SLI. What's fair and equitable.

[doh]

Shanes is a diplomat...or at least something that begins with dip... Having said that, we are all replaceable. The people that will be attracted will be determined by the contract we sign. Lousy contract, people with lousy customer service skills will be all we can attract. Good people go where their talents are rewarded.

 

[luckydog]

Fine, a 1-to-1 zipper isn't practical since we aren't exactly the same size. There are powerful machines that can make easy work of this. At the end of the process all pilots will be in almost the same spot on the combined list. What kind of difference are we talking, 10 pilots, 50 pilots, don't be so secretive.

I'm really disappointed to see a FJ pilot advocating Date of Hire. I'll bet his position will put him well above any loss in seniority.

As career expectations go... a Flexjet guy gets hired in to a LR31 and sees the top seat in a CL60X. As time goes by he gets it, great for him. What about all the LR45 new hires? at no point did they ever have an expectation of being in a Phenom. And when did anyone hired at options in the last 10 years have any exception on being in a CL30?

The FJ pilots made a decision to join with FLOPs in a equal partnership, now we're finding out some pigs are more equal than others.

And for those keeping score, FJ voted in the union and now KR reinstates the FLOPs 401(k) match at our level. If the vote had gone the other way I'd bet the email we received would have been very different, maybe detailing his not so secret hope to wind Options down.

Let's all play nice and wait until we actually have a contract offer before tearing each other up.

 

[dime line]

And for those keeping score, FJ voted in the union and now KR reinstates the FLOPs 401(k) match at our level. If the vote had gone the other way I'd bet the email we received would have been very different, maybe detailing his not so secret hope to wind Options down.

This is our original match %, no change. I think your 401k at FLex was the one that was altered.

 

[dime line]

And for those keeping score, FJ voted in the union and now KR reinstates the FLOPs 401(k) match at our level. If the vote had gone the other way I'd bet the email we received would have been very different, maybe detailing his not so secret hope to wind Options down.

This is our original match %, no change. I think your 401k at FLex was the one that was altered. I think he will wind down FLOPS anyway

 

[TexasChallenger]

Fine, a 1-to-1 zipper isn't practical since we aren't exactly the same size. There are powerful machines that can make easy work of this. At the end of the process all pilots will be in almost the same spot on the combined list. What kind of difference are we talking, 10 pilots, 50 pilots, don't be so secretive.

I'm really disappointed to see a FJ pilot advocating Date of Hire. I'll bet his position will put him well above any loss in seniority.

If you're referring to me as in promoting DOH, then you should go back and reread my previous posts. There are only a handful of them so it won't take you long.

 

[luckydog]

If you're referring to me as in promoting DOH, then you should go back and reread my previous posts. There are only a handful of them so it won't take you long.

You aren't the one I'm talking about unless you're one of the guys from the VUH starting to spout some nonsense about percentage merge at the top that eventually becomes DoH just south of their seniority number.

It seems there's been a shake up on the FJ SLI committee, no explanation given. Add that to the new posters on FI with a definite bias about what is fair and equitable. That opinion being, "it's fair that my seniority increase at someone else's expense because I've been abused by KR longer than they have". This is getting ugly, early.

During the election process every POC member said absolutely NO F'ing way would integration be DoH. Some seem to have softened on that idea. My guess is they're in a hurry to get to the contract negotiations so they can take their shot at Kenn. Kind of pointless since he has decided to take his ball and go home.

The margin on this election wasn't anywhere near a mandate. The folks at the top should remember that.

What I am sure of is, I'm starting to regret my vote much sooner than I thought I would.

 

[luckydog]

This is our original match %, no change. I think your 401k at FLex was the one that was altered. I think he will wind down FLOPS anyway

The 401(k) wasn't really touched. We lost an additional contribution that replaced our pension plan. It was about 3%.

I'm not sure either operation will survive.

 

[el raton]

What I am sure of is, I'm starting to regret my vote much sooner than I thought I would.

Ditto! Before the vote I was told by a FPOC member that integration would be 1 to 1. Now I feel like I was lied to. No contract is worth being stapled. The IBT is losing my support.

 

[doh]

Have you contacted the committee directly? Or are you just drama queening out of control on your own? Seriously, your screwing yourselves into the ceiling based on some FI a-hat's comments? Get some facts kids, you'll sleep better at night.

 

[exagony]

Warlord 19 is surprisingly silent all of a sudden

 

[TexasChallenger]

Ditto! Before the vote I was told by a FPOC member that integration would be 1 to 1. Now I feel like I was lied to. No contract is worth being stapled. The IBT is losing my support.

Why would you listen to a POC member about integration? They had nothing to do with the integration committee or any of the methods being discussed.

 

[el raton]

Why would you listen to a POC member about integration? They had nothing to do with the integration committee or any of the methods being discussed.

Well, before the vote why wouldn't you listen to a POC member and at least consider what they're saying?

 

[Praetorian]

What I am sure of is, I'm starting to regret my vote much sooner than I thought I would.

Really? So all it takes for you to get disillusioned is for a management troll to post some BS about doh on here?

Better toughen up. This is what management does during collective barganing. They spread rumors designed to cause you to loose faith in the union's leadership.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. The misleading rhetoric is gonna get worse, between now and a CBA. You have to learn how to see through it. In this case it's easy to do, since Phil is the one spreading the doh rumor.

Remember it's your fellow pilots on the committee. I trust them to work this out.

 

[TexasChallenger]

Well, before the vote why wouldn't you listen to a POC member and at least consider what they're saying?

I voted "yes" and was a supporter early on. All I've done on here is to respond to comments that I know to be incorrect based on what I've learned over the course of time. I would seriously encourage all of you to contact the three guys on the committee. Even before and after the switch up recently, they've been extremely generous with their time to talk.

 

[doh]

But warlord hasn't called to talk. I almost feel like he doesn't like me...:laugh:

 

[realityman]

Really? So all it takes for you to get disillusioned is for a management troll to post some BS about doh on here?

Better toughen up. This is what management does during collective barganing. They spread rumors designed to cause you to loose faith in the union's leadership.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. The misleading rhetoric is gonna get worse, between now and a CBA. You have to learn how to see through it. In this case it's easy to do, since Phil is the one spreading the doh rumor.

Remember it's your fellow pilots on the committee. I trust them to work this out.

Ding ding ding!!

Game.....Set.....Match!

If you haven't verified something YOURSELF, not from FI or your pilot buddies or the grapevine, then it's rumor. And rumors are one of management's greatest weapons.

Contact your union leaders and committee heads directly for reliable info. Even if they can't answer a question directly (a good strategy for bargaining oftentimes isn't effective if you tell everyone what it is) they may be able to at least tell you what the answer isn't. "How will the seniority lists be merged?" is a fair question. "We're still working on it." may not be an entirely satisfying answer but it still is enough info to determine that anyone not directly involved with the process who says they "know" how it's going to be done, or they heard method xyz will be used, is full of crap.

A lot of you have no experience with this whole thing. I know it's hard, but patience is your best strategy for now. There is a process to this whole thing and it takes time. Voting the union in is a great first step! Now don't shoot yourselves in the foot and condemn them just two weeks after the vote because of "he said, she said".

Discussion of a topic is good and healthy for the union. Crapping all over each other is not. Have concerns? Reach out to your leadership and express them (professionally). Submit suggestions. Participate. Volunteer. Seek out facts, don't spread the rumors.

You folks will make it. Management thrives on division. They're going to encourage it. Don't fall for the whisper campaigns. Good luck!

 

[luckydog]

Thanks for all the unneeded advice.

If there we some communication from "the union" about what is going on, what the next steps are, who the players are, what the players are doing... rumors and such wouldn't get started.

The POC did great, we finally had a vote an won, now what? Who exactly is my union leadership? I can't lose faith when I don't know who I'm supposed to be supporting. We've been told over and over the UNION is us, so far KR has said more about what's going on the WE have. I haven't seen anything about nominations, committee openings, or votes. Let me know when I get to be part of us.

Please don't say I have to sign up to another board or Like some Facebook crap to get my information.... The union had all of our addresses during the drive, use them and communicate!

I'll try to remember that "toughen up" pearl of wisdom when things really get bad.

 

[doh]

You don't need to sign up for another board. Everything we do is on the vuh, same as it has always been since we started the organizing campaign. Yammer and FI are voluntary boards, but you don't need to be on them. Only the vuh.

 

[FracMonkey]

Thanks for all the unneeded advice.

If there we some communication from "the union" about what is going on, what the next steps are, who the players are, what the players are doing... rumors and such wouldn't get started.

The POC did great, we finally had a vote an won, now what? Who exactly is my union leadership? I can't lose faith when I don't know who I'm supposed to be supporting. We've been told over and over the UNION is us, so far KR has said more about what's going on the WE have. I haven't seen anything about nominations, committee openings, or votes. Let me know when I get to be part of us.

Please don't say I have to sign up to another board or Like some Facebook crap to get my information.... The union had all of our addresses during the drive, use them and communicate!

I'll try to remember that "toughen up" pearl of wisdom when things really get bad.

Presumably you've heard about the Virtual Union Hall or VUH. If not, here it is. That's where information to the membership is disseminated and lives. Yes, you have to sign up for another board, but that one will give you all of the information you need. It's obvious you haven't signed up because if you had, you would have the answers to every question you have asked here.

You now have the required information. It's up to you to help yourself.

"You can lead a horse to water, but the only way to get him to drink is to shove his head under and suck on the other end."

The Union's leadership will do a lot of unpalatable things on your behalf. I'm quite certain that's not one they'll consider.

 

[slowtation capt]

Thanks for all the unneeded advice.

If there we some communication from "the union" about what is going on, what the next steps are, who the players are, what the players are doing... rumors and such wouldn't get started.

The POC did great, we finally had a vote an won, now what? Who exactly is my union leadership? I can't lose faith when I don't know who I'm supposed to be supporting. We've been told over and over the UNION is us, so far KR has said more about what's going on the WE have. I haven't seen anything about nominations, committee openings, or votes. Let me know when I get to be part of us.

Please don't say I have to sign up to another board or Like some Facebook crap to get my information.... The union had all of our addresses during the drive, use them and communicate!

I'll try to remember that "toughen up" pearl of wisdom when things really get bad.

And it begins. Not signed up in the VUH, doesn't pay attention to anything except what's posted here on the almighty FI, and complains about no communication from the Union.