SLI. What's fair and equitable.

[Dooker]

The way I read it the transfers have to pick by the JCBA effective date (so in reality a year to decide) which number they'll go with. For some the company will have to break some rules since they had a 2 year commitment. That should be interesting.

I got screwed but not as bad as DOH would have been. In my particular situation I have the majority (if not all) of the transfers ahead of me so my personal situation definitely depends on their decision.

With no flushes, the list pretty much assures me right seat for awhile with not much movement expected.

But wasn't there supposed to be a bunch of growth and a whole sh!tload of deliveries and weren't we gonna grab Netjets by the nutsack and make them rue the day they ever incorporated? Or did I just hallucinate all that? Because I could swear I distinctly remember being pretty excited for a week or two back in early 2014 ...

 

[doh]

But wasn't there supposed to be a bunch of growth and a whole sh!tload of deliveries and weren't we gonna grab Netjets by the nutsack and make them rue the day they ever incorporated? Or did I just hallucinate all that? Because I could swear I distinctly remember being pretty excited for a week or two back in early 2014 ...

Overactive hormones?

 

[doh]

Not one single comment from the WALB crowd on yammer...hmmmm...

 

[993_Pilot]

Can you put it in simple terms, like you are explaining it to someone who just had a few drinks

The way I read it, The pilots on a PLOA from flight Options will need to make a choice. Any time before the integrated list is implemented (JCBA) the PLOA/transfers can come back to Flight Options, and use their Flight Options number for the integration, or they can choose to stay at Flexjet and use their Flexjet number for the integration. No system flush, but they do have to make a choice in the next nine months.

 

[Imissmypilot]

But wasn't there supposed to be a bunch of growth and a whole sh!tload of deliveries and weren't we gonna grab Netjets by the nutsack and make them rue the day they ever incorporated? Or did I just hallucinate all that? Because I could swear I distinctly remember being pretty excited for a week or two back in early 2014 ...

That promise and a dollar will get you a whole lot of nothing. That's all on Uncle. He has proven in spades now 3 months in that all of his promises were smoke and mirrors. If he can figure out a way to get the red label bonus back, he will. Remember what we started dealing with out of the blue about a year ago?

I sincerely hope the quasi anti union crowd is realizing the error of a slim vote. The sli might not be exactly what I wanted but it's a lot better than Kenn was going to give me.

That being said, I still just want to stew about the transfers for a while.

 

[Club ORD FO]

But wasn't there supposed to be a bunch of growth and a whole sh!tload of deliveries and weren't we gonna grab Netjets by the nutsack and make them rue the day they ever incorporated? Or did I just hallucinate all that? Because I could swear I distinctly remember being pretty excited for a week or two back in early 2014 ...

There may be growth on the flex side but remember what happens at options matters too, and they are shutting down most fleets. So Flex will have to grow a lot to offset that.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Not one single comment from the WALB crowd on yammer...hmmmm...

You mean the only 33 guys who don't have a ********************ing thing to complain about?

Give it time, doh. They'll figure out something. They're probably pissed the teamsters released their seniority information to the merger committee. I demand answers.

 

[jetwash]

The way I read it, The pilots on a PLOA from flight Options will need to make a choice. Any time before the integrated list is implemented (JCBA) the PLOA/transfers can come back to Flight Options, and use their Flight Options number for the integration, or they can choose to stay at Flexjet and use their Flexjet number for the integration. No system flush, but they do have to make a choice in the next nine months.

Thank you

:beer:

 

[luckydog]

This is a DoH list hidden under the name longevity.

What happened to all that talk about fair and balanced? It was as big a crock of crap as any whooper the KR has ever told.

 

[jetwash]

This is a DoH list hidden under the name longevity.

What happened to all that talk about fair and balanced? It was as big a crock of crap as any whooper the KR has ever told.

Not really, If it was then the FLex 2007 DoH would not be ahead of the Flight Options 2002 DoH.

I too feel that I should have had a better number but I have to accept it.

 

[doh]

Hmmm, on a doh list Flexjet number 151 and below would have been the bottom of the list. Is that the case??? Well there you have it, it's not a doh list.

 

[shanes123]

The red label guys keep their number!!!!!! Unreal. Ricci gonna win this too. Why weren't they put in line with their FJ number they accepted. Think UNION just lost more support. If the vote for the union came after this list no doubt they would be off property

 

[luckydog]

Hmmm, on a doh list Flexjet number 151 and below would have been the bottom of the list. Is that the case??? Well there you have it, it's not a doh list.

Don't be so literal.

It's not a perfect DoH list sure by it sure as Hell isnt a relative integration in any way.

And explain why the FJ list was capped when the transfer guys came over? That's about 80 guys that adversely impact our percentages.


It's a DoH list. That isn't what anyone was told. It was the same as when KR says one thing and does another, a lie.

 

[luckydog]

Hmmm, on a doh list Flexjet number 151 and below would have been the bottom of the list. Is that the case??? Well there you have it, it's not a doh list.

So now that you mention it, where is #151 on the list?

Currently #151 would be in about the top 1/2 of the list (151/425 = 35%).
But since our group let them cut all the growth from the last 18 months, (why?) #151 would be right in the middle of the list (151/300).

Is #151 anywhere near #330 on the list? I'll, help you. NO he is not. His newly minted position on the list is about 430/660, that's down about 15%. But really it's about a 30% loss in seniority. WTF!

#151 is probably a junior CL300 captain now but his new position is FO. There are still FO guys on furlough senior to #151.

How is this fair? equitable?, consistent with career expectations? or at all relative in nature?

Examine the list paying attention to the DOH and longevity columns. For the FJ guys, the dates are the same. The Options guys have all kinds of dates. But you'll notice that for the vast majority of the list, the names are in DOH order.

This was not the story any POC member told when trying to get support for the union drive. I don't blame them. They probably feel sold out as well.

This list should have been sent swirling down the bowl the moment it saw the light of day and never been given the chance to stink up the place.

 

[luckydog]

There may be growth on the flex side but remember what happens at options matters too, and they are shutting down most fleets. So Flex will have to grow a lot to offset that.

This is the problem with this list. A great number of FJ captains don't have the seniority to keep their seat over time. Anyone have a guess on fleet growth for 2016?

Don't reassure us about no flush bid without explaining were all the displaced pilots will go when Options is no more. Or, where all the LJ captains will wind up as that fleet is mismanaged into oblivion.

I don't think it's something that will happen overnight but it's a near term issue. With the way the mgmt team is wasting money, it might be a very near term issue.

 

[Club ORD FO]

When I look at the list I think Flexjet came out ahead. I don't know what you did for your math but my relative seniority is within a couple percent. It would have been much much worse if this was DOH. Overall I think it was a good solution. How would you have done t different? If it was straight relative seniority the top 30 guys certainly would have complained. They did well.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

DOH would have helped me, but the results are what I have to live with. Bypass pay will lessen my pain. I hope the 9 months go fast.

 

[luckydog]

When I look at the list I think Flexjet came out ahead. I don't know what you did for your math but my relative seniority is within a couple percent. It would have been much much worse if this was DOH. Overall I think it was a good solution. How would you have done t different? If it was straight relative seniority the top 30 guys certainly would have complained. They did well.

Apparently their complaints have greater value than mine. The fact they aren't complaining says a lot about how equal the list is.

As the saying goes: "Some animals are more equal than others".

 

[doh]

So now that you mention it, where is #151 on the list?

Currently #151 would be in about the top 1/2 of the list (151/425 = 35%).
But since our group let them cut all the growth from the last 18 months, (why?) #151 would be right in the middle of the list (151/300).

Is #151 anywhere near #330 on the list? I'll, help you. NO he is not. His newly minted position on the list is about 430/660, that's down about 15%. But really it's about a 30% loss in seniority. WTF!

#151 is probably a junior CL300 captain now but his new position is FO. There are still FO guys on furlough senior to #151.

How is this fair? equitable?, consistent with career expectations? or at all relative in nature?

Examine the list paying attention to the DOH and longevity columns. For the FJ guys, the dates are the same. The Options guys have all kinds of dates. But you'll notice that for the vast majority of the list, the names are in DOH order.

This was not the story any POC member told when trying to get support for the union drive. I don't blame them. They probably feel sold out as well.

This list should have been sent swirling down the bowl the moment it saw the light of day and never been given the chance to stink up the place.

You've lost me with relative percentage and career expectations. Could you please show me where anyone wrote to you and promised you that? Because I never received the communication.

 

[luckydog]

SLI by DOH isn't going to happen. That was put out there by management in an effort to instill fear in the Flex FO"s to vote against the union. Time will tell if it is a lie, but the Options pilots have heard their false promises before.

The 1 time management said something with some truth to it and I didn't listen. Shame on me.

 

[luckydog]

You've lost me with relative percentage and career expectations. Could you please show me where anyone wrote to you and promised you that? Because I never received the communication.

If you want to be literal...

I said 'SPOKE to'. As in my conversations with BJ, VF, AP, AA, SM, and KR, just to name a few.

As I said, shame on me for believing people I trusted.

 

[SDCFI]

Let me see if I understand this correctly. It was mostly the IBT and a large faction of FO pilots that wanted this merger to happen. We can talk about KR and inevitability all day long, but if the rumor of the vote being heavily yes on the FO side and no on the FJ side is true, and most think it is, then you made your own beds. The biggest concern by far on our side was the possibility of a seniority hose job because of the disparity between the two groups. We were promised again and again that would not happen and it would be fair and equitable as a whole, not just to some. Well guess what, it is! And now some people have the gall to complain that FJ didn't get hosed after all?! Give me a freakin break. And I didn't exactly make out like a bandit either. I'm a Captain at Flex, but down around 80% on the new list assuming most of the transfers go back to Options which of course they will. So I could easily end up as a Phenom fo or even furlough fodder if this thing goes south. Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.

 

[doh]

If you want to be literal...

I said 'SPOKE to'. As in my conversations with BJ, VF, AP, AA, SM, and KR, just to name a few.

As I said, shame on me for believing people I trusted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doh View Post
Hmmm, on a doh list Flexjet number 151 and below would have been the bottom of the list. Is that the case??? Well there you have it, it's not a doh list.
Don't be so literal.

It's not a perfect DoH list sure by it sure as Hell isnt a relative integration in any way.

And explain why the FJ list was capped when the transfer guys came over? That's about 80 guys that adversely impact our percentages.


It's a DoH list. That isn't what anyone was told. It was the same as when KR says one thing and does another, a lie.

DOH results in Flexjet seniority number 151 through 299 being dead last on the list.
238 of 299 Flexjet pilots are within 5% of their relative position.
268 of 299 Flexjet pilots are within 10% of their relative position.
And you are telling me that this list is more DOH than relative position? No, just no.

 

[BE40Driver]

Sooo... The FO pilots that interviewed for the large cabin and Red label positions, along with the Flex pilots for the same positions, out of seniority. Now with the new SLI only the FO pilots that took those positions will be punished but the FJ pilots that leap out of seniority will enjoy their seats. Sounds fair!! Funny No seats are shown on the SLI!

 

[CL300Pilot]

BE, the scope on the Options CBA specifically states that there is to be no seat or system flush. So yes, they get to keep their seats. The transfer pilots can keep their seats as well but they go to the bottom of the FJ seniority list which is exactly what RH and all were saying the entire time. I hope this helps.

 

[BE40Driver]

Yep... I can keep my seat and go to the bottom of the list as punishment but my partner can enjoy his seat next to me and keep his number as he jumped over 50 numbers for the seat. THANK YOU! Can I have another!

 

[Club ORD FO]

Errr, but if you came over as a transfer you're at the bottom of the list now. So what changes if you stay in your seat?

 

[exagony]

Yep... I can keep my seat and go to the bottom of the list as punishment but my partner can enjoy his seat next to me and keep his number as he jumped over 50 numbers for the seat. THANK YOU! Can I have another!

You went to a different company - Flexjet - why do you think you deserve the best of both worlds? If you left and went to American, Delta, Southwest you would be at the bottom of the seniority list, so its the same at Flexjet, you left Options to go to FLexjet and hence have a low seniority number. You should consider yourself lucky that you are even given an opportunity to go back to Options and regain your seniority. How you think its fair that you jumped over pilots who have been at Flexjet for years with no thought to how that would effect them, but now whine that there are consequences to your actions.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Let me see if I understand this correctly. It was mostly the IBT and a large faction of FO pilots that wanted this merger to happen. We can talk about KR and inevitability all day long, but if the rumor of the vote being heavily yes on the FO side and no on the FJ side is true, and most think it is, then you made your own beds. The biggest concern by far on our side was the possibility of a seniority hose job because of the disparity between the two groups. We were promised again and again that would not happen and it would be fair and equitable as a whole, not just to some. Well guess what, it is! And now some people have the gall to complain that FJ didn't get hosed after all?! Give me a freakin break. And I didn't exactly make out like a bandit either. I'm a Captain at Flex, but down around 80% on the new list assuming most of the transfers go back to Options which of course they will. So I could easily end up as a Phenom fo or even furlough fodder if this thing goes south. Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.

In all fairness, you specifically complained many months ago about the poc telling you on yammer how much this was gonna suck if flexjer didn't unionize before the single carrier trigger was fired. I believe you specifically referred to it as a threat. Looks like they were right all along. Yet somehow I don't think this was the poetic justice they were looking for and doubt even more you'll take your ideas back.

Truth is we should have unionized flex a long long time ago and every single issue we are experiencing now is a result of letting everyone else make our decisions for us.

That being said, with a ********************ty SLI behind us, I am more pleased than ever we are unionized and know in the long run this is a better deal than Kenn Ricci would have given 75% of us over time. Maybe I'm being overly hopeful from the beers I've needed to get over my kick in the balls but I hope we can make this up with a better than Net jets mindset for the contract Kenn Ricci promised us was his vision in his documentary series.

I vote no one should walk out of negotiations with less than what they're making now regardless of seniority. That will calm a lot of bellies.

Am I happy? ******************** NO. But I wasn't happy the direction DAC was heading before the union came to town either. All in all, it's still a good thing we have IBT on the property.

Everyone needs to calm the ******************** down. Keep calm and OneSky on.

 

[dime line]

Yep... I can keep my seat and go to the bottom of the list as punishment but my partner can enjoy his seat next to me and keep his number as he jumped over 50 numbers for the seat. THANK YOU! Can I have another!

you should be at the bottom, you left to go there, I think you should thank your 6 coworkers for not putting you at the bottom.