SLI. What's fair and equitable.

[GlorifiedCabbie]

What ever the result, Ricci created this mess , so any negative results fall on his lap.

 

[TexasChallenger]

.....

 

[dime line]

were about to find out

 

[Imissmypilot]

What ever the result, Ricci created this mess , so any negative results fall on his lap.

Great. The effort to offset the negativity away from the options side of the house begins. Why do I think we're about to see DOH figured into the solution?

While I do agree with you it's all ricci's fault, it's not helping my nerves right now. Also not helping I hear he's playing more seniority loa games with corporate wings. That guy just doesn't quit with his fok programs no matter how much it cost him. The vote was close but the union won it because of the transfers. Ricci's grand plan turned out to be his biggest mistake. I sure hope the union sent syphilis a fruit basket.

 

[el raton]

Great. The effort to offset the negativity away from the options side of the house begins. Why do I think we're about to see DOH figured into the solution?

While I do agree with you it's all ricci's fault, it's not helping my nerves right now. Also not helping I hear he's playing more seniority loa games with corporate wings. That guy just doesn't quit with his fok programs no matter how much it cost him. The vote was close but the union won it because of the transfers. Ricci's grand plan turned out to be his biggest mistake. I sure hope the union sent syphilis a fruit basket.

If this SLI favors doh, I will put my application in for the FoK program so I can recoup some seniority.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

el, have more respect for yourself and the profession. The only way to make this right is for all of the pilots that got shorted on the equipment side, is to compensate them with bypass pay. Otherwise I will be a no vote on the JCBA.

 

[el raton]

Just venting because I'm frustrated, Cabbie!

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

el, I here ya! I don't know if it's bad luck or just how this place operates, but this won't be the first time I got stuck with a short straw.

 

[doh]

I know it's difficult, but be patient. The list will be out very soon.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Frustrated as hell waiting. Why even make an announcement if it was just to say more waiting. Any idea on a time line?

Why is it Options seems to have a rough idea but Flex doesn't. Heard an Options crew told one of our crews their committee assured them doh was a factor and generally that means they "won". So much for solidarity.

My career expectation does not include any version of a list that puts me plus or minus 10% of my original percentage bracket. The silence and lack of assurance is deafening.

 

[Imissmypilot]

For what it's worth, bypass pay has got to be our number one expectation in negotiations or else slicky ricci will just try another friend of Kenn program the next go around. My career expectations also did not include getting jump frogged by guys who were hired 10 years after me. That's the DOH I care about.

Yes it just occurred to me I could be writing from the perspective of an options guy.

Blimy. Just get the f'ing list out already so I can decide who to be pissed with.

 

[el raton]

For what it's worth, bypass pay has got to be our number one expectation in negotiations or else slicky ricci will just try another friend of Kenn program the next go around. My career expectations also did not include getting jump frogged by guys who were hired 10 years after me. That's the DOH I care about.

Yes it just occurred to me I could be writing from the perspective of an options guy.

Blimy. Just get the f'ing list out already so I can decide who to be pissed with.

Do you think a arbitrator will feel the same way about bypass pay? When he's trying to be somewhat fair to both sides and he's going line by line through what's presented to him, he's no going to give a damn where we ended up on the new seniority list and bypass pay will be 86ed.

If in fact DOH was a factor then Flops won and Flex lost. We better learn to accept this whether we like it or not. However, I will become a worthless first officer, or more so than usual.

 

[jonjuan]

Do you think a arbitrator will feel the same way about bypass pay? When he's trying to be somewhat fair to both sides and he's going line by line through what's presented to him, he's no going to give a damn where we ended up on the new seniority list and bypass pay will be 86ed.

If in fact DOH was a factor then Flops won and Flex lost. We better learn to accept this whether we like it or not. However, I will become a worthless first officer, or more so than usual.

believe he was talking about bp pay during a contract negotiation and not sli. could be wrong tho. fwiw, bombardier stock was 72 cents last week so not so sure how healthy they really were all along. can't imagine recent gstream line jumpers not immediately being put back in place once list comes out.

 

[el raton]

believe he was talking about bp pay during a contract negotiation and not sli. could be wrong tho. fwiw, bombardier stock was 72 cents last week so not so sure how healthy they really were all along. can't imagine recent gstream line jumpers not immediately being put back in place once list comes out.

I was referring to contract negotiations. A vote is highly unlikely. Our contract will probably be determined in arbitration. Bypass pay probably won't be part of the new contract, though it would be nice for our sake.

 

[dime line]

Frustrated as hell waiting. Why even make an announcement if it was just to say more waiting. Any idea on a time line?

Why is it Options seems to have a rough idea but Flex doesn't. Heard an Options crew told one of our crews their committee assured them doh was a factor and generally that means they "won". So much for solidarity.

My career expectation does not include any version of a list that puts me plus or minus 10% of my original percentage bracket. The silence and lack of assurance is deafening.

Relax, we dont know any more than you do, and remember 3 FLEX guys agreed and signed the dotted line as well

 

[TexasChallenger]

.....

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Do you think a arbitrator will feel the same way about bypass pay? When he's trying to be somewhat fair to both sides and he's going line by line through what's presented to him, he's no going to give a damn where we ended up on the new seniority list and bypass pay will be 86ed.

If in fact DOH was a factor then Flops won and Flex lost. We better learn to accept this whether we like it or not. However, I will become a worthless first officer, or more so than usual.

el, the Flex pilots have more years of service, from what I was told, as compared to the senior Options pilots, so they should get credit for their service to the company. Now focus on the transfer pilots and DOH becomes a cloudy issue. Should their time on a PLOA count towards their time in service? I ran into a Flex pilot that thought most of the transfers should automatically get Captain slots ahead of the Flex FO's. Where is their sense of entitlement coming from?

 

[CL300Pilot]

GC, the last CA position at Options was 2001, the last CA at Flex was 2006 hire dates. I don't see where Flex is more senior than Options, unless you only consider the top 100 of Flexjet guys. Or am I reading your response incorrectly? Thanks.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Options pilots who chose to transfer and didn't recind when the union was voted in at flex should have to keep their flex seniority number, flex doh and flex years of service. If they chose to return to Options any time prior to the public announcement of the SLI then they should be allowed to choose.

There's a saying about having your cake and eating it. I do not believe we owe anything, anything at all, to those who specifically and selfishly chose to buck industry standards and screw their co-workers because Mr. Chicklit promised them a personal seat at the the kings table.

If the IBT does not want downright revolt they better hope that magic SLI list doesn't put Syphilis, Noe Nothing etc and crew anywhere other the very bottom. What a mess that will be. Maybe the majority of flex pilots didn't vote for the IBT but I can guarantee you with almost near certainly they universally have disdain for the majority of the more mouthy transfers.

Someone else said it and it's true it's all Ricci's mess. The transfers can sue him for future lost wages if they're pissed. I wouldn't even be opposed to the union providing them the legal assistance to recoup what they'll lose as a result of his ill advised grand plan. Something has to be done to keep him (or a future chairman) from pulling this ******************** with a new acquisition or what he's secretly setting up corporate wings to do.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

GC, the last CA position at Options was 2001, the last CA at Flex was 2006 hire dates. I don't see where Flex is more senior than Options, unless you only consider the top 100 of Flexjet guys. Or am I reading your response incorrectly? Thanks.

I was talking about the top of the list. Then again KR doesn't respect seniority anyway and has always wanted his chosen few to be in the best aircraft.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Options pilots who chose to transfer and didn't recind when the union was voted in at flex should have to keep their flex seniority number, flex doh and flex years of service. If they chose to return to Options any time prior to the public announcement of the SLI then they should be allowed to choose.

There's a saying about having your cake and eating it. I do not believe we owe anything, anything at all, to those who specifically and selfishly chose to buck industry standards and screw their co-workers because Mr. Chicklit promised them a personal seat at the the kings table.

If the IBT does not want downright revolt they better hope that magic SLI list doesn't put Syphilis, Noe Nothing etc and crew anywhere other the very bottom. What a mess that will be. Maybe the majority of flex pilots didn't vote for the IBT but I can guarantee you with almost near certainly they universally have disdain for the majority of the more mouthy transfers.

Someone else said it and it's true it's all Ricci's mess. The transfers can sue him for future lost wages if they're pissed. I wouldn't even be opposed to the union providing them the legal assistance to recoup what they'll lose as a result of his ill advised grand plan. Something has to be done to keep him (or a future chairman) from pulling this ******************** with a new acquisition or what he's secretly setting up corporate wings to do.

IMMP, this really sums up this mess started by Ricci. This whole mess falls right in his lap. His objective is to keep the infighting going between different groups. I hope the pilots can come together and secure an industry leading contract. Ricci gets the Union he deserves.

 

[Imissmypilot]

IMMP, this really sums up this mess started by Ricci. This whole mess falls right in his lap. His objective is to keep the infighting going between different groups. I hope the pilots can come together and secure an industry leading contract. Ricci gets the Union he deserves.

What so now I'm infighting and negative because I don't want to willingly roll over for the very same people who were willingly open to jump frogging me and hundreds of others in their seat grab.

No thank you. Pick a different sucker for your union kumbaya routine. It's a fractured pilot group because 99% of the list, me included, care only about their own personal position.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

What so now I'm infighting and negative because I don't want to willingly roll over for the very same people who were willingly open to jump frogging me and hundreds of others in their seat grab.

No thank you. Pick a different sucker for your union kumbaya routine. It's a fractured pilot group because 99% of the list, me included, care only about their own personal position.

Not at all, I don't expect anyone to roll over. I hope we don't lose sight of the fact that we need to work together to improve the working conditions(pay) here. You can bet the jump frogging pilots are pulling against you and me.

 

[jetwash]

I am still a little confused as to what will happen to the FO pilots that jumped to Flex?

Will they keep their seats in the Flex aircraft while having an options number or will they have to come back to an Options aircraft to get the better number?

If they keep the better of both worlds then Bypass pay in the next contract !!!

 

[Bjtdrvr]

Perhaps that is being negotiated in the fence negotiations hense the two different numbers. Otherwise who in their right mind would choose the Flex number? Kudos to the entire committee for a job well done. I am within 1.5 percent of my original slot. That has to be one of the most undesired committee positions! Again great job and thank you for your sacrifice of personal time off!

 

[Bjtdrvr]

Wait!!!? What about KR and RH prediction of strictly by date of hire!!!!!!??

 

[japhy]

I am still a little confused as to what will happen to the FO pilots that jumped to Flex?

Will they keep their seats in the Flex aircraft while having an options number or will they have to come back to an Options aircraft to get the better number?

If they keep the better of both worlds then Bypass pay in the next contract !!!

Looks like they will be able to keep their FO number and obviously their seat they are in now.

The list is officially out.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Looks like you need to read the notes again at the end of the list.

 

[Imissmypilot]

The way I read it the transfers have to pick by the JCBA effective date (so in reality a year to decide) which number they'll go with. For some the company will have to break some rules since they had a 2 year commitment. That should be interesting.

I got screwed but not as bad as DOH would have been. In my particular situation I have the majority (if not all) of the transfers ahead of me so my personal situation definitely depends on their decision.

With no flushes, the list pretty much assures me right seat for awhile with not much movement expected.

 

[jetwash]

Looks like you need to read the notes again at the end of the list.

Can you put it in simple terms, like you are explaining it to someone who just had a few drinks