Sorry...I've had it!

[dbrownie]

Somewhere back someone questioned whether the other jumpseater had priority. Please correct me if I am wrong...but I thought the current policy was no matter what equipment, NWA will carry two offline jumpseaters. I believe the other jumpseater was a NW pilot. .

IB6 UB9;

We are only allowed to carry offline jumpseaters on a per jumpseat basis.
A320 2 jumpseats=2 offline pilots, B757 1 jumpseat=1 offline jumpseater etc..

That being said; often a NWA guy will take a FA jumpseat (if open) or use a pass to get a offline guy on. I did that on my last commute so we could get a
Independance Air gal on out of BDL.

Some guys don't give a shi# and put on as many jumpseaters as there are open seats! But we are not supposed to do that.

I like to have as many extra "crew members" as possible on board! Which all jumpseaters are considered at NWA.

Again sorry for your experience on NWA, we have some real idiots here, you wonder how they have gotten this far in life treating people like that?

Dave B

 

[IB6 UB9]

Trust me, the vast majority are furious over this kind of BS from our fellow pilots. NWA is a "commuter" airline with most of our employees living out of bases, and we well know the recipricocity needed for all of us to get to work.

In all fairness to this Captain though, what was the nature of the interaction between the JS and the PIC? Was it "you are not riding becuase you are JB" or was the JS presumtious or rude "I have your JS"?

Not right, but there are a lot of people on edge right now, looking for someone to vent on.

I apologize on behalf of the few idiots in our ranks, and hope this is the rare exception.

Personally I try and be real nice to you guys - I might need a reccomendation real soon

I have been a commuter for years. I ride on a few different carriers and I ALWAYS approach the flight deck with the exact same professionalism...and due to recent events, especially when I ride on NWA. This particular time was no different. The crew was in the middle of a checklist, I waited until they were finished, then offered my hand to the Captain, introduced myself, and ASKED for the jumpseat. (I was in uniform). He told me he could not accomodate me, I very politely asked "can you tell me why that is", and he became abrasive and indignant with me. You can read about the rest of it near the start of this thread.

 

[zonker]

Alot of folks think Jetblue helped lower the "standard" and have changed the way pilots are compensated. The -190 rates are setting the standard for 100 seat jet rates, and they are an embarrassment. Also, the move toward changing the 8 hour workday is also a factor.

Jetblue has thumbed their nose on unions and some of the legacy carriers don't like it.

Whether you like it or not, these attitudes exist. I know I felt uneasy trying to jumpseat when I worked at Jetblue. I don't see this changing anytime soon. I am not saying it is right using the jumpseat as a political tool, but it is one area a captain can voice his disapproval.

Why not try jumpseating on another carrier?

Still pretending you used to work at Jetblue, huh?

Let me know how that works out for you.

 

[NTS ALL 4]

Personally I try and be real nice to you guys - I might need a reccomendation real soon

True words my friend. And don't piss off your first officer, you never know when you might be swinging the gear for him/her in your next job.

Cheers!

 

[Palomino]

IB6 UB9;

We are only allowed to carry offline jumpseaters on a per jumpseat basis.
A320 2 jumpseats=2 offline pilots, B757 1 jumpseat=1 offline jumpseater etc..

That being said; often a NWA guy will take a FA jumpseat (if open) or use a pass to get a offline guy on. I did that on my last commute so we could get a
Independance Air gal on out of BDL.

Some guys don't give a shi# and put on as many jumpseaters as there are open seats! But we are not supposed to do that.

I like to have as many extra "crew members" as possible on board! Which all jumpseaters are considered at NWA.

Again sorry for your experience on NWA, we have some real idiots here, you wonder how they have gotten this far in life treating people like that?

Dave B

so if this is company policy then the Captain followed procedure. it was a 757 with the sole jumpseat already occupied. are we going to continue to beat this horse carcass?

it's funny as we get more info on the other side of the story that the evil mask seems to be peeling off of this NWA Captain.

move on with life. people get bumped out of the jumpseat. this time the odds were against you. it happens.

as i see it the Captain did his job whether you like it or not.

 

[thav8r]

You know....

The original intent of givin the PIC sole discretion over the cockpit jumpseat was to prevent those individuals who are not normally authorized access to the cockpit. The idea was to take the pressure of the PIC when some moron (customer, charterer) demanded access to the cockpit putting the PIC in a precarious position.

It is inconcievable that a regulation designed to protect crews from outside forces is now being used as a tool against the very crewmembers they are designed to protect.

Pay, anger, sensitivities, it really doesnt matter. This is truly a hopeless path that will do nothing but further divide our profession making life even more miserable as displacements cascade through the system.

 

[IB6 UB9]

I agree. Cooler head prevailing, rational thoughts returning, and due to the advice of the professionals on this board, a couple of emails, etc., I retract my original statement. I will not deny an NWA employee, or anyone for that matter, access to my jumpseat. (Except maybe my buddy from the other night). I sincerely hope this matter can somehow resolve over time, although I doubt it will happen.

Palomino, I guess if you work hard at it you can reach that deduction. I suggest you reread the entire thread and if you still have that view then, IMO you are in the minority.

 

[skiav8tor]

Hey IB6,

You might appreciate this one...I was going home from OSC, on WN...I walked up to the counter behind a NW guy, and after two WN Captains...so, there I was 4th in line for an airplane with 2 jumpseats, and every seat full...I, very nicely asked, and the gate agent turned to the 2 WN js'ers, looked to make sure the NW guy had left the area, and said to me, 'don't worry, we're gonna take you, and he (NW) can take the next flight, we like you guys!'. One of their own took the F/A jumpseat. Southwest...a class act! As far as the guy that denied you...I'm sure that is not the norm at NW, at least I hope not...!?!?!

 

[Palomino]

i didn't have to work hard to use the info provided to make an objective observation.

it appears that the only jumpseat on the 757 was already spoken for on this flight. unlimited jumpseats are not company policy on NWA according to the info provided in this thread.

a heated exchange with a bitter Captain occured? i won't argue that. but, that Captain seems to have been in compliance with company procedure.

 

[Mugs]

i didn't have to work hard to use the info provided to make an objective observation.

it appears that the only jumpseat on the 757 was already spoken for on this flight. unlimited jumpseats are not company policy on NWA according to the info provided in this thread.

a heated exchange with a bitter Captain occured? i won't argue that. but, that Captain seems to have been in compliance with company procedure.

If company manadated procedures result in the denial of a jumpseat ride, then it seems to me that professional courtesy mandates an explanation. If the jumpseater walks off the airplane without an understanding as to why he was unable to be accomodated, then the captain didn't excercise basic courtesy. It can only be assumed then that a game is being played. As the F/O, nothing can stop you from explaining a company policy to the guy yourself. If it is an outright denial, nothing can stop the F/O from packing his stuff and telling the moron to find another F/O. Sure you would still get a management order to fly in that situation, but then the story gets out and picks up steam from there.

 

[ironspud]

I am sorry that you were bumped, but I have read the comments on this thread and they are perplexing at best.

Some are brow beating a crew member who has the right to deny a jumpseat. It is his right. We are commuters, that is our right and a privilidge. You don't like it, move to your base. This is a chance we take for living where and how we want to live.

It is sad that this captain is holding the likes of JB responsible for a declining industry, but, it is his right. The real man you NWA guys and gals, and the rest of us, should be hounding is that jackal that is employed by you and running alpa. Duane Woreth gets a guarnteed (changed to guarnteed in
the last few years versus a perscentage of highest member pay) package of $500,000 a year while the rest of you get ready to take huge paycuts. He is ineffective! ALPA should be preparing for an SOS and he is trying to deliver a petition to a white house that would not even take a union survey during an election year.

Like it or not this is where the blame should be laid, not on a captains right. If it were'nt for the short comings of ALPA and the lack of tecticles to protect your pensions, jobs etc.... perhaps this captain would'nt be such an a$$.

Good luck to you all.

I olny sepll taht bad wehn I am dinrknig.

Oh.. I am dinrknig. Neevr mnid.

 

[NTS ALL 4]

I olny sepll taht bad wehn I am dinrknig.

Oh.. I am dinrknig. Neevr mnid.

Me thinks it was too many rotor blades thumping your head.

Cheers!

 

[100LL... Again!]

Personally, I would llike to see abusers of "Captain's Authority" treated the way they treat scabs.

Standard calls only. I f I flew with a horse's arse like this, he can talk to himself for the whole trip. And I would encourage other pilots to follow suit.

Perhaps ostracizing him a little would bring mr. crabby-pants NW captain around to a new way of thinking.

You "Captains Authority" folks really have to put down the hand lotion once in a while. Authority abused will eventually become authority revoked.

 

[B6Guy]

Let's get this right

I commute on NWA all the time and the rule has been for the last four or five years TWO offline jumpseaters allowed in cabin seats. The rule of matching the number of offline jumpseaters with the number of cockpit jumpseats was changed sometime after 9/11. I'm on DC9's all the time and TWO offline pilots are allowed in the cabin.

So those trying to exonerate [sp?] this jerk 757 captain are using incorrect information.

Plain and simple he denied a Jetblue jumpseater because who he was working for! He is supporting his family with the paychecks he gets from working at Jetblue so what gives this 757 captain the right to make it difficult to support himself and his family??

I do my best to avoid NWA mainline commuting, but sometimes it just isn't possible. So far I've only had a slight negative attitude from the captain. 99% of the time everyone is great.

B6Guy

 

[AAflyer]

Hey IB6,

You might appreciate this one...I was going home from OSC, on WN...I walked up to the counter behind a NW guy, and after two WN Captains...so, there I was 4th in line for an airplane with 2 jumpseats, and every seat full...I, very nicely asked, and the gate agent turned to the 2 WN js'ers, looked to make sure the NW guy had left the area, and said to me, 'don't worry, we're gonna take you, and he (NW) can take the next flight, we like you guys!'. One of their own took the F/A jumpseat. Southwest...a class act! As far as the guy that denied you...I'm sure that is not the norm at NW, at least I hope not...!?!?!

Good info,
SWA does not give Jumpseats in the order in which they were requested, but given by whom they like best. Not sure that the NWA guy would find that a "class act".

AA