Some Delta/NWA route swaps......

[767/757]

That is correct. All of the 757/767 bases will eventually be converted to both domestic and INTL in one category. ATL will be the last one, since it is the biggest.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Source?

 

[GogglesPisano]

Do you guys think an '07 hire will be able to hold NYC ER FO going forward?

I definitely see them shrinking that category as the A330's move in and the 767's go east.

But it's still JFK.:crying:

 

[Speedbird34]

Do you think you'll be able to hold it?

shut up

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Source?

I will PM you this info.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Do you guys think an '07 hire will be able to hold NYC ER FO going forward?

I definitely see them shrinking that category as the A330's move in and the 767's go east.

But it's still JFK.:crying:

That is the million dollar question. JFK is JFK, and it is by far the hardest base to commute to. I am sure that on some level there will be an ER base in NYC. I would even guess that some of the new hires will still hold it. Albeit, not holding weekends off and three days to TLV!

 

[clippyrip]

I start losing ground in 2016 and peak out at a 7% difference for the yrs 2020-2023 then slowly recover to be back at my stand alone % by 2028.

Wow, lucky you. I start off at 1% behind, bottom out out at 10% behind, to never fully recover with a finish at 2% behind. So much for relative seniority BS, Delta won.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Wow, lucky you. I start off at 1% behind, bottom out out at 10% behind, to never fully recover with a finish at 2% behind. So much for relative seniority BS, Delta won.

Yes, but all you can hold now is an engineer seat. When those aircraft retire shortly, you'll be able to upgrade to a window seat.
So looks like a win for you as an FNG!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Well I think that everyone is for the most part behind. I am only behind about 1% my whole career. Some did not fair as well.
Remember that with this many jets, and this many pilots a few percentage points will not effect your overall expectations! Unless you want to be in a senior base.

 

[fishguy79]

GL,

It is finally good to hear y'all acknowledge our significant near term attrition. Too bad the arbitraitors did not. There are parts of our list that will never recover (86-89) hires. All in all my group (95) did ok. However, looking at my percentages I start losing ground in 2016 and peak out at a 7% difference for the yrs 2020-2023 then slowly recover to be back at my stand alone % by 2028. Now in fairness, I end up retiring within 2 #s of my original NWA prediction a few years later. Most FNW pilots will not ever be anywhere close to their stand alone percentages. Lets just hope for all of our sakes though this place is a survivor. :beer:

Are you defining near term as five years from now??? I just looked at the combined retirments and we will not see any signifcant movement until 2013 and then it is only in the 100's.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

The NWA guys are assuming age 60 retirements, which for now will at least be mostly correct.

After a couple years it will wane and trickle back to 65 as the frozen pensions get smaller. This is a fact they have a hard time admitting!

 

[FlyinPiker]

That is the million dollar question. JFK is JFK, and it is by far the hardest base to commute to. I am sure that on some level there will be an ER base in NYC. I would even guess that some of the new hires will still hold it. Albeit, not holding weekends off and three days to TLV!

Precisely why I don't think any newhires will be holding ER MSP anytime soon if it comes to pass.

 

[nwaredtail]

The NWA guys are assuming age 60 retirements, which for now will at least be mostly correct.

After a couple years it will wane and trickle back to 65 as the frozen pensions get smaller. This is a fact they have a hard time admitting!

Well, we had 6 go in January, more than DAl is supposed to have in the next FIVE YEARS.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Some are leaving anyways...its just not projected. I've moved up 121 numbers since I was hired.

 

[General Lee]

Well, we had 6 go in January, more than DAl is supposed to have in the next FIVE YEARS.

You will probably retire more AIRPLANES than we will within the next 5 years though...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Schwanker]

The NWA guys are assuming age 60 retirements, which for now will at least be mostly correct.

After a couple years it will wane and trickle back to 65 as the frozen pensions get smaller. This is a fact they have a hard time admitting!

Using age 65 for both lists:

I gained 1% relative seniority today.

I'll lose 13% relative seniority over next 12 years compared to stand-alone.

I finish at 8% (merged) vs. less than 2% (stand-alone).

All are based on age 65 and static size of seniority list...ie...we always stay at 124## pilots.

Again, not bitching as it's over and there's nothing I can do about it. Just the facts.

Schwanker

 

[FDJ2]

"Equity demands that the Northwest pilots’ expectations not be fully foiled by the merger. Fairness, however, requires some tempering of the potential impact power of the adjustment mechanism. It would be myopic for this Board to focus solely on the stand-alone attrition expectations of the NWA pilot group. We accept they may constitute a legitimate career expectation, but one must also consider other elements reasonably regarded as potentially dampening those expectations.

20 The Northwest fleet, for example is composed of numerous aircraft of questionable long-term utility."​

Richard I. Bloch, Dana Edward Eischen,Fredric R. Horowitz​

There were several equities that needed to be balanced. Delta had a disproportionately larger fleet of wide bodied and 757 aircraft, NWA had more attrition, NWA pilots will receive larger pay raises, DAL pilots will see more short term retirements, Delta had a growing fleet, NWA was looking at further contraction. Quite a bit to balance. If anyone focusses on just one equity, then the award will not appear equitable, if you look at it in it's entirety and balance out all the competing equities, then the award begins to look fair and equitable.​

​

 

[Scope out RJ's]

"Equity demands that the Northwest pilots’ expectations not be fully foiled by the merger. Fairness, however, requires some tempering of the potential impact power of the adjustment mechanism. It would be myopic for this Board to focus solely on the stand-alone attrition expectations of the NWA pilot group. We accept they may constitute a legitimate career expectation, but one must also consider other elements reasonably regarded as potentially dampening those expectations.

20 The Northwest fleet, for example is composed of numerous aircraft of questionable long-term utility."​

Richard I. Bloch, Dana Edward Eischen,Fredric R. Horowitz​

There were several equities that needed to be balanced. Delta had a disproportionately larger fleet of wide bodied and 757 aircraft, NWA had more attrition, NWA pilots will receive larger pay raises, DAL pilots will see more short term retirements, Delta had a growing fleet, NWA was looking at further contraction. Quite a bit to balance. If anyone focusses on just one equity, then the award will not appear equitable, if you look at it in it's entirety and balance out all the competing equities, then the award begins to look fair and equitable.


​

SHHHHHHHHH............
It goes agains all the NW's false assumptions! Remember, they got screwed.

 

[clippyrip]

The NWA guys are assuming age 60 retirements

Nope, the above mentioned was based on 65.

 

[clippyrip]

Yes, but all you can hold now is an engineer seat.

Nope, I can hold the A320. I am an engineer because I was born and raised in ANC. Plus, it pays better than a 757 FO.

PS
Normally I ignore your posts but I like proving you wrong. So you know, the FE position at NWA is the best kept secret. The job is fun and easy. Once the flaps come up I am deadheading. All I have to worry about is when to put my company paid for dinner in the oven. Excuse me, sometimes there are two free meals, then I have to time it so I arrive full when I get to the hotel. The guys I fly with are at the top of their career and happy. The trips are one leg, two at the most and the destinations are great. Many trips I bring the golf clubs and hit the links on my 50+hour layovers. Nice try with the disrespect but it's lost on me.

 

[nwaredtail]

You will probably retire more AIRPLANES than we will within the next 5 years though...

Bye Bye--General Lee

Key word for you is "probably". I'm taking about what DID happen.