SLI. What's fair and equitable.

[shanes123]

Regardless of how this list was integrated is immaterial. This was a no win job never has been a successful integration never will be. Where this union failed miserably is letting these self serving pilots that stepped on all our heads have a choice. They made their choice bottom of FJ list and that's where they should have stayed. This Union really F UP this. A lot of union supporters feel the same. KR 1 Union 0

 

[luckydog]

I'm a Captain at Flex, but down around 80% on the new list assuming most of the transfers go back to Options which of course they will. So I could easily end up as a Phenom fo or even furlough fodder if this thing goes south. Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.

How can you possibly be happy about this list?

 

[Imissmypilot]

How can you possibly be happy about this list?

Don't think he is. I believe that part of his post was sarcastic.

 

[luckydog]

Don't think he is. I believe that part of his post was sarcastic.

I'm really a big fan of sarcasm, don't know how I missed it.

Thanks

 

[TexasChallenger]

Regardless of how this list was integrated is immaterial. This was a no win job never has been a successful integration never will be. Where this union failed miserably is letting these self serving pilots that stepped on all our heads have a choice. They made their choice bottom of FJ list and that's where they should have stayed. This Union really F UP this. A lot of union supporters feel the same. KR 1 Union 0

How do you know that they didn't try? Have you contacted any of the six members asked them that question? I have. You owe it to yourself to ask them before you pop off about something that you don't know about.

 

[luckydog]

Yep, shanes, the biggest problem with the list is the 80 Options pilots that you guys allowed to jump ship. Yep, that's the entire f' up with this system.

(Now that was sarcasm. Nailed it.)

 

[shanes123]

Texas. Try???? Really. There's no trying. They willingly went over there and accepted a FJ number. That's their number no trying to it.

Unlucky.. Better talk to a lot of other pilots that feel the same way. I could give a flying F where I ended up. But to reward those A kisser with a choice is a bigger slap in the face then Ricci has ever given us. I have always said we need a union here but this has turned many supporters against the union and they couldn't afford to lose a 1. KR will be moving towards a decertification vote very soon now. He is sitting home laughing his A off again disgusting what has happened

 

[shanes123]

One last thing. About the trying remark. That should have been a non negotiable..is this how our new contract is gonna read? We tried but couldnt get it.. Already got that contract now. So I guess bargaining is already over. Really thought we were gonna play hardball with this new leadership in place but looks like business as usual. Who got paid off on this one? Sickening. Gotta go puke

 

[TexasChallenger]

Notice the "I have" part of my comment. I suggest you do the same and you'll get your answer.

 

[slowtation capt]

Sooo... The FO pilots that interviewed for the large cabin and Red label positions, along with the Flex pilots for the same positions, out of seniority. Now with the new SLI only the FO pilots that took those positions will be punished but the FJ pilots that leap out of seniority will enjoy their seats. Sounds fair!! Funny No seats are shown on the SLI!

First of all. You left Flops on a ploa to go over to fj, jumping seniority numbers on both pilot groups. When you went to fj, you were given a seniority number at the bottom of the fj seniority list.

so what you are saying is, that you not only are pissed that you might have to use the bottom of the fj seniority number that you were given on ploa when you jumped over everybody but you wanted the sli committe to somewhere make up a whole new seniority number for the fj pilot as welll
how could the committe memembers make up a new number for the fj pilot. he didn't move companies, he stayed within fj and used his fj number to jump over fj seniority numbers. he has that live with allso

Yep... I can keep my seat and go to the bottom of the list as punishment but my partner can enjoy his seat next to me and keep his number as he jumped over 50 numbers for the seat. THANK YOU! Can I have another!

Maybe you just need another "day of class devoteed to perfecting the distinguished look. The steely stare and courageous persona that only a (scumbug, turncoat, seniority jumping( Gulstream pilot could have."

(I would have attached the picture and post but I was unable)

What a self serving rightous pos you are.

 

[Imissmypilot]

I took Texas' advice... technically before he gave it but its great advice and it's a large part of why I've backed down off my wall.

I think we all need to take a step back and realize (before we go spouting how bad the union screwed us) the union was obligated to protect the transfers seniority position at Options every bit as much as the seniority position of the furloughs. And they have on both counts. Because of the contract. In a way it should make us all really grateful they did the unpopular thing because it was the right thing.

It also goes to the JH firing. Sure, most of us didn't like what he did but he shouldn't have been fired for it, let alone the way he was fired. The union isn't supporting $100 dinners, they are supporting our rights not to be arbitrarily fired for non-defined guidelines, especially without due process and certainly not in an email.

Just like how they handled the citation air deal so this sli thing plays out with the transfers. It's unpopular but ethically correct. As pilots protected by the CBA, whether they are MIGS or not they get the protections. It's what is ethical. However, because of the high emotions that naturally come into play, management can take advantage and change history making ethics look like a screw job. Let's not let them do it again.

Regarding the furloughees, I feel your pain but your problem should be with the management that operated so poorly you were required to be furloughed, not the union who protected your right to come back. Longevity should have been considered because this union is now covers Flex pilots too. They can't pick and choose you just because you have been a part of it longer. They are ethically required to serve both groups equally now. What they did in sli was fair, equitable and legally correct considering all these factors.

By the way, Ricci's plan, already laid out on the table and activated, was to staple Options to the bottom and ignore seniority anyway. Remember that. In light of this fact, every single pilot of this new onesky list is a winner.

I really wish the union would explain this better. Instead as usual it's radio silence. But the fact is the fact everyone is pissed (except the top 33) should have us realizing how badly we need a union and how grateful we should be to finally have it.

Reminder I got screwed in sli too. I'm not toting the union banner for any selfish purpose. This situation shows me how badly we need a union we can know in advance what they will because they have consistently chosen the ethical if even unpopular path.

Wow. They really do sound like a bunch of neanderthal thugs, don't they?

 

[Imissmypilot]

Don't bother reading my rather long post. Instead go to the vuh and read MG's long post.

Much better, backed up with links and better explanations.

 

[SDCFI]

How can you possibly be happy about this list?

Not sure how you derived happiness from that but ok! I'm not happy at all, I just think given the circumstances the SLI is fair for both sides as a whole, which is what we are now. However I do like that this will (should anyway) put an end to KR's special pilot program and put the transfers back in their proper places. Or they're more than welcome to stay and warm the bottom of the list.

 

[shanes123]

So answer me this. These scumbags have had their seniority number protected that's all well and good. So does that mean they go to the plane they can hold? Or they gonna continue to sit in global and Gulfstreams? Cause if they are then again this is BS. They picked their seniority number when they went to FLEX. That's their number. You can't have two numbers. If that's the case I pick number 1 and 2. And I will let you know which one later on I want. These scumbags are getting their cake and eating it too. Their being rewarded for stepping on everyone else's head. It's WRONG!!!!! I feel this committee was in such a rush to get this list merged they really missed the target. A lot of people feel this way. I fear the final blow to the union didn't come from KR. It came from the unions own committee. Guess I better by a pair of knee pads and start sucking....G450 here I come

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I will never forget the names of the pilots that got special treatment. There is no system flush, but when the plane goes away, their seat goes away.

 

[Club ORD FO]

From what I understand the transfers are being given two options: keep options seniority number and return to options, or keep current Flexjet seat and use lower Flexjet seniority number. If they stay at flex they keep their seat as there is no system flush and nobody can be kicked out of their seat. But if that seat disappears they will go to whatever their seniority allows them to hold.

 

[TexasChallenger]

So answer me this. These scumbags have had their seniority number protected that's all well and good. So does that mean they go to the plane they can hold? Or they gonna continue to sit in global and Gulfstreams? Cause if they are then again this is BS. They picked their seniority number when they went to FLEX. That's their number. You can't have two numbers. If that's the case I pick number 1 and 2. And I will let you know which one later on I want. These scumbags are getting their cake and eating it too. Their being rewarded for stepping on everyone else's head. It's WRONG!!!!! I feel this committee was in such a rush to get this list merged they really missed the target. A lot of people feel this way. I fear the final blow to the union didn't come from KR. It came from the unions own committee. Guess I better by a pair of knee pads and start sucking....G450 here I come

Since we all know who you are from when TWA outted you awhile back, you have nothing to gripe about. You lost less than twice your number and less than 2% overall. I'd say you pretty much broke even.

 

[Imissmypilot]

From what I understand the transfers are being given two options: keep options seniority number and return to options, or keep current Flexjet seat and use lower Flexjet seniority number. If they stay at flex they keep their seat as there is no system flush and nobody can be kicked out of their seat. But if that seat disappears they will go to whatever their seniority allows them to hold.

Right but this is why bypass pay is such an important issue.

If a low seniority guy is getting Gulfstream pay, then everyone above him gets it too.

In a strange way, one of these, transfers staying on the Gulfstream as a captain might just become our new hero.

 

[shanes123]

Hey Texas. It's not about me and my seniority. Go back and read. I COULD CARE LESS WHERE I AM ON THE LIST. I was willing to accept anything I got. It's the special kids I have a problem with and the continued favoritism I actually thought with this new leadership it would stop. My fault for expecting any kind of fairness for all.

 

[TexasChallenger]

Hey Texas. It's not about me and my seniority. Go back and read. I COULD CARE LESS WHERE I AM ON THE LIST. I was willing to accept anything I got. It's the special kids I have a problem with and the continued favoritism I actually thought with this new leadership it would stop. My fault for expecting any kind of fairness for all.

You still don't get it. How are you so sure, since you haven't called your committee reps, that the transfers weren't dealt with to the best of their legal ability? And besides, if the transfers stay at Flexjet, they'll go below you and hopefully the new contract will boot them out of Gulfstreams and Globals. Again, I encourage you to call your committee reps.

 

[doh]

Hey Texas. It's not about me and my seniority. Go back and read. I COULD CARE LESS WHERE I AM ON THE LIST. I was willing to accept anything I got. It's the special kids I have a problem with and the continued favoritism I actually thought with this new leadership it would stop. My fault for expecting any kind of fairness for all.

Stop being an idiot. Call one of the SLI committee and ask. You are making yourself look more stupid by the minute.

 

[rajflyboy]

Fair and equitable?

Is that for the average pilot or just for the union/management butt kissing pilots?

 

[Imissmypilot]

Fair and equitable?

Is that for the average pilot or just for the union/management butt kissing pilots?

The transfers continue to lose longevity every month they stay at flex and don't recind their ploa. Uncle has them convinced the jcba will take years, the union says less than 1 year. Either way, these guys are kinda screwed (or at least Ricci is). I have a feeling when it all shakes down, all of us complaining are going to be pleasantly surprised how this benefits all of us regular folks.

Think of the deliciousness of this piece. If the global transfers choose to stay where they are they will be the ones on the chopping block when uncle threatens to furlough (and he will come closer to negotiatiating times). Will Kenn Ricci abandon his precious FoK group in the deal to screwing the union?

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

^ There it is. Dem transfers be havin' some worries. My 'o my, where will they go?

 

[luckydog]

Why all this discussion over the fate of 80 guys. There are over 600 on the list. Focus on the big picture.

What the big picture showed me is, every pilot above me on the list was hired at their respective company before me, and virtually every pilot below me was hired at their respective company after me.

You can call it "longevity" or anything else you want, but for about HALF the FJ pilots, this was a date-of-hire screwing. I'm sure there are 16 yes votes in the bottom half of the FJ list that are regretting their choice.

The SLI committee members should be ashamed of it instead of defending it as a proud accomplishment.

 

[Praetorian]

What the big picture showed me is, every pilot above me on the list was hired at their respective company before me, and virtually every pilot below me was hired at their respective company after me.

Isn't this ^^ the definition of "fair and eqitable". How would you have done it?

 

[luckydog]

Isn't this ^^ the definition of "fair and eqitable". How would you have done it?

If you think DoH is fair, then it is.

I would have gone by percentage so that the growth bumps of both companies shared the burden equally. Instead of putting 50% of the FJ at the bottom of the list.

I'm told I should be happy it wasn't date-of-hire, now you're saying it's fair. I really wish every one of you would have been saying this during the union drive. Then we would have know the score before we got to this point.

I'll put it another way:

This list puts me about 80 people away from being STAPLED to the end of list. And, most of the Options guys I'm senior to haven't been on the property for years.

Too bad there isn't a law that prevents this kind of abuse.

 

[doh]

Lucky, have you run any of the numbers? You should call the committee members.

 

[doh]

Starting at seniority 500 and below, every Flexjet pilot gains in relative placement. Everyone. So luckydog, if you are 80 out from the bottom, you gain in relative placement. What is your complaint again? And everyone above you has more total time on property than you. There is not one single guy with less time on property than you.

 

[luckydog]

Starting at seniority 500 and below, every Flexjet pilot gains in relative placement. Everyone. So luckydog, if you are 80 out from the bottom, you gain in relative placement. What is your complaint again? And everyone above you has more total time on property than you. There is not one single guy with less time on property than you.

I don't disagree with your conclusion about time on property. I disagree that it's a fair and equitable method of integration.

Pay attention, I'm not 80 from the bottom, there are about 80 Options guys below me + all the FJ that were already junior to me. Meaning I'm 80 guys from being stapled.

I did not gain a thing, I lost, pretty big actually. They used some clever Ricci math and managed to take our junior PICs and make them fo's for life. Explain how great the list is when 2004 Challenger PICs can't hold a PIC in any airplane.