Sorry...I've had it!

[thav8r]

You know....

The original intent of givin the PIC sole discretion over the cockpit jumpseat was to prevent those individuals who are not normally authorized access to the cockpit. The idea was to take the pressure of the PIC when some moron (customer, charterer) demanded access to the cockpit putting the PIC in a precarious position.

It is inconcievable that a regulation designed to protect crews from outside forces is now being used as a tool against the very crewmembers they are designed to protect.

Pay, anger, sensitivities, it really doesnt matter. This is truly a hopeless path that will do nothing but further divide our profession making life even more miserable as displacements cascade through the system.

 

[IB6 UB9]

I agree. Cooler head prevailing, rational thoughts returning, and due to the advice of the professionals on this board, a couple of emails, etc., I retract my original statement. I will not deny an NWA employee, or anyone for that matter, access to my jumpseat. (Except maybe my buddy from the other night). I sincerely hope this matter can somehow resolve over time, although I doubt it will happen.

Palomino, I guess if you work hard at it you can reach that deduction. I suggest you reread the entire thread and if you still have that view then, IMO you are in the minority.

 

[skiav8tor]

Hey IB6,

You might appreciate this one...I was going home from OSC, on WN...I walked up to the counter behind a NW guy, and after two WN Captains...so, there I was 4th in line for an airplane with 2 jumpseats, and every seat full...I, very nicely asked, and the gate agent turned to the 2 WN js'ers, looked to make sure the NW guy had left the area, and said to me, 'don't worry, we're gonna take you, and he (NW) can take the next flight, we like you guys!'. One of their own took the F/A jumpseat. Southwest...a class act! As far as the guy that denied you...I'm sure that is not the norm at NW, at least I hope not...!?!?!

 

[Palomino]

i didn't have to work hard to use the info provided to make an objective observation.

it appears that the only jumpseat on the 757 was already spoken for on this flight. unlimited jumpseats are not company policy on NWA according to the info provided in this thread.

a heated exchange with a bitter Captain occured? i won't argue that. but, that Captain seems to have been in compliance with company procedure.

 

[Mugs]

i didn't have to work hard to use the info provided to make an objective observation.

it appears that the only jumpseat on the 757 was already spoken for on this flight. unlimited jumpseats are not company policy on NWA according to the info provided in this thread.

a heated exchange with a bitter Captain occured? i won't argue that. but, that Captain seems to have been in compliance with company procedure.

If company manadated procedures result in the denial of a jumpseat ride, then it seems to me that professional courtesy mandates an explanation. If the jumpseater walks off the airplane without an understanding as to why he was unable to be accomodated, then the captain didn't excercise basic courtesy. It can only be assumed then that a game is being played. As the F/O, nothing can stop you from explaining a company policy to the guy yourself. If it is an outright denial, nothing can stop the F/O from packing his stuff and telling the moron to find another F/O. Sure you would still get a management order to fly in that situation, but then the story gets out and picks up steam from there.

 

[ironspud]

I am sorry that you were bumped, but I have read the comments on this thread and they are perplexing at best.

Some are brow beating a crew member who has the right to deny a jumpseat. It is his right. We are commuters, that is our right and a privilidge. You don't like it, move to your base. This is a chance we take for living where and how we want to live.

It is sad that this captain is holding the likes of JB responsible for a declining industry, but, it is his right. The real man you NWA guys and gals, and the rest of us, should be hounding is that jackal that is employed by you and running alpa. Duane Woreth gets a guarnteed (changed to guarnteed in
the last few years versus a perscentage of highest member pay) package of $500,000 a year while the rest of you get ready to take huge paycuts. He is ineffective! ALPA should be preparing for an SOS and he is trying to deliver a petition to a white house that would not even take a union survey during an election year.

Like it or not this is where the blame should be laid, not on a captains right. If it were'nt for the short comings of ALPA and the lack of tecticles to protect your pensions, jobs etc.... perhaps this captain would'nt be such an a$$.

Good luck to you all.

I olny sepll taht bad wehn I am dinrknig.

Oh.. I am dinrknig. Neevr mnid.

 

[NTS ALL 4]

I olny sepll taht bad wehn I am dinrknig.

Oh.. I am dinrknig. Neevr mnid.

Me thinks it was too many rotor blades thumping your head.

Cheers!

 

[100LL... Again!]

Personally, I would llike to see abusers of "Captain's Authority" treated the way they treat scabs.

Standard calls only. I f I flew with a horse's arse like this, he can talk to himself for the whole trip. And I would encourage other pilots to follow suit.

Perhaps ostracizing him a little would bring mr. crabby-pants NW captain around to a new way of thinking.

You "Captains Authority" folks really have to put down the hand lotion once in a while. Authority abused will eventually become authority revoked.

 

[B6Guy]

Let's get this right

I commute on NWA all the time and the rule has been for the last four or five years TWO offline jumpseaters allowed in cabin seats. The rule of matching the number of offline jumpseaters with the number of cockpit jumpseats was changed sometime after 9/11. I'm on DC9's all the time and TWO offline pilots are allowed in the cabin.

So those trying to exonerate [sp?] this jerk 757 captain are using incorrect information.

Plain and simple he denied a Jetblue jumpseater because who he was working for! He is supporting his family with the paychecks he gets from working at Jetblue so what gives this 757 captain the right to make it difficult to support himself and his family??

I do my best to avoid NWA mainline commuting, but sometimes it just isn't possible. So far I've only had a slight negative attitude from the captain. 99% of the time everyone is great.

B6Guy

 

[AAflyer]

Hey IB6,

You might appreciate this one...I was going home from OSC, on WN...I walked up to the counter behind a NW guy, and after two WN Captains...so, there I was 4th in line for an airplane with 2 jumpseats, and every seat full...I, very nicely asked, and the gate agent turned to the 2 WN js'ers, looked to make sure the NW guy had left the area, and said to me, 'don't worry, we're gonna take you, and he (NW) can take the next flight, we like you guys!'. One of their own took the F/A jumpseat. Southwest...a class act! As far as the guy that denied you...I'm sure that is not the norm at NW, at least I hope not...!?!?!

Good info,
SWA does not give Jumpseats in the order in which they were requested, but given by whom they like best. Not sure that the NWA guy would find that a "class act".

AA

 

[furloughfodder]

Why don't you just buy a ticket?

They are only like $29 on Jetblue or Southwest....or you can ride Spirit for $9 if you are tight on cash.

 

[OPECJet]

NW pilots won sole jumpseat authority during their last contract and the company has no say?

I hope this is not the case considering many carriers will take as many NWA, or any other pilots as there are open seats. I've never been a fan of restricting access to pilots of carriers who will not accept multiple riders, but at what point are pilots of other carriers going to have to take a stand? That will not benefit anyone.

I like the peer pressure idea, but I would approach it tactfully. There is no sense in making an NWA pilot riding with you feel uneasy as he asks you for a ride. He might not even know the tool who denied you.

Hope it works out.

 

[freightdogfred]

Duuude, parts a me is goin to be agreein wit da Yogourt. Sometimes like da jumpseat dude is like lookin like a slob, wearin ole flip-flops and smellin like he had too many brewskis, or aint showin da proper creds, so dude ain't going. But even if dude is a little bit of a putzknocker, I still gonna let him on, if he can jus get it under control. But no way I be usin jumpseat as a tool to be like doin udder peeps day way. Chuckie, you always gots a ride on da Tranny, just make sure you take your meds, duude.


Jet Blue dude sounds like ha aint dat type, he wuz just tryin to get to his crib, and like NWA Captain dude wuz like gonna punish him just cause the dude worked for da Blue.

See, like here's da deal. If I be like wantin to Jumpseat, I'll like show da guy all da stuff (license, med, passapuerto, etc), den like just be like really nice and like professional.

Naw Bro, I don't be sayin "Hey, dude, here I be to like be jumpseatin on your airship to get to my peeps and my brewskis, now gimmie dat good seat up in da front!"

You cant's be rude, and you gots to axs da Capt's permission and just be smart.

Jet Blue dude got whacked, and duuuude, dat suuuuuucks, but DON'T BE HATIN, and don't take it out on some udder NWA pilot, cause dude mo debinitly don't deserve it.

You funny...Dat U on my JS last week?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Tonight I was denied the jumpseat on an NWA 757, 1/2 full, last flight of the night, because of where I am employeed. Because of this and recent events, and the disrespect towards my fellow employees displayed over the last 15-18 months...many of whom are furloughed from an ALPA carrier, some of whom are furloughed from this ALPA carrier, I will no longer accept an NWA employee on my jumpseat.

Take the high road....tell your J/S comittee chairman...tell him/her what happened, with all pertinent data....tell him/her you want to know what they are gonna do with your infomation and you want to know the outcome...

the next time you get a NWA pilot on your J/S...you will prove that you are a bigger person and more professional than the Capt on the 1/2 full 757.

AFTER you land, you will let the NWA J/S know (without any emotion) calmly, what happened to you....and maybe he can take this up with his J/S comittee chairman also on behalf of all NWA pilots who need to use your J/S...just as much as you need theirs.

This doen't need to become a civil war just because of the behavior of one or two idiots.

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I don't know if I'll deny a jumpseat but the guy is going to need an ice-pack for his ears after he gets done listening to my tirade.
B6Guy.

Why??? So he can leave with the impression that he just flew with a "blowhard"?

Why not take the high road and be professional about it. After the flight, ask him (calmly, professionally) how he thinks this problem can be handled so that all commuters won't have to deal with this in the future.

In my career, I have flown with one Capt who treated an AA J/S'er like crap....and I used to use the AA J/S alot. After that flight, I told him that I was commuter and need the AA j/S on occasion.

His response? He didn't care about my occasional need. OK....I quit caring about his and infomed him that I would be calling Professional Standards and the J/S folks about his unprofessional behavior.

I also remember that I packed my s*#t and got off the flight just before the last leg of the trip and left him high and dry in MSY. Believe me, that got everyone's attention and put his name on everybody's list.

That happened more than 10 years ago....that guy was a pain to fly with.

Tejas

 

[B6Guy]

The only way

The only way these Jerk captains are going to get peer pressure is from their peers [by definition]. And since it has been asked to NOT post these captian's names on this public forum, but rather to transmit their names by PM, then the only effective way is going to be to inform every NWA jumpseat requestor about the antics of the few NWA captians that are putting the jumpseat in jepoardy for all JB and NWA jumpseaters. There are too few reading these forums

I won't deny a Jumpseater, but they WILL be educated if I have time. They are the peers who have to apply the pressure. If it gets to be known at NWA that these wayward captains are causing a serious problem for their own people, then the blanket parties may be considered by their peers.

There are stinkers at every carrier, but the frequency of several names on the denial list indicates that these guys are bidding JFK and LGA flights just to add as much misery as possible to JB commuters.

As far as buying a ticket, why should I have to?? I may have to start buying tickets, but that is only going to add fuel to the fire. I provide NW jumpseaters a seat, and often create a seat by insisting that a JB deadheader sit up in the cockpit freeing up a seat in back for an offline FA. I know the pain of jumpseating so I do everything to make it as easy as possible, like all of us at JB do.

If someone wants to point fingers, the whole problem now is too little revenue. And since NWA is the poster-child for not matching fare increases for what?? the last ten years?? Maybe all carriers should blacklist all NWA jumpseaters since they work for NWA, That would be fair wouldn't it?? [sarcasm incase you didn't catch it] Just as fair and proper as it is for NWA captains to deny a jumpseat or one of the two cabin seats to JB pilots because of where we work.

[sarcasm] Pilots unite!! blacklist NWA jumpseaters!! Their company is responsible for the demise of the industry!! The refusal by NWA to match fare increases over the last decade has driven down the injustry and caused the misery at UAL, UsAirways, Delta and every other carrier who has taken pay and work-rule cuts. Therefore is is the pilots who work at NWA fault for all the current pay cuts and furloughs[Sarcasm]

And for those who keep harping about 'just contact your JS coordinator with flight info and let them take care of it'. Well that has been what has been done for 15+ months, and the problem is spreading, not lessening.

So the next step?? Peer pressure, or ???

 

[GRJRKNSKYDUMY]

Actually, I think that instead of distributing these Captains names to B6 pilots, they should be distributed to junior NW folks.
This way if they get furloughed (And I wish this on no one) they can make sure that their next airline of choice meets with these Captains approval.

 

[WWJB]

what the !@$#

I'm gonna lay this out as clear as I can. The COMPANY owns the jumpseat. There are COMPANY POLICIES as to who can ride in the jumpseat.

"The Captain can deny the jumpseat to whoever he likes with no logical, defendable reason given."..........Bulls!@#

What really is going on here is that an employee of a company is not complying with policy and is not being held accountable for his actions.

The silence from the NWA jumpseat committe is deafening. How about: "do this again and you'll be off for a month."

I have, and will continue to bend over backwards for offline jumpseaters. And, I have always been treated well by other airline pilots when I've jumseated offline (never been on NWA, but have many friends there and hope that pilot group would extend recipricol professional courtesies).

I hope that if I am ever denied a jumpseat I will have had the forsight to reach into my flight bag, grab an ID90, hold it up to the capt and tell him to kiss my blue crack..."I'll be in back eating your peanuts if you need me."

 

[320AV8R]

Here's a blurb out of the FOM describing the number of Other Air Line (OAL) jumpseaters that can be accepted.


320AV8R


Cabin Jumpseating
OAL pilots and dispatchers may be authorized for cabin jumpseats.A total of two
(2) cabin seats may be utilized by OAL pilots and dispatchers, in addition to the
flight deck jumpseats utilized by NWA personnel or authorized OAL pilots.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Thanks for posting that and clearing that up. Palomino...you there?