SLI. What's fair and equitable.

[1folinepilot]

This SLI will be all about Precidence. It will define the method used for each subsequent merger of any future company Kenn aquires.

Flex and Flops need to go together by the DOH each employee held on the day of the vote at the company they are employed at. This is the only fair way to merge the lists because in the future when TMC or a company Kenn creates will have very junior pilots ending up senior to pilots who have been at Flex / Flops for 2 decades.

 

[el raton]

This SLI will be all about Precidence. It will define the method used for each subsequent merger of any future company Kenn aquires.

Flex and Flops need to go together by the DOH each employee held on the day of the vote at the company they are employed at. This is the only fair way to merge the lists because in the future when TMC or a company Kenn creates will have very junior pilots ending up senior to pilots who have been at Flex / Flops for 2 decades.

So Phil, you feel it's fair to bump a 10 year captain at Flexjet down to a first officer so you can trap your captains seat?


As far as a possible merge with TMC? Percentage SLI wouldn't hurt a single pilot at Onesky.

 

[Praetorian]

I've got no Idea if that really is Phil, but he was asked directly on yammer what his preference for SLI is and he responded with "percentage". So if that is him, he has evidently changed his mind.

He's hoping guys will get on here and pound their fists for DOH, because he wants to devide us. That's what he's all about.

 

[TexasChallenger]

So Phil, you feel it's fair to bump a 10 year captain at Flexjet down to a first officer so you can trap your captains seat?


As far as a possible merge with TMC? Percentage SLI wouldn't hurt a single pilot at Onesky.

"Fair and equitable" isn't the same in every scenario. However it's done this time doesn't mean it has to be done the same way the next time. Every merger is different making "fair and equitable" vary from merger to merger.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Anybody still listening to what he has to say? I would feel no remorse if he was the only one stuck at the bottom of the Flex seniority list.

 

[el raton]

Anybody still listening to what he has to say? I would feel no remorse if he was the only one stuck at the bottom of the Flex seniority list.

I have a better idea, allow training use the same standards on him that are used on Flexjet pilots i.e. follow the TRB's recommendations.

 

[slowtation capt]

Don't listen to Phil. Here's is what he is going to do. He is getting on here, and saying DOH is the only way to do it. Pretty soon he will start demanding it be DOH, and then when the SLI comes out, he will cry foul at the Union, start yelling at the Union, and crying about how it's not DOH and that the Union is trying to screw everyone, etc.......

Phil, we beat you down twice now. Give it up all ready. You got no support trying to start your in house union, and you got no support trying to fight the Union on this vote.

You have to give it up all ready. You have all ready lost all respect for all aspects of your flying abilities, and you personal abilities. You are a mess, and a disaster. Either join the damn Union and be part of it in order to make this place better for all, or just go away.

It's done and over, the Union is here to stay, now and forever.

You have lost!

 

[Club ORD FO]

How can to be Phil if the poster is advocating DOH based on which side of the fence you are flying on the day of the vote. That would mean all the transfers stay at the bottom

 

[TexasChallenger]

He wants to use his FLOPs DOH but stay at Flexjet.

 

[1folinepilot]

How can to be Phil if the poster is advocating DOH based on which side of the fence you are flying on the day of the vote. That would mean all the transfers stay at the bottom

Ah yes we have a winner! Someone who actually reads the posts and thinks before posting instead of just blindly jumping to conclusions like some of the vocal idiots on here.

Yes the only fair an equitable way to merge flex and flops is a simple date of hire at the company thet they were working on at Dec 15th 2015. There is no holding of two seniority numbers or side deals. A percentage merge of these two lists would be a gross injustice as both sides have pilots that are senior to pilots that were hired far earlier than they were. This is the only way to finally fix the seniority lists

All of the flops pilots will have the same dues responsibilities. All of the Rif pilots (friends of slinghoff's or FOS's) that had their dues refunded and then given a responsibility date far later at their reinstatement instead of the contract date like all of the other flops pilots will not be considered a MIG untill they are paid up in full from day one like everybody else. The Flex pilots have their responsibility date of 90 days from the Dec 15 vote. No side deals, no FOS's or FOK's side deals will be permitted or tolerated

This is the only chance the Union has to be fair And equitable in fixing this mess once and for all.

Do it right or be gone

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

"All of the flops pilots will have the same dues responsibilities. All of the Rif pilots (friends of slinghoff's or FOS's) that had their dues refunded and then given a responsibility date far later at their reinstatement instead of the contract date like all of the other flops pilots will not be considered a MIG untill they are paid up in full from day one like everybody else. The Flex pilots have their responsibility date of 90 days from the Dec 15 vote. No side deals, no FOS's or FOK's side deals will be permitted or tolerated."

I see you have nothing of substance to contribute to unifying the pilots group. Now you are going after the 70 RIF'd pilots. Although I was not one of them, I respect their sacrifice. You , on the other hand... still don't have much to offer.

 

[1folinepilot]

"

I see you have nothing of substance to contribute to unifying the pilots group. Now you are going after the 70 RIF'd pilots. Although I was not one of them, I respect their sacrifice. You , on the other hand... still don't have much to offer.

Their sacrafice? The majority of them got canned for disrupting operations, purposly disservicing owners, slandering the company and not doing their jobs. Their actions cost many to be laid off by owners leaving the company , and when they were reinstated they were made whole with all of their back pay and benefits while the rest of us were forced to pick up their slack and do extra work.

since you are one of the people that does not want to recognize the furlough time of the flops pilots then you should not allow the Rif time of the 70 to be recognized either as the furlough pilots sacraficed a far greater amount and were never made whole financially or given a special "FOS dues responsibility date" for their sacrafice.

You are the one who is dividing the pilot group with your back stab plan. A straight date of hire and an equal dues respinsibility date for each pilot group is the only fair and equitable way to merge the lists and move forward from the mess we have now.

 

[Imissmypilot]

So everybody knows it's Phil and yet, depending on the forum, he advocates different methods. You what kind of person does that? A pot stirrer.

So ask yourself, what does Phil have to gain from stirring the pot? Or more correctly what does Phil think he has to gain from stirring the pot?

You answer that question and you'll see he is someone who simply should not be listened to period, even if he's saying what you want to hear. Actually, especially if its what he wants you to hear. That's his game plan and he will use it to divide this pilot group and keep his usefulness to Farquaad for a bit longer.

Club ORD, remember this is the same guy who has been secretly bragging he has been promised a high management position if he can prove his usefulness. I believe he actually said he was promised Rick's job but I see that as somewhat unlikely even in the most insane of circumstances. Rick's demise is all but guaranteed now that he's been shut out of Club CGF. Phil is merely lining up his ducks. You see, it doesn't matter what seniority number he uses if he ascends to the ultimate FoK plan. That's the only reason he's suggesting it - divide and ride the dissension all the way to the top.

The very definition of fair and equitable is for you to come out in the new seniority list roughly where you were on the old one. Your career expectations have to be honored in this new company just the same as they were in the old one. That means percentage will have to play a role. Whatever percentage tier you belonged to on the old list should be the same percentage tier you end up in, give or take a few numbers or else it is not fair and equitable.

The guys with the most to lose in this situation is the middle Flex guys - those hired from about 2003 - 2008. DOH moves these mid tier people essentially back FO positions (although there is no flush so they are seat and pay protected) but what happens if the 45 gets phased out? No way that is fair and equitable in anyone's book.

By the way, don't underestimate the power of being able to define new SLI rules in the contract for any new acquisitions. Don't let Phil use scare tactics about a future merge to determine how we deal with the present one. Still, even then I would say career expectations must be honored if it is going to pass the fair and equitable test. I know it sucks to be a 12 year FO but that was going to continue to happen to you whether or not DAC ever purchased Flexjet.

SLI is not a new lottery ticket to be used to reward bottom of the list Options guys with a new found top of the list status. But Phil wants to plant the seed and stir the pot. It's a good strategy since the Options guys are bitter regarding their stagnation and furloughs. But it's not right - don't let him win by allowing him to stir the pot with this DOH nonsense.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

IMMP, This guy is suffering from Kool-Aid poisoning. There are so many lies in his post, I won't even respond to him. If he wants to label me a back stabber, I have to change his name to 1f'duplinepilot.

 

[1folinepilot]

IMMP, This guy is suffering from Kool-Aid poisoning. There are so many lies in his post, I won't even respond to him. If he wants to label me a back stabber, I have to change his name to 1f'duplinepilot.

You have no response because you know that i'm right and you have no argument otherwise

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Sorry but I'm not a psychiatrist and I cannot cure you of your myopia.

 

[Imissmypilot]

You have no response because you know that i'm right and you have no argument otherwise

Right Phil and that's why you refuse to respond to any post that points out what a pot stirring malcontent you are.

Career expectations of each pilot MUST be addressed as part of the fair and equitable standard. Yes, even with future acquisitions. If you have an issue with future acquisitions, deal with it in the contract but don't fear monger it now.

If you're a 10 year Options First Officer, it sucks but it is what it is. The fact remains if there had never been a merger you still would be stuck at he bottom of your seniority list.

How is some SLI lottery ticket created by a DOH SLI that rushes you to the top above Flexjet captains who had the career expectation of remaining a captain fair? It's not. Therefore it can't happen.

DOH is your ruse to stir the pot. And it will work (if people let it) especially among the Options group who are sick and tired of 10 plus years of stagnation. The problem is the concept of the ruse working makes you gleeful and points out what a true POS you are.

I have much sympathy for the Options guys. What they have been through under Ricci rule is truly the only reason I ever needed to support unionization. But I'm also not going to let my career get tossed in the toilet as a result of some perceived SLI righting of the wrongs. The righting of the wrongs must be addressed in negotiations with a new CBA, not at the SLI table. Fact is the CBA will raise the standard for the Options pilots and that is the way it should be.

One SHOULD remain in their tier (divided by whatever percentage blocks the committee determines) or else it does not meet reasonable career expectations and therefore is not fair and equitable. It's not my preference, it is just plainly what should happen now and with any future acquisition.

However, for you personally, you tossed your career expectations aside when you transferred and went to the bottom of the Flex list. In SLI that is where you (and any other transfer) should remain, unless you had your request to return to Options already recorded.

You refuse to answer because you know this is the fact and you can't use it to stir the pot.

CAREER EXPECTATIONS HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED AS PART OF SLI!

CAREER EXPECTATIONS HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED AS PART OF SLI!

CAREER EXPECTATIONS HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED AS PART OF SLI!

or else it is not fair and equitable! Your DOH ruse does not address career expectations.

 

[doh]

From the UA/CAL arbitration decision:

George Nicolau's four basic verities of ISL arbitration are as apt and vital today as they were nearly a quarter of a century ago: each case turns on its own facts; the objective is to make the integration fair and equitable; the proposals advanced by those in contest rarely meet that standard; and the end result, no matter how crafted, never commands universal acceptance.

Career expectations and longevity will definitely both be considered in this SLI. All y'all are getting waaaaaay ahead of yourselves. The committees haven't even met yet. You should send your opinion to your respective committee members! That is really the place for your input!

 

[dime line]

Their sacrafice? The majority of them got canned for disrupting operations, purposly disservicing owners, slandering the company and not doing their jobs. Their actions cost many to be laid off by owners leaving the company , and when they were reinstated they were made whole with all of their back pay and benefits while the rest of us were forced to pick up their slack and do extra work.

since you are one of the people that does not want to recognize the furlough time of the flops pilots then you should not allow the Rif time of the 70 to be recognized either as the furlough pilots sacraficed a far greater amount and were never made whole financially or given a special "FOS dues responsibility date" for their sacrafice.

You are the one who is dividing the pilot group with your back stab plan. A straight date of hire and an equal dues respinsibility date for each pilot group is the only fair and equitable way to merge the lists and move forward from the mess we have now.

Wow talk about f...k your buddy, I hope that I never fly with this guy.

 

[dime line]

SLI is not a new lottery ticket to be used to reward bottom of the list Options guys with a new found top of the list status. But Phil wants to plant the seed and stir the pot.

It's a good strategy since the Options guys are bitter regarding their stagnation and furloughs

. But it's not right - don't let him win by allowing him to stir the pot with this DOH nonsense.

I don't think this is a realistic statement, we are seasoned to the ricci SLI from 12 years ago, we don't want anybody to get screwed (except maybe the 80 over at Flex). Who is bitter, its life.