA pilots who aren't responsible for this stuff.TC

 

[AlbieF15]

Vingus,

You work at a place where pilots and management seem to work pretty well together and the "reasonable man" approach works out.

Believe it or not, not all flight managers are quite so approachable, even keeled, and/or pilot friendly at other places. I hope you never have to deal with such types, but doing the coaching I do I've heard a lot of stories. Our company has some great ACPs, and some who have been not as good. In any case--it IS nice to have someone in your camp when you have an issue.
That 1.95% will seem pretty cheap if/when that occurs.

Glad your system is working (no tongue in cheek or sarcasm implied). However--your CP is NOT your squadron commander, and MGT is NOT wing leadership. In the military, you are being groomed to one day do THEIR job. In the airline world--you are an expendable resource--labor. You are needed to make the widget. Do not expect the same fair treatment (at some carriers) that you might expect from your military bosses. You are comparing apples to oranges...

On the jumpseat issue--I agree anyone bumping a LCC guy is a tool. However, there is a long history at some companies of turf wars over the JS (mine included). I would prefer to let the pilots throw the blanket party and keep management out of the fight on this one.

 

[Palomino]

i'd rather have both sides of the story before i drag someone's name through the mud.

take a deep breath and let it go. it's done. you've followed protocol and it needs to be left at that.

i've never denied a jumpseat that i can think of. but, there have been a few times i wish i'd left the disgruntled behind.

it is a privilege, it is not a right. commuting falls into the same category.

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

Guys, I've never denied a jumpseat and problably never will, but, the more e-mails we get from our J/S co-ordinator about NW, the worse it gets. At some point it's going to be taken out of our hands and management will step in and say enough is enough. Whether it's our mgmt. or NW, those agreements will go away and nobody wins. I don't j/s on NW but have given plenty of their guys rides. Really nice people just trying to survive a bad situation. NW guys, please identify these clowns to your own pilot group and police these idiots before this turn really stupid. Thanks!

 

[Ty Webb]

If you don't take charge and change the behavior from within, then the behavior will be changed by others--to the detriment of the 99% of NWA pilots who aren't responsible for this stuff.TC

This almost happened a year or two ago at my carrier. We had something like 6 denials reported in one year, and four of them were on NWA. The previous CP was rumored to have said that he was ready to terminate the agreement if it happened one more time that year.

I still carry around the name and employee number of a NWA DC9 CA that not only turned down one of my co-workers, but made a huge scene in front of passengers, calling the AirTran Captain a scab and other unbelievable, unprofessional things (he was not a scab, BTW).

This NWA guys was a real horse's ass. I feel sorry for the rest of the NWA guys that have to hear about a small percentage of their group.

 

[Chuck Yogourt]

[I still carry around the name and employee number of a NWA DC9 CA that not only turned down one of my co-workers, but made a huge scene in front of passengers, calling the AirTran Captain a scab and other unbelievable, unprofessional things (he was not a scab, BTW).]

Now why would anyone think an AirTran Captain was a scab. The Nerve. Lord help us all. I am shocked beyond belief.

 

[goastar]

The real issues

I am sorry that you were bumped, but I have read the comments on this thread and they are perplexing at best.

Some are brow beating a crew member who has the right to deny a jumpseat. It is his right. We are commuters, that is our right and a privilege. You don't like it, move to your base. This is a chance we take for living where and how we want to live.

It is sad that this captain is holding the likes of JB responsible for a declining industry, but, it is his right. The real man you NWA guys and gals, and the rest of us, should be hounding is that jackal that is employed by you and running alpa. Duane Woreth gets a guaranteed (changed to guaranteed in
the last few years versus a percentage of highest member pay) package of $500,000 a year while the rest of you get ready to take huge paycuts. He is ineffective! ALPA should be preparing for an SOS and he is trying to deliver a petition to a white house that would not even take a union survey during an election year.

Like it or not this is where the blame should be laid, not on a captains right. If it weren’t for the short comings of ALPA and the lack of balls to protect your pensions, jobs etc.... perhaps this captain wouldn’t be such an a$$.

Good luck to you all.

 

[castle bravo]

NWA flight #527, LGA-DTW, 12-09-05, a 757.


If you frequently commute to/from LGA-DTW, use Spirit. You will be treated well, and they offer unresrticted jumpseats.

 

[Ty Webb]

Now why would anyone think an AirTran Captain was a scab. The Nerve. Lord help us all. I am shocked beyond belief.

That would make as much sense as re-interviewing every Midex pilot, just to make sure we get rid of you, Chuckie Boy. . . . . . Congratulations. all your co-workers will have you to thank.

.

 

[320AV8R]

320--I appreciate your concern on this issue. TWA pilots "ate $h!t for a decade and they never--NOT ONCE, used the jumpseat as a tool to vent their frustration.

I was just speculating that the conditions here might have led to his decision. It still doesn't justify it, IMO.

There is NO EXCUSE for this action. The inability of your jumpseat to curb this behavior is merely the first speedbump on the road to stopping these scumbags from violating the last bastion of respect for fellow airline pilots that remains from ALPA's abdication of it's duty to represent its members.

I can't see any reason, either. However, as long as the "Captain's discression" language is in the FOM....they can act as they see fit. The JS coordinator can talk with them, but has no authority to insist on compliance. It's like trying to get a bunch of kids to "play nice" in the sandbox. You can tell them 100 times, but in the end, they're going to do what they want.

If you don't take charge and change the behavior from within, then the behavior will be changed by others--to the detriment of the 99% of NWA pilots who aren't responsible for this stuff.TC

I agree. What goes around comes around. I got denied just because I work for NWA. I let it slide, because it's not worth it. When pilots from that airline show up to ride on us in the future, I'll treat them with respect & be hospitable. It's unreasonable to redirect your anger at their whole pilot group, from the results of one individual.

320AV8R

 

[IB6 UB9]

Lots of good stuff on here. I couldn't reply to any of these yesterday because I was commuting (or trying to). From some of the PM's I got, and from reading this thread we can certainly expect more of this sh!t. Somewhere back someone questioned whether the other jumpseater had priority. Please correct me if I am wrong...but I thought the current policy was no matter what equipment, NWA will carry two offline jumpseaters. I believe the other jumpseater was a NW pilot. I also am in agreement to the fact that yes, it is certainly the Captain's discretion. Are we in agreement that he needs a good reason. Here is his reason: I was commuting with my fiance (whose parents are both NWA employees) who continued on to DTW after I was...removed from the aircraft. She's a nice girl...but packs quite a wallop when wronged. During the deplaning process in DTW, she asked the flight crew for a word on the jetway and they refused. They were using the second door to deplane (757), so she marches up through first class to confront the crew. She stated that basically all the harm you are doing is keeping people from getting home to their families, and in fact, my family happens to work here. The Captain was as aggressive and abrasive with her as he was with me, stating "Your dad should know better then" (whatever that is supposed to mean) and, the kicker "JetBlue is bringing down the industry". Then the bobblehead doll FO, her head bobbing the whole time, she decides to chime in with "Yeah, JetBlue is..." My fiance didn't let her finish, and the rest of the conversation ended quickly after she interrupted them to tell them they are ignorant.
So, I'll let you deduce on your own why we are being denied the jumpseat.