Sorry...I've had it!

[Ty Webb]

Just checked out Critters website and they are charging 72 bucks roundtrip from Atlanta to Savanah.

This has been covered multiple times on this board over the past four years, Chief. . . . we don't set the price any more than the major that dumps capacity into that market does . . . . Normally, I'd be happy to explain it to you, but if you can't even call the airline I fly for by its name, there isn't any reason to spend the time to straighten your ignorant ass out. . . . . . .

So, let's just call it what it is:

Your career expectations are not being met, and so, it's somebody else's fault . . . . sucks to be you.



.

 

[DTW320]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTW320
Yeah, Airtran and Jetblue have been desperately trying to raise fares over the years and that mean 'ol NWA has stopped 'em. GMAFB...

I gotta get over to Wendy's so I can go through the trash for cups so I can get an Airtran ticket.....or maybe I should just pay JB the $25 for JFK-BOS....

Uh, excuse me, but JB and AirTran pilots are going to be making more than any legacy NB pilots. If they want to charge nothing, make a profit and pay top dollar (for the industry today) who cares?TC

Uh, excuse ME, but tell me more about that crystal ball of yours.

The JB guidance of a 4th qtr AND full year 2005 loss is wrong?

JB is making a profit on those $25 fares?

Airtran pilots will prevail in mediation and the company will back down on the requests for cost cuts?

AMR, at least, would have to take a hefty paycut on the NB to make less than JB or AirTran pilots. Not to mention 757 rates at CO. And all of that is in the left seat. FO rates at most legacies would have to come down a lot more to be less than FO rates at JB/AirTran. But Hey, they probably will at the rate we're going. I'm not at all debating the magnitude of the pay cuts at the legacies and the relative strength of the LCC payscales. But lets keep it strictly to facts please.

Besides, none of this was about what LCC pilots make, it was about the claim that NWA not going along with fare increases on some walk-up fares in a few markets was responsible for AirTran not being able to raise ticket prices reulting in the sample fares posted by pipejockey....

FOCUS: I don't think it has been JB/AirTran who has been upset with NWA not going along with some fare increases in the past.

 

[Ty Webb]

Airtran pilots will prevail in mediation and the company will back down on the requests for cost cuts?

The Company's proposal was put out to try to lower expectations . . . it was not taken seriously by the pilot group. I think we are in a great position- working under the current contract as the airline revenue picture improves, and we will have the opportunity to increase our requests if conditions continue to improve . . .

AMR, at least, would have to take a hefty paycut on the NB to make less than JB or AirTran pilots.

Depends how you look at it. I was hired at AirTran in 2001. If I was hired at American that same year, I'd have been furloughed this whole time.

Even if I worked the whole time, at current pay scales, I would have made more total pay at AirTran over the past four years, and would continue to make more every year, based upon the fact that your most junior CA upgraded when George Bush SR. was President (current contract, both carriers) and my retirement is safe.

 

[Palomino]

... and my retirement is safe.

to quote Hemingway...'isn't it pretty to think so?'

 

[DTW320]

based upon the fact that your most junior CA upgraded when George Bush SR. was President (current contract, both carriers) and my retirement is safe.

Hey Ty, like I said in my post: lets stick to the facts please: The junior CA at NWA was HIRED in the summer of 1995(he's MSP reserve DC9) so either you are being fed bad info or your presidential history is seriously flawed.

The Company's proposal was put out to try to lower expectations . . . it was not taken seriously by the pilot group.

Hey, I respect your position but lets see how seriously Joe and the mediators take it OK? Plus the fact that, by your own admission, you guys are in many cases making more than legacy pilots certainly does not help your negotiating position. But then I'm coming from a background of dealing with a company that negotiated even dirtier when they were making big profits. I hope for your sake that there is a positive corporate culture at Airtran and that agreeing that employees should share in the good times is part of management's mindset.

I agree with your other point, i.e. it's all about timing. The fact that for quite a few years our FO's were making more than JB/Airtran Captains has to be factored in. Would a post 1998 NWA hire have done better going to Airtran at the same time? Yes, but many others are still doing better in terms of total compensation, including, until recently, vastly superior benefits.

Blue Skies....

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey Ty, like I said in my post: lets stick to the facts please: The junior CA at NWA was HIRED in the summer of 1995(he's MSP reserve DC9) so either you are being fed bad info or your presidential history is seriously flawed.

I think you missed the reference to AMR, whose most junior CA was a 1990 hire, according to airlinepilotcentral.com:

Most junior captain hired: Feb 1990 (MD80/LGA)

 

[Ty Webb]

to quote Hemingway...'isn't it pretty to think so?'

Uh, yeah, Chief . . . it's deposited twice a month into my Fidelity account.

And to quote Murphy, "Never try to teach a pig to sing".

 

[DTW320]

I think you missed the reference to AMR, whose most junior CA was a 1990 hire, according to airlinepilotcentral.com:

Oh, OK....it was the way you said "your most junior captain" that made me, with a screen name of DTW320, think you meant NWA. But since you are talking about AMR, how is their B plan retirement less safe than yours?

 

[bestpilot]

Just checked out Critters website and they are charging 72 bucks roundtrip from Atlanta to Savanah. That folks is why the profession is in the dumpster. Anyone who thinks that you should be able to fly for that amount is the one on the crackpipe...not I!

Heres another...60 bucks from EWR to MCO, and 125 roundtrip. WHAT!!!
If prices were to be raised by just 20 bucks one way, everyone would be earning profits.
__________________



When is "Critters" contract up for negotiation? I will expect to see a minimum of 20% raises across the board and scope which prohibits any flying of greater than 50 seaters at a regional.
__________________

Mommy! Baaad dude called me Critter again! Booooo hoooooo hoooooo, now I think dat you aint meain to be showin me love be callin me Critter, but dude, it's ALLLLL GOOOOD! Unless you be on dat negotiatin committee or be like one of da peeps who gonna be votin fer da Tranny's next contract, then just wait and see what da peeps git. Here's da deal, my brother from another mother, all the peeps who are at the Tranny know that we're a LOW COST Carryin type of place, and aint nobody expectin like crazy pay raises. Do da peeps at the Tranny want better workin rules? Aww Yeah!

Do we wants contract language dats easier to read and clearer dan like dat stuff I be typin on flightinf? Awww Yeah!

Pay Raise?--Yeah bro, dat be OK too!

Super crazy pay raise dat flushes dat ole competitive advantage stuff down dat porcelin terlit? --Naw bro, lots a da dudes from da Tranny gots da furlough before, and all we be lookin fer is a contract dat makes dis a good place to be workin and a place where we can be keepin our job and our bennies for like way way way way in to da future.

Dats da kind a contract da Trannies be talkin bouts!!

 

[bestpilot]

Uh, yeah, Chief . . . it's deposited twice a month into my Fidelity account.

And to quote Murphy, "Never try to teach a pig to sing".

Ty Guy, why can'ts you try to be teachin da piggy to sing. I saw Charlotte's Web, an like ole Zuckerman's Famous pig had like mad singin skillz.

 

[Ty Webb]

If I could teach a pig to sing I wouldn't be working in a job where I gots ta pass on da duchy, don't ya know.

Now, maybe, I could teach a pig to swing, but only if the pig knew how to wear tight piggy slacks and had some porcine zodiac medallions. . . . F/A's wouldn't know the difference . . . . all men are pigs to them!

 

[AA717driver]

My friends who are still MD80 CA's at AA are making in the 135k range. The hourly pay rate is $154/hr. and it's a whole lot harder (and not politically correct with 3000 on furlough...) to fly 80-85 hours.

JB has lower rates but has the overtime thing. AirTran pays $153/hr. at the top. Plus, they have a pretty good DC retirement rate. At either company, you can do 80 hours/mo. without spending 17-20 days away from home.

AirTran's DC retirement is in an account that the individual pilots own. Each month, when the checks go out of the office, that money is gone--the company cannot touch it. Far safer than the DB plans remaining in place at AA . (Believe me, if AMR offered to do 14% into the Super Saver each month, with a conversion from the A/B funds, the pilots would be morons not to take it. But, I'll reserve comment on the chances of that happening. )

Plus, I'd take the JB or AT QOL over AMR ANY F'ing day of this millinium. Good luck.TC

 

[DTW320]

My friends who are still MD80 CA's at AA are making in the 135k range. The hourly pay rate is $154/hr. and it's a whole lot harder (and not politically correct with 3000 on furlough...) to fly 80-85 hours.

135k range would be around 73 hours/month. I don't work there but I've heard that they fly more than that.

AirTran's DC retirement is in an account that the individual pilots own. Each month, when the checks go out of the office, that money is gone--the company cannot touch it. Far safer than the DB plans remaining in place at AA . (Believe me, if AMR offered to do 14% into the Super Saver each month, with a conversion from the A/B funds, the pilots would be morons not to take it. But, I'll reserve comment on the chances of that happening. )

I'm aware of how a DC plan works. Again, I don't work there but airlinepilotpay.com says that they have an 11% B-Plan in addition to the A plan. A B-plan is a DC plan....just like at Airtran...

Plus, I'd take the JB or AT QOL over AMR ANY F'ing day of this millinium. Good luck.TC

You must not have ever done any long S. America layovers :blush: (before you say it: I know that the MD80 doesn't go there)

 

[-9Capt]

Quote:AMR, at least, would have to take a hefty paycut on the NB to make less than JB or AirTran pilots.

Not true.

 

[-9Capt]

I hope for your sake that there is a positive corporate culture at Airtran and that agreeing that employees should share in the good times is part of management's mindset...

Yeah, we wish.

 

[DTW320]

Not true.

AMR 757 CA (narrowbody) would have to take an 8% cut to get to Airtran rate and a 16% cut to get to JB rate. AMR 757 FO would have to take over 30% cut to = Airtran or JB FO rates. Guess it depends on your definition of "hefty".

 

[-9Capt]

AMR 757 CA (narrowbody) would have to take an 8% cut to get to Airtran rate and a 16% cut to get to JB rate. AMR 757 FO would have to take over 30% cut to = Airtran or JB FO rates. Guess it depends on your definition of "hefty".

There is a lot more to our pay then what you can get off Airlinepilotcentral.

Admittedly, AirTran doesn't have any 757's on the property, we do however have a payscale for them in our current contract, $174/hr (I assume you are talking about 12yr pay). Same for the Airbus $174/hr.

We also have some of the best rigs in the business. I flew 820hrs in '05 and made 1103 credit hrs for '05 ($150K plus).

I'm certainly not bragging here, no airline pilot flying passengers in the USA has anything to brag about, that's for sure, but Airlinepilotcentral doesn't tell the whole story, just raw numbers.

 

[DTW320]

Geez, that's almost 92 hours/month credit. Very nice!

I flew 685 hrs last year for 920 hrs credit so math-wise it seems like we have very similar rig. Ours is 1 for 2 duty and 1 for 3.5 trip hour credit. For now....

Those are nice 757/320 rates. They look familiar.....ahhh memories :crying:.

 

[-9Capt]

Geez, that's almost 92 hours/month credit. Very nice!.

Yeah, and I'm lazy.

The difference in actual/credit also has a lot to do with the fact that AirTran has a hard time building efficient trips. Most trips have some soft pay, some more than others.

I drop/swap for trips that pay more/fly less every month and end up with an extra 15-20hrs.

 

[737 CAPTAIN]

Ive heard rumours ( nothing confirmed ) that a few of our guys have had problems at NWA too.. but each carrier has there few a@###$e.. Ive been turned down myself a couple of times over the years from different carriers.. but i commute and i GET IT .. you guys are more then welcome on my jumpseat.