Some Delta/NWA route swaps......

[NuGuy]

yeah the one with the hardest interview process in the industry...

This alone almost moves this guy to the "troll" category...

This is like one of those guys that says his 172 time is "special" 'cause he did it at Riddle...

Nu

 

[nonstop]

This alone almost moves this guy to the "troll" category...

This is like one of those guys that says his 172 time is "special" 'cause he did it at Riddle...

Nu

Hey it's hard to be a "yes" man. Or is the psychological profile scanning for superior aviator skills? lol

Congrats, if you passed the DAL interview you passed the "I probably won't strike" test. We can identify you by your gigantic hat.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

We can identify you by your gigantic hat.

You mean, "our" gigantic hat.


I'm ready to shut this place down a the drop of said gigantic hat if the word "paycut" is involved.

 

[nonstop]

You mean, "our" gigantic hat.


I'm ready to shut this place down a the drop of said gigantic hat if the word "paycut" is involved.

I meant "your" but good start.

 

[General Lee]

General,

I don't think we'll be seeing any additional 76 "domestic" bases. All will be "ER" and operate dual operations. LAX and ATL will be the sole remaining separate ER and domestic bases.

...and probably will be converted in a few years.

That is correct. All of the 757/767 bases will eventually be converted to both domestic and INTL in one category. ATL will be the last one, since it is the biggest.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

What makes you so sure things are going to be so great. I was hired in 01. My pre-merge seniority number moved up around 3700 numbers. I almost moved up 4000 numbers and I am still the bottom of the barrel. My new number is almost 11k. Take a look at Mother D's history of replacing airframes, it sucks! 73-200/300,L10,76-200 what replaced them? we had around 120 727's which we replaced with 71 73-800's. We have over 100 88's 70 DC-9's, a huge amount of 75's combined. How many 747's are there, they are going away. The only airframe with a current long term future here is the 777 and we have a whole 10 of those! When I was hired I thought I could be a bottom rung captain on something when I hit around sixty percent of this list. Well I am there on the pre-merge list and I am stil wondering if I am going to get re-furloughed. I personally feel we have a 50 percent chance of having history repeat itself for the next 7 years. Please explain to me why I am wrong and what is this companies grand plans. I hear a lot of talk of fleet flexibility and permanently removing costs from the balance sheet. Hate to be a pessimist, but 5 years on the street has made me bitter.

This industry is always in a cycle, some good years and then some bad. The difference with us now is that we have gone through some pretty rough years (9-11 and BK for both of us--DL/NWA), and we did clean out some major cobbwebs. It hurt a lot, but we are positioned now better than most. Oil is low currently, which will help during this down economy. We are planning on getting a lot more than just 10 777s, and we have plenty of more years left on most of our fleet. Some of it may go away sooner than the rest, but we also have some protections when it comes to furloughing (anyone hired before 9-1-01 or anyone who has someone junior to him/her hired before that date----will have some protection since DL will have to get rid of 6 seats in EVERY 76 seat RJ if one person hired before that date is furloughed.....and a Compass flowdown that would be very expensive). Add to that a fairly good balance sheet, (we will have $7.5 billion in cash in 09) which can't really be used against us for leverage, means we are in a pretty good position. Lower gas in 09 could mean up to $5 billion in savings that year ALONE. That is good for all of us. And, so far our merger has gone fairly well, with both sides upset about the SLI.

If you are unhappy about possibly getting bumped off of a widebody, ask yourself what NORMAL route would a pilot at a major take in his/her career? Some here were hired right onto a widebody, which is a lot different than when I got hired in late 96. We all went to the FE seat on a 727 for a year or two, and then onto a 737 or MD88. It took a few years to even get bottom reserve on a 757, and the 767 paid more at the time and was a lot more senior. A lot of guys hung out on the FE panel of the L1011, and enjoyed Europe from a side saddle seat.

So, try to put it in perspective, and know that NWA will be retiring a bunch of guys fairly soon, and you will see that seat again if you get bumped off. Future furloughs at Delta could get really expensive for them, and I think they know that.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[licorice]

My percentage up the seniority list compared to where it would be had we stayed separate gets worse and worse every single year until 2024 where I am 53 percent from the bottom compared to 42 percent from bottom had we stayed separate.

53% from the bottom is better than 42% from the bottom. I assume you meant "from the top"

The Delta pilots hands down won this arbitration.

Not "won"...We evidently, had a more reasonable or accurate conception of what was "fair". Three neutral, unbiased arbitrators agreed (implicitly) that our proposal was closer to fair than yours. There is no feeling of "victory" in a fair or neutral award, rather, we are more "relieved" that we didn't lose disproportionately considering the equities we brought to the merger.

Katz is a worthless lawyer that loses every single seniority case he deals with. Why ALPA still employs him is beyond me.

Do not blame it on the lawyer,
he did not dictate the DOH strategy, your MEC did. IMO, your side had a "nothing to lose" strategy, the worst you could do, almost by default, was relative seniority, the best you could do was a "titanic" DOH windfall. As it became apparent, your most legitimate concern was attrition, but to propose the immediately unfair, divisive and impractical DOH/fences list (based on year-old fleet/manning data) because you COULD, and/or to capture merely 300 more positions in the uncertain future of 10 years, was excessive. I think your negotiators obviously were "made aware" of that during the mediation phase, but it was too late. Your expectations were set beyond the stratosphere with the DOH proposal. But somehow, someway, don't you think that the idea of only 210 Delta pilots in the top 1400 positions should have rang a faint alarm bell somewhere in the remote recesses of the collective NWA conscience? This glaring, roaring, colossal monstrosity of the immediate demographic result of DOH served to reduce the machinations of moderately more future attrition to a vague, feeble, and wimpering insignificance.

That being said, it is more beneficial to all of us to just suck it up and move on. No one wants a US Airways' situation.

.

---That being said, I will agree with you. Good luck to you, you are young and have a great future ahead of you at this new airline.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

That is correct. You will see all 757/767 flying converted to ER bases, hence MSP ERB

I would guess that they could put the 88 base there any time after SOC. It is easier to do trips in and out of DTW and MSP on a domestic jet versus an international one.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

GL,

It is finally good to hear y'all acknowledge our significant near term attrition. Too bad the arbitraitors did not. There are parts of our list that will never recover (86-89) hires. All in all my group (95) did ok. However, looking at my percentages I start losing ground in 2016 and peak out at a 7% difference for the yrs 2020-2023 then slowly recover to be back at my stand alone % by 2028. Now in fairness, I end up retiring within 2 #s of my original NWA prediction a few years later. Most FNW pilots will not ever be anywhere close to their stand alone percentages. Lets just hope for all of our sakes though this place is a survivor. :beer:

In 5 to 6 years when the NWA guys all start to bailout, we will be golden. There will be widebody Capt seat bids out every month, with 744 and A330 seats opening up in wide numbers. That is good for ALL of us. So, ride it out for the next 5 years or so on something you don't mind flying. If you are young, then no problem. Maybe you weren't around after 9-11, during all of the furloughs. A lot of people were bumped down a couple plane types after we got rid of the L1011s and 727s, and it took about 5 years to start hiring again and moving back up. I was lucky and stayed on the 767, but I may have even had a couple months of reserve back then, and I think I took out my frustration on people on FI. Sorry about that! It will all come back eventually, and if you get bumped your transition back won't be too tough. Tough it out man! Hopefully everyone will stay employed, that is the main thing. Atleast we have this Compass thing and the 76-70 seat protection deal. Better than nothing.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyinPiker]

That is my plan. MSP ERB

Do you think you'll be able to hold it?