No, not TMC.... now it's TMC and XOjet as a package.
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
SLI. What's fair and equitable.
- Thread starter el raton
- Start date
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
No, not TMC.... now it's TMC and XOjet as a package.
993_Pilot
MIGS
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2008
- Posts
- 569
I wouldn't be so sure about that. It wouldn't surprise me if the puppetmaster KR is somehow pulling the strings in the background. Time will tell.
AftCG182
RIP Avantair
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2003
- Posts
- 507
It's going to be interesting to see where this new partnership takes us. Some good times ahead, maybe? Fingers crossed...
Imissmypilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Posts
- 536
Ummmmm.... better say don't worry yet.
If you don't see this as even more worrisome then you aren't thinking far enough into the future.
Buying TMC now doesn't help Kenn. They are already union. He needs another company to acquire them first and decertify. Then when this new non union shop is big enough, Kenn acquires them and gets another shot at ridding himself of the 1108 for good. I'm betting there's already a side handshake deal on the table if they can produce an un-unionized pilot group of 300 plus pilots.
We have 2-3 years guys. 2-3 years to get the best contract in the biz and shut down the threat. Let's not waste it on sli.
I'm with lucky and El raton (and a few options guys it appears) on sli - it should not be a get rich quick scheme / lottery scam for options pilots.
A zipper is very doable when you convert each pilot to a PERCENTAGE number. It floors me supposedly educated individuals do not understand this or what percentage sli means.
You convert each pilot in each group to a percentage number and then you go one by one until you hit a disparity, then maybe 2 for 1 for a few numbers until you get back on track with the numbers and continue one for one until the next hiccup. Rinse and repeat. Everyone ends up roughly where they started on the new list, at the very least still in their bracket/tier.
The only method that guarantees any arbitration is any hint of this DOH bull$hit including that proposed by AF as reasonable as he's trying to be. The only true fair and equitable solution is a zipper based on your converted percentage.
If you came into SLI at the top middle or bottom is how you should leave sli. Does it suck to be a 10-12 year FO still at the bottom at the end of it all - sure it does. But lets address that issue in negotiations where it belongs. Negotiations is your lottery ticket boys, not sli.
Don't be so short sighted with SLI we miss the boat and it takes us too long to get to the negotiating table. BTW for the record I've seen none of the supposed softening from flex leadership / ex poc people on the sli issue. What I've heard from them is the need to get through it quickly. There's a huge distinction there so stop spreading rumors that don't help and discourage unity.
Last edited:
GlorifiedCabbie
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2013
- Posts
- 1,220
Phil was your problem long before he darkened our list, and he still has to pass a type ride given by those evil doers at the training center before he gets his new jet to prove his incompetence flying.
AF is another good dude this process has corrupted. Any talk about DoH integration is bad for both groups and goes against the POC party line. Don't let this turn into a ALPA/USAPA nightmare.
AF is another good dude this process has corrupted. Any talk about DoH integration is bad for both groups and goes against the POC party line. Don't let this turn into a ALPA/USAPA nightmare.
Haven't been on this board in almost a year. Haven't read this thread. Find it ironically peculiar that the most vehement Union upposer started the thread. I'll tell you where we go from here rat. Get inline behind your brothers and stand united against the evil that is flight options management. End of story. Your either with us or against us. Welcome to the teamsters. Get used to it
You should go back a year or so and read what I posted during that time period. You'll see that I changed my tune. I changed it because of seniority. I was reassured by the IBT it would be fair and equitable.
Kenn will avail every opportunity in the future to rid himself or marginalized the teamsters. So if you staple me with DOH, I and ~200 pilots, and the 314 who voted "no" will join Kenn's efforts. No Union is better than being stapled.
GlorifiedCabbie
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2013
- Posts
- 1,220
el, it's not going to be DOH. You may think the union is bad, but you obviously never worked for Kenn without the threat of a union. Well I have, and seniority doesn't mean a thing to him. When KR ran the show without scrutiny, the number you held on the seniority list had nothing to do with your seat or your pay.
Cabbie, please don't get me wrong. I'm thrilled to have the union. I voted "yes", I stated here I would do I'm on board. SLI, however, if not done fairly will change my support. I guess you've heard that before.
So EL basically if the company or the pilots union don't make a decision that favors you personally you change teams. Let's make this easy for you. Go be a KR kiss A. That's the best bet for guys like you.. Best interest of Pilot group as a whole is the unions stance. Individual pilot all about me. Is what the management in this company favors. Your best bet is to buy a good pair of knee pads and start sucking. Just trying to help you out.
Would you happily or willingly accept being stapled? Wouldn't you look for other options as well?
slowtation capt
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2003
- Posts
- 445
No, and I think that is why the Union was voted in. KR's plan was to staple and than have no regard for your seniority #, and to provide all his boys with their G's.
I am having to give credit to this guys on the committee to have better sense than to staple anybody at any point in the seniority list.
GlorifiedCabbie
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2013
- Posts
- 1,220
Yes, they very well should be.
Absolutely. They have a Flexjet seniority Number and thats the Number that they should be assigned and the seat that the number holds should belong to them..But hey they got a free type so its not all bad.And the union leaders better fight for that. they can't afford to lose anymore support then they have somehow
It's a slippery slope to up and kick the G pilots out right away, and I believe the official union position is no flushes. I do agree any transfers (international included) should be given the option (no pun intended) to either go back to FO and keep that seniority number or stay and lose it for good. You put a fence on the international aircraft for some period (1, 3, 5 years, whatever). After that they open up for bid. The big question is: what date will we use for SLI? Vote close, single carrier finding, purchase? Will have a big impact considering all the movement in the last year or so.
Now there is the quote of the day
cougar12
Unite Brothers & Sisters
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2008
- Posts
- 136
If I am not mistaken, the L.O.A is an agreement between the pilot and the company. It has nothing to do with the union. The union only makes sure the L.O.A complies with the contract. I don't think there is a law suit anywhere. There could be one if a pilot had big enough pockets and applied for an L.O.A to go work for say DELTA or NJ and got denied by the company.
As for as SLI is concerned, 6 pilots will determine what it will be and D.C. will either give it a blessing or kick it back. Nothing the union or the company or your LOA says means a damn thing.
993_Pilot
MIGS
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2008
- Posts
- 569
Wrong. First of all, the L.O.A. wasn't "ratified" at all. If I am not mistaken, the company wanted two year L.O.A.'s but the contract stated that up to one year could be granted by the company and the union held them to it, because that is what the contract says. So what happens when the one year is up? Do they come back?... or do they stay at Flexjet and give up their Flight Options seniority number? What would be the incentive for the union to voluntarily allow the company to break the contract? I don't have the answers here, but you really need to look at this from every perspective, not just your own, or management will play us all like pawns. Heck, the very fact that the Gulfstreams are even on the Flexjet side is part of the whipsaw. FYI, Kenn Ricci announced we would be adding a Gulfstream program long before he announced the purchase of Flexjet, and even though we didn't know what the mid cabin replacement was for the C-X program, we knew it was coming, we just didn't know they would be offering incentives and migrating the mid-cabin FO customers to the Legacy 450/500's or Challenger 300/350's. He bought a lot of votes putting them on the Non-Union Flexjet side of the house and even more by allowing certain Flight Options pilots a way to circumvent seniority. This is the old divide and conquer strategy, and you can bet this will play out during fence negotiations as well. In fact, there is nothing in the current Flight Options fleet that is part of the "Go Forward" plan, except the Phenoms (which are being sold under the Flexjet brand) because Flight Options brand is being phased out. So now, after fences are complete, if the Flight Options pilots fly anything other than one of the dying fleets or a Phenom, then management will tell the Flexjet pilots that the union is forcing them to give away your flying opportunities. Conversely, if the union keeps rigid fences as they are now, then he will tell all the Flight Options pilots that the union is forcing him to deny them the opportunities in the "go-forward" fleets that they would have otherwise. It is a very difficult and precarious position to be in, because either way it ends up, KR will try to spin it as the union being our enemy. The same thing goes for SLI. No matter how fair the SLI committee tries to be, it is almost guaranteed that nobody will be happy except the person that ends up as #1. Management will try to spin that too. Divide and conquer is all it really is. What we ALL need to do is start thinking about getting past SLI and developing real solidarity. It shouldn't be Flexjet pilots against Flight Options pilots. For now, it should be the Onesky pilots against Onesky management, and until we all realize this, they will continue to whipsaw and play us against each other. If both groups keep thinking about nothing more than themselves and don't start think about us as one big group, then we are already doomed. However, if we can quit thinking selfishly and get some solidarity, then we can negotiate a good Joint CBA, put the negotiations and rhetoric behind us, and go out in to the market place and kick some a$$! Then we all benefit.
Last edited:
Imissmypilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Posts
- 536
GlorifiedCabbie
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2013
- Posts
- 1,220
The SLI committee must have their work cut out for them. For the list not to be put out by now can only mean there is a delicate balancing act going on. This mess has been created by Ricci, so he should take the blame for any unfavorable results. Given his track record, he will no doubt use the SLI committee as the fall guy.
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
