Some Delta/NWA route swaps......

[GogglesPisano]

That is the million dollar question. JFK is JFK, and it is by far the hardest base to commute to. I am sure that on some level there will be an ER base in NYC. I would even guess that some of the new hires will still hold it. Albeit, not holding weekends off and three days to TLV!

Thanks, from one the 15% of us who drive.





Incidentqlly; ahy qre co,puter keyboqrds so different in Europe?

 

[metrodriver]

Looking at Delta's base closing history this is my prediction: PDX will close again, like Delta did in the past, flying will consolidate in SEA. MEM will close, too close to ATL. MSP will close, DTW is not far away and bigger. Timeline: 5 years.

Goggles: only in French speaking areas. Why? Don't know. Annoying as hell.

disclaimer: I'm neither NWA nor DAL. From the outside looking in.

 

[qxdash8]

PDX will close again, like Delta did in the past, flying will consolidate in SEA.

PDX will close again? First it would have to open again. PDX is not a current DL or NW base (at least not for pilots). The 330 flying that NW does out of PDX is probably done by SEA pilots.

 

[General Lee]

Looking at Delta's base closing history this is my prediction: PDX will close again, like Delta did in the past, flying will consolidate in SEA. MEM will close, too close to ATL. MSP will close, DTW is not far away and bigger. Timeline: 5 years.

Goggles: only in French speaking areas. Why? Don't know. Annoying as hell.

disclaimer: I'm neither NWA nor DAL. From the outside looking in.

Plenty of problems with your guesses. PDX is not a base, and won't be. SEA could be a base soon, and will be fed by Alaska Airlines (or merged in with DL in the long run). MEM may stick around since ATL is hard to expand, without getting more terminals quicker. MSP and DTW really aren't close, and ORD and MKE are in between. Both don't have a lot of LCC competition yet. (SWA is starting up in MSP, and has been in DTW for years, but not very large presence). MSP also has a deal with the locals to keep a certain amount of flights there a day, which cannot be broken unless we want to pay Millions of dollars.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[RedRum]

You will probably retire more AIRPLANES than we will within the next 5 years though...

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

Please define "YOU" in your statement.

You mean Delta Airlines will retire more aircraft? We are supposed to be the same right now, even if SOC hasn't happened. NWA no longer exists as far as planning and marketing goes. Former NWA people march to Delta orders now.

The sooner we all get on the same page the better. If we (Delta Airlines) park any mainline aircraft it is going to hurt EVERYBODY. I know you believe this to be true, so why are you still flaming us (former NWA pilots) You won.

 

[General Lee]

General,

Please define "YOU" in your statement.

You mean Delta Airlines will retire more aircraft? We are supposed to be the same right now, even if SOC hasn't happened. NWA no longer exists as far as planning and marketing goes. Former NWA people march to Delta orders now.

The sooner we all get on the same page the better. If we (Delta Airlines) park any mainline aircraft it is going to hurt EVERYBODY. I know you believe this to be true, so why are you still flaming us (former NWA pilots) You won.

Come on man, we ALL WON. And, you really won, you someday will fly with me, and I MAY do a walkaround for you, if it is over 50 degrees F....

What I was stating there was that more of the planes you brought to the table will probably be retired before a lot of the planes we brought. The 742s will probably be gone as soon as we find replacements for their NRT slots. The DC9s will start to go in 2011-2012 supposedly. That means more of your planes will leave before ours. Regardless, we should all have a fantastic time together, and I will buy the beers (only 3rd and 5th rounds, please). Relax a bit.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I don't think any of us won...but I do agree that we are all on the same team and parking of any airplanes without immediate replacements is hurting us.

Since you now work for the company, it's "Delta Air Lines." Two words., double breasted.

 

[RedRum]

NWA pilots will receive larger pay raises. ...

Quite a bit to balance. If anyone focusses on just one equity, then the award will not appear equitable, if you look at it in it's entirety and balance out all the competing equities, then the award begins to look fair and equitable.

I understand you are trying to rationalize your windfall. Try as you may it is never going to seem fair and equitable to a former Northwest Airlines pilot.

Why do you keep bringing up the raises we got? The arbitrators were not supposed to look at that aspect. It wasn't what they were chartered to do. They were supposed to come up with a fair and equitable list. Instead, they screwed over a lot of NWA pilots.

You guys think we are a piece of *&^& airline. Obviously you were successful in proving to the arbitrators that we were a crap outfit because you guys made out so well.

Sorry in advance if it sounds like sour grapes. This is a tough one to take if you are a former NWA pilot. Hopefully you guys will understand one day that there is simply no way to justify the drubbing we took. No right-minded pilot can justify it.

 

[General Lee]

I don't think any of us won...but I do agree that we are all on the same team and parking of any airplanes without immediate replacements is hurting us.

Since you now work for the company, it's "Delta Air Lines." Two words., double breasted.

You're right, none of us really "won." I think I did pretty well, but I expected to be around the same relative seniority, and I think I did fall about 1% point, which is fine with me.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[RedRum]

The DC9s will start to go in 2011-2012 supposedly.

Relax a bit.

Bye Bye--General Lee

SUPPOSEDLY is right. There is nothing in corporate communications and planning that indicates these airplanes are going away, PERIOD!

Where do you get this rock solid information. Again, your lawyers did a great job selling this one to the arbitrators. Its really too bad that you guys have to continually bash an airplane and its pilots like this. The only way WE are going to park DC9s is to have them replaced by a bunch of mother &^%$in 76 seat jets. Is that what you want? Heck I just read Colgan is part of our illustrious union now. Maybe we can get a flowback with them now. Sweet!

As far as lightening up goes, yeah, I need to. I admit it. You guys just think we are crap and its too bad I gotta deal with the egos the rest of my career. Also have to deal with Delta Air Lines pilots saying how lucky I am to be part of their organization.

BTW, are any of you guys aware that Delta is not honoring the contract with regard to the trip / duty rigs that were agreed up on in the JCBA? Apparently we aren't getting any support from DALPA and Delta. I hear a lot of talk from the higher ups saying they are going to do what they say, but sadly in this case it appears they are trying to B-Scale us on this aspect of the contract.

Do any of the Delta pilots feel we should be getting trip / duty rigs that were agreed upon in the JCBA?

I have called my reps here at NWA and looks like we are going to have to grieve it. Gotta love it!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I know it is foreign to you, but our leadership is very open with their future plans. Ask a question and for the most part they will tell you everything that is not under a NDA.
I have heard the CP's and our VP of Ops both say this in the crew lounge so, fact is that it is not something super double breasted secret!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I think that the issue with trip and duty regs is that maybe a lot of the trips were already built before DCC. Hopefully you will see improvement in the Feb. sked.

 

[PuffDriver]

I understand you are trying to rationalize your windfall. Try as you may it is never going to seem fair and equitable to a former Northwest Airlines pilot.

Why do you keep bringing up the raises we got? The arbitrators were not supposed to look at that aspect. It wasn't what they were chartered to do. They were supposed to come up with a fair and equitable list. Instead, they screwed over a lot of NWA pilots.

You guys think we are a piece of *&^& airline. Obviously you were successful in proving to the arbitrators that we were a crap outfit because you guys made out so well.

Sorry in advance if it sounds like sour grapes. This is a tough one to take if you are a former NWA pilot. Hopefully you guys will understand one day that there is simply no way to justify the drubbing we took. No right-minded pilot can justify it.

Sour grapes is fine. Mourning is expected. I'll let you have it without comment. You have no less pride in your airline than we have in ours. Although I have not seen anybody call your airline a piece of crap, I have seen numerous amounts of you refer to the "double breasted sky gods", there have been jumpseat denials from your pilots to ours--yes it is true and being looked at by jumpseat coordinators, and other less friendly comments.

I personally took a 2% hit, and do not catch my relative percentage until 2015. I have risen above it, and am moving on. I highly recommend that all of my future, FNWA f/os do the same.

I will say that I look forward to the mix of Delta union levelheadedness with NWA spiritedness. I think that we will do very nicely in the combined world.

Cheers, fellas. I look forward to it.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Mike Campbell "EVP of HR" Founding F&H Partner

I know it is foreign to you, but our leadership is very open with their future plans. Ask a question and for the most part they will tell you everything that is not under a NDA.
I have heard the CP's and our VP of Ops both say this in the crew lounge so, fact is that it is not something super double breasted secret!

Um...Any company that places Ford & Harrison in key positions will tell you whatever it takes to keep that carrot dangling in front of you, to accomplish their goals without resistance.
They are obviously highly successful in this instance, as recognized in the "divide & conquer 101" subliminal tactics that make the Former DL side delusionally think they are actually more "loved". :laugh:
Kool-Aid...yum.:smash:
Keep drinking and see how far you get on that hamster wheel in the long run.
Both sides need each other A LOT more thn they currently realize.

ACL-- a few months ago you were saying you were a DL new hire...more recently 10 years...which is it?

 

[DTW320]

Sour grapes is fine. Mourning is expected. I'll let you have it without comment. You have no less pride in your airline than we have in ours. Although I have not seen anybody call your airline a piece of crap, I have seen numerous amounts of you refer to the "double breasted sky gods", there have been jumpseat denials from your pilots to ours--yes it is true and being looked at by jumpseat coordinators, and other less friendly comments.

I personally took a 2% hit, and do not catch my relative percentage until 2015. I have risen above it, and am moving on. I highly recommend that all of my future, FNWA f/os do the same.

I will say that I look forward to the mix of Delta union levelheadedness with NWA spiritedness. I think that we will do very nicely in the combined world.

Cheers, fellas. I look forward to it.

Puff,


Actually, I mostly agree with you on this. If you haven't seen anyone call NWA a piece of crap you obviously have never read some of the local press in our hubs in the wintertime.


One of my best friends is our J/S chairman. I haven't heard that from him but I will be asking him about it. If it has happened it is wrong and needs to be dealt with firmly. FWIW, I have jumped on DAL a few times lately and have been treated exceptionally well every time. Thanks.


I gained 2% relative seniority, but in 5 years that is gone and in 10 years I will have lost 8% relative seniority. 8%....That = about 1000 numbers. That was one of the points of FNWA posters here a while back....what seems fair now looks a lot different in the future. DAL pilots will be doing some major sharing of the benefit of NWA attrition, and that's the main reason we FNWAs can't understand why anyone on your side could be unhappy about the SLI. Having said that, I agree with you, it is what it is, and have moved on. I think we are well positioned for all of our futures overall going forward....or at least almost as well as anyone can be in this industry.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Puff,


Actually, I mostly agree with you on this. If you haven't seen anyone call NWA a piece of crap you obviously have never read some of the local press in our hubs in the wintertime.


One of my best friends is our J/S chairman. I haven't heard that from him but I will be asking him about it. If it has happened it is wrong and needs to be dealt with firmly. FWIW, I have jumped on DAL a few times lately and have been treated exceptionally well every time. Thanks.


I gained 2% relative seniority, but in 5 years that is gone and in 10 years I will have lost 8% relative seniority. 8%....That = about 1000 numbers. That was one of the points of FNWA posters here a while back....what seems fair now looks a lot different in the future. DAL pilots will be doing some major sharing of the benefit of NWA attrition, and that's the main reason we FNWAs can't understand why anyone on your side could be unhappy about the SLI. Having said that, I agree with you, it is what it is, and have moved on. I think we are well positioned for all of our futures overall going forward....or at least almost as well as anyone can be in this industry.

DTW:
Nicely done!:beer:

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff,


Actually, I mostly agree with you on this. If you haven't seen anyone call NWA a piece of crap you obviously have never read some of the local press in our hubs in the wintertime.


One of my best friends is our J/S chairman. I haven't heard that from him but I will be asking him about it. If it has happened it is wrong and needs to be dealt with firmly. FWIW, I have jumped on DAL a few times lately and have been treated exceptionally well every time. Thanks.


I gained 2% relative seniority, but in 5 years that is gone and in 10 years I will have lost 8% relative seniority. 8%....That = about 1000 numbers. That was one of the points of FNWA posters here a while back....what seems fair now looks a lot different in the future. DAL pilots will be doing some major sharing of the benefit of NWA attrition, and that's the main reason we FNWAs can't understand why anyone on your side could be unhappy about the SLI. Having said that, I agree with you, it is what it is, and have moved on. I think we are well positioned for all of our futures overall going forward....or at least almost as well as anyone can be in this industry.

As you said, mostly agreed. Personally, I love MSP layovers. DTW, not so much. I would live in MN in a heartbeat. Can't talk the wife into it. I have also heard Ann Arbor is also great, but I can't even mention the D-word in the house lest I get banned.

As far as seniority, I completely get what you are saying. At the same time, you never, ever know what the future holds. They may very well change the age 65 rule to no limit in 3 years. Unlikely, true, but at the same time, I never thought that age 65 could be introduced stand alone, passed, and signed in 4 days. Unheard of. So that's one point to consider. Another is perhaps, just perhaps, the sting might be taken out just a bit with the pay rates, base choices, greater access to widebodies, and greater security, the security part being IMO. I realize that different things mean different things to different people. Hopefully, some of that takes some of the sting out. It would appear as well as if we will be larger internationally, meaning more jobs, so as to offset that percentage.

Anyway, I am semi-excited about the culture clash/morph. No doubt interesting times lay ahead, and hopefully the seniority gain/loss will be a non-event.

 

[ASA]

Just curious, could someone objectively state what both carriers brought to the merger?

From what I see, DAL brought:

Higher payrates
More wide-bodies and their higher pay
Probably the best-managed airline at the moment

NWA brought:

More retirements after approximately 10 years

I'm really serious. Please, any NWA guys, I would like to hear the argument that you brought more to the table. I'm listening with open ears and may have the wrong idea about this whole thing.

Doesn't it seem like a semi-junior NWA guy is pretty happy? He can jump off a narrow-body to fly international, getting not only the pay raise to bigger equipment, but also the higher pay from Delta.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Um...Any company that places Ford & Harrison in key positions will tell you whatever it takes to keep that carrot dangling in front of you, to accomplish their goals without resistance.
They are obviously highly successful in this instance, as recognized in the "divide & conquer 101" subliminal tactics that make the Former DL side delusionally think they are actually more "loved". :laugh:
Kool-Aid...yum.:smash:
Keep drinking and see how far you get on that hamster wheel in the long run.
Both sides need each other A LOT more thn they currently realize.

ACL-- a few months ago you were saying you were a DL new hire...more recently 10 years...which is it?

You need to reread where you think there is a disconnect in my longevity here. I think you are mixing my former job and current one. I was an 07 hire at DAL.

 

[nonstop]

Doesn't it seem like a semi-junior NWA guy is pretty happy? He can jump off a narrow-body to fly international, getting not only the pay raise to bigger equipment, but also the higher pay from Delta.

All but the most 150 junior NWA pilots could of held at least 757 FO premerger if they wished. Even the most junior NWA pilot could hold 747 SO (which pays more than 75/76 FO) premerger.

The raise averaged about 9% however monthly guarantee dropped about 7%, upgrade time to CA approximately doubled.

Hope that helps.