Sorry...I've had it!

[Ty Webb]

If I could teach a pig to sing I wouldn't be working in a job where I gots ta pass on da duchy, don't ya know.

Now, maybe, I could teach a pig to swing, but only if the pig knew how to wear tight piggy slacks and had some porcine zodiac medallions. . . . F/A's wouldn't know the difference . . . . all men are pigs to them!

 

[AA717driver]

My friends who are still MD80 CA's at AA are making in the 135k range. The hourly pay rate is $154/hr. and it's a whole lot harder (and not politically correct with 3000 on furlough...) to fly 80-85 hours.

JB has lower rates but has the overtime thing. AirTran pays $153/hr. at the top. Plus, they have a pretty good DC retirement rate. At either company, you can do 80 hours/mo. without spending 17-20 days away from home.

AirTran's DC retirement is in an account that the individual pilots own. Each month, when the checks go out of the office, that money is gone--the company cannot touch it. Far safer than the DB plans remaining in place at AA . (Believe me, if AMR offered to do 14% into the Super Saver each month, with a conversion from the A/B funds, the pilots would be morons not to take it. But, I'll reserve comment on the chances of that happening. )

Plus, I'd take the JB or AT QOL over AMR ANY F'ing day of this millinium. Good luck.TC

 

[DTW320]

My friends who are still MD80 CA's at AA are making in the 135k range. The hourly pay rate is $154/hr. and it's a whole lot harder (and not politically correct with 3000 on furlough...) to fly 80-85 hours.

135k range would be around 73 hours/month. I don't work there but I've heard that they fly more than that.

AirTran's DC retirement is in an account that the individual pilots own. Each month, when the checks go out of the office, that money is gone--the company cannot touch it. Far safer than the DB plans remaining in place at AA . (Believe me, if AMR offered to do 14% into the Super Saver each month, with a conversion from the A/B funds, the pilots would be morons not to take it. But, I'll reserve comment on the chances of that happening. )

I'm aware of how a DC plan works. Again, I don't work there but airlinepilotpay.com says that they have an 11% B-Plan in addition to the A plan. A B-plan is a DC plan....just like at Airtran...

Plus, I'd take the JB or AT QOL over AMR ANY F'ing day of this millinium. Good luck.TC

You must not have ever done any long S. America layovers :blush: (before you say it: I know that the MD80 doesn't go there)

 

[-9Capt]

Quote:AMR, at least, would have to take a hefty paycut on the NB to make less than JB or AirTran pilots.

Not true.

 

[-9Capt]

I hope for your sake that there is a positive corporate culture at Airtran and that agreeing that employees should share in the good times is part of management's mindset...

Yeah, we wish.

 

[DTW320]

Not true.

AMR 757 CA (narrowbody) would have to take an 8% cut to get to Airtran rate and a 16% cut to get to JB rate. AMR 757 FO would have to take over 30% cut to = Airtran or JB FO rates. Guess it depends on your definition of "hefty".

 

[-9Capt]

AMR 757 CA (narrowbody) would have to take an 8% cut to get to Airtran rate and a 16% cut to get to JB rate. AMR 757 FO would have to take over 30% cut to = Airtran or JB FO rates. Guess it depends on your definition of "hefty".

There is a lot more to our pay then what you can get off Airlinepilotcentral.

Admittedly, AirTran doesn't have any 757's on the property, we do however have a payscale for them in our current contract, $174/hr (I assume you are talking about 12yr pay). Same for the Airbus $174/hr.

We also have some of the best rigs in the business. I flew 820hrs in '05 and made 1103 credit hrs for '05 ($150K plus).

I'm certainly not bragging here, no airline pilot flying passengers in the USA has anything to brag about, that's for sure, but Airlinepilotcentral doesn't tell the whole story, just raw numbers.

 

[DTW320]

Geez, that's almost 92 hours/month credit. Very nice!

I flew 685 hrs last year for 920 hrs credit so math-wise it seems like we have very similar rig. Ours is 1 for 2 duty and 1 for 3.5 trip hour credit. For now....

Those are nice 757/320 rates. They look familiar.....ahhh memories :crying:.

 

[-9Capt]

Geez, that's almost 92 hours/month credit. Very nice!.

Yeah, and I'm lazy.

The difference in actual/credit also has a lot to do with the fact that AirTran has a hard time building efficient trips. Most trips have some soft pay, some more than others.

I drop/swap for trips that pay more/fly less every month and end up with an extra 15-20hrs.

 

[737 CAPTAIN]

Ive heard rumours ( nothing confirmed ) that a few of our guys have had problems at NWA too.. but each carrier has there few a@###$e.. Ive been turned down myself a couple of times over the years from different carriers.. but i commute and i GET IT .. you guys are more then welcome on my jumpseat.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

IB6 UB9..looks like ALPA might be helping you out...

It can't hurt....and it is better than nothing....

From the ALPA fast read....

During these times of airline turmoil, airlines may be tempted to place artificial restrictions -- specifically, those that do not involve safety concerns -- on using jumpseats. ALPA strongly disagrees with such restrictions and has always maintained that jumpseats should be off limits to any type of dispute that is not related to safety.

ALPA's jumpseat policy, contained in Section 115 of the ALPA Administrative Manual, speaks directly to this subject: "ALPA supports the Captain's authority to exclude any person other than required crew from the flight deck if, in his opinion, that person's presence will compromise safety.
"Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing, or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA. The Jumpseat and/or Professional Standards Representative appointed by the respective Master Executive Council or governing body should resolve disputes that arise between pilots, airlines, or other unions."
ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, says, "Using jumpseats to retaliate against an individual, pilot group, or company is not only wrong. It could also result in violations of the Railway Labor Act, if pilots took those actions to harm a company during collective bargaining." Gigantic fines could be levied against a pilot group if its members misused jumpseats in this way.
"The jumpseat is a mutually beneficial tool that helps airlines and pilots by enhancing safety, security, and efficiency," Capt. Woerth noted. "Both parties must guard against any activities that may damage the viability of that invaluable resource."

 

[Palomino]

you assume that anyone gives a crap about Duane Woerth's spewings. i know i don't.

another addition to the thread that won't die.

 

[FN FAL]

you assume that anyone gives a crap about Duane Woerth's spewings. i know i don't.

another addition to the thread that won't die.

I think it's time the government step in and do something about the jumpseat problem. Possibly pass some regulation, like the "Live in the town you work in Act".

 

[Relic01]

Tonight I was denied the jumpseat on an NWA 757, 1/2 full, last flight of the night, because of where I am employeed. Because of this and recent events, and the disrespect towards my fellow employees displayed over the last 15-18 months...many of whom are furloughed from an ALPA carrier, some of whom are furloughed from this ALPA carrier, I will no longer accept an NWA employee on my jumpseat.

No reason to be sorry, just state "I've had it". Remember, this is only one person from a 5000+ pilot group.

 

[Dizel8]

Quote from another board:

"There is a very good chance that offline jumpseat riding on union airlines will be coming to an end, unless you have a union card on top of your JB ID. This has been brewing for a while now, but it will be happening probably in 2007. Expect Delta to be the first one to implement this followed by NWA".

Discuss!

 

[Occam's Razor]

OMG!

Every one would have to live in their base!!!!

Horror!

Blanche DuBois said it best....

 

[IB6 UB9]

It can't hurt....and it is better than nothing....

From the ALPA fast read....

During these times of airline turmoil, airlines may be tempted to place artificial restrictions -- specifically, those that do not involve safety concerns -- on using jumpseats. ALPA strongly disagrees with such restrictions and has always maintained that jumpseats should be off limits to any type of dispute that is not related to safety.

ALPA's jumpseat policy, contained in Section 115 of the ALPA Administrative Manual, speaks directly to this subject: "ALPA supports the Captain's authority to exclude any person other than required crew from the flight deck if, in his opinion, that person's presence will compromise safety.
"Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing, or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA. The Jumpseat and/or Professional Standards Representative appointed by the respective Master Executive Council or governing body should resolve disputes that arise between pilots, airlines, or other unions."
ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, says, "Using jumpseats to retaliate against an individual, pilot group, or company is not only wrong. It could also result in violations of the Railway Labor Act, if pilots took those actions to harm a company during collective bargaining." Gigantic fines could be levied against a pilot group if its members misused jumpseats in this way.
"The jumpseat is a mutually beneficial tool that helps airlines and pilots by enhancing safety, security, and efficiency," Capt. Woerth noted. "Both parties must guard against any activities that may damage the viability of that invaluable resource."

I got an email on this yesterday. Me and DW are tight now and as a result he came out with this. Go ALPA! (Should I have this printed and laminated and hand it to the Captain when requesting a jumpseat?)

 

[-9Capt]

OMG!

Every one would have to live in their base!!!!

Horror!

Blanche DuBois said it best....

Or just commute on their own airline.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I got an email on this yesterday. Me and DW are tight now and as a result he came out with this. Go ALPA! (Should I have this printed and laminated and hand it to the Captain when requesting a jumpseat?)

Use the thick card stock laminate.... oh and a Starbucks card descretly placed in between your Airman certificate and ALPA card.... The icing on the cake wold be a badge backer with anti 9E and XJ rhetoric.... Even the most disgruntled NWA Capt can't turn you down!!

Was that you and DW at the Caps game at the MCI Center?

 

[Hvy]

Hey IB6,

You might appreciate this one...I was going home from OSC, on WN...I walked up to the counter behind a NW guy, and after two WN Captains...so, there I was 4th in line for an airplane with 2 jumpseats, and every seat full...I, very nicely asked, and the gate agent turned to the 2 WN js'ers, looked to make sure the NW guy had left the area, and said to me, 'don't worry, we're gonna take you, and he (NW) can take the next flight, we like you guys!'. One of their own took the F/A jumpseat. Southwest...a class act! As far as the guy that denied you...I'm sure that is not the norm at NW, at least I hope not...!?!?!

Hmmm...so it's o.k. to favor you even though
the NWA guy was in line 1st? Doen't sound like a "class act" to me. Sounds like they didn't get him on because he was NWA. Thats NO different than the post that started this whole thread. (which, by the way, we've only heard one side of the story).

 

[IB6 UB9]

Hmmm...so it's o.k. to favor you even though
the NWA guy was in line 1st? Doen't sound like a "class act" to me. Sounds like they didn't get him on because he was NWA. Thats NO different than the post that started this whole thread. (which, by the way, we've only heard one side of the story).

(groan) Right...I made it up.

 

[Hvy]

(groan) Right...I made it up.

No where in my post do I state that "you made it up." That being said, only a fool goes off half-cocked with only part of the information.
I would need to hear the Captain's side on the story before chastising his supposed actions.

As a furloughed ALPA member you should be aware that there are proper avenues to address such issues. A public forum is not one of them. You may get some sympathy but writing about it here does not offer any solutions that you may be looking for.

I will say this...you mentioned your girlfriend (I think that was it...there were so many posts) confronting the Captain after the flight? Not only was this inappropriate for her to do as she has NO say on what the Captain does or does not do ... I question your thought process for bragging about it. I wouldn't be too proud of my wife had she conducted herself in that manner by verbally assaulting the crew. I also see red flags from your initial statement concerning rejection of future NWA jumpseaters. Childish at best.

 

[Waitin' On LUV]

Therer will be NO NATIONAL UNITY among pilot groups. You may stake your life on that.

Hmm.. My airline has National Unity, From OAK all the way to BWI

 

[starvingredtail]

Hey HVY,
I work at NW and Ive been involved in this issue and it is happening. Your post is about 2 months out of date. This thread is probably "the" example ALPA used to come down on the NW pilots. The girlfriend mentioned is closely associated with NWA. She knows the "etiquite" of jumpseating and pass riding. I appreciate that you just came in on this thread, but a huge amount was removed by moderators because ALPA and the JB JS coordinators needed some time to work out some issues. I will flat out tell you the NW Captain here was WRONG. In his mind, I know he has a lot of issues to contend with. He is also caught up in a "pack mentality" that is wrongly going around amongst a tight group of Captains at NWA. IB6UB9 tried all the avenues, and then some NWA guys tried in his behalf from the other end. There was no solution. This thread is what gave ALPA the "momentum" to get up off its a$$ and work a solution to the problem. I think you need to read through all the pages of this thread if you are going to call someone childish or you come off looking like a pompus loser. IB6 clearly rectified his initial rage with a well thought out clarification. Go back and re read the whole thing and see if it does not come back in perspective.

 

[Deli Guy]

I was involved in this too from the NWA end. If you search the whole thread, you will see the lengths that IB6 went too to make this work out. This is actually a spin off of another thread where this same thing happened before. It seems a group of NW capt's have identified B6 as the target and are using power they actually do not have to punish B6 jseaters. That is why ALPA has published this:
From the ALPA fast read....

During these times of airline turmoil, airlines may be tempted to place artificial restrictions -- specifically, those that do not involve safety concerns -- on using jumpseats. ALPA strongly disagrees with such restrictions and has always maintained that jumpseats should be off limits to any type of dispute that is not related to safety.

ALPA's jumpseat policy, contained in Section 115 of the ALPA Administrative Manual, speaks directly to this subject: "ALPA supports the Captain's authority to exclude any person other than required crew from the flight deck if, in his opinion, that person's presence will compromise safety.
"Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing, or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA. The Jumpseat and/or Professional Standards Representative appointed by the respective Master Executive Council or governing body should resolve disputes that arise between pilots, airlines, or other unions."
ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, says, "Using jumpseats to retaliate against an individual, pilot group, or company is not only wrong. It could also result in violations of the Railway Labor Act, if pilots took those actions to harm a company during collective bargaining." Gigantic fines could be levied against a pilot group if its members misused jumpseats in this way.
"The jumpseat is a mutually beneficial tool that helps airlines and pilots by enhancing safety, security, and efficiency," Capt. Woerth noted. "Both parties must guard against any activities that may damage the viability of that invaluable resource."

I applaud ALPA's responce to a problem that is getting out of hand.
Deli