SLI. What's fair and equitable.

[el raton]

Now that we're going to be one big happy family, let's discuss where we all are going to fit in in this big happy family.

 

[NachoMamma]

Now that we're going to be one big happy family, let's discuss where we all are going to fit in in this big happy family.

Have fun with that...

 

[gutshotdraw]

Have fun with that...

Airways had East vs. West.

I guess this is North vs. South?

 

[SDCFI]

Airways had East vs. West.

I guess this is North vs. South?

Cowboys and Indians? FTW!

 

[doh]

I would think any list with me as number one would be pretty sweet...just sayin'...:laugh:

 

[doh]

Okay, enough fun. The goal of sli is to do your absolute best to minimize the negative impact to each pilot's career. It is not possible to make things the same as 100% internal, organic growth. But it must be made as close to that as possible.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Now that we're going to be one big happy family, let's discuss where we all are going to fit in in this big happy family.

el, you know the only guy that's going to be happy is #1. I prefer to let the pilots come up with the solution as opposed to letting Lord Farquaad shuffle the deck then deal off of the bottom.

 

[el raton]

el, you know the only guy that's going to be happy is #1. I prefer to let the pilots come up with the solution as opposed to letting Lord Farquaad shuffle the deck then deal off of the bottom.

SLI by DOH means most of your first officers upgrade rather quickly after years of stagnating in the right seat. So, I think #1 will have a lot of company at his happy farm.

 

[Pervis]

MccCaskill-Bond Act of 2007 will ultimately be your guiding light, unless by some miracle you guys can come to an agreement.


Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs. Section 3 of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs established the fair and equitable standard for seniority integration, stating:

Insofar as the merger affects the seniority rights of the carriers' employees, provisions shall be made for the integration of seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner, including, where applicable, agreement through collective bargaining between the carriers and the representatives of the employees affected. In the event of failure to agree, the dispute may be submitted by either part for adjustment in accordance with section 13.

Allegheny-Mohawk, 59 C.A.B. at 45.

Section 13 mandated arbitration of disputes with employees that arose in this process or under any of the other provisions of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

SLI by DOH isn't going to happen. That was put out there by management in an effort to instill fear in the Flex FO"s to vote against the union. Time will tell if it is a lie, but the Options pilots have heard their false promises before.

 

[1folinepilot]

SLI by DOH is the only fair way to integrate the lists. The lists between Flex and Flops are not that significantly different but once Onesky / Dac starts adding newer startups like TMC and Wheels Up a percentage merge will seriously suck with 2 and 3 year guys ending up senior to an 18 year guy

DOH is the only fair and equitable way to go

 

[TexasChallenger]

SLI by DOH is the only fair way to integrate the lists. The lists between Flex and Flops are not that significantly different but once Onesky / Dac starts adding newer startups like TMC and Wheels Up a percentage merge will seriously suck with 2 and 3 year guys ending up senior to an 18 year guy

DOH is the only fair and equitable way to go

If that's how you feel, why didn't you post that on Yammer before the vote? In fact, where have you been since the vote? Not a peep after nearly twelve months of constant idiocy.

 

[el raton]

SLI by DOH is the only fair way to integrate the lists. The lists between Flex and Flops are not that significantly different but once Onesky / Dac starts adding newer startups like TMC and Wheels Up a percentage merge will seriously suck with 2 and 3 year guys ending up senior to an 18 year guy

DOH is the only fair and equitable way to go

If we integrate by DOH, how do we justify the losses that 180+ Flexjet pilots will have to endure? Losses such as captains eventually losing their seats and FOs sent further to the bottom of the list with no hope of and upgrade. These losses will be very significant.

 

[Imissmypilot]

SLI by DOH is the only fair way to integrate the lists. The lists between Flex and Flops are not that significantly different but once Onesky / Dac starts adding newer startups like TMC and Wheels Up a percentage merge will seriously suck with 2 and 3 year guys ending up senior to an 18 year guy

DOH is the only fair and equitable way to go

I'm willing to suffer a little but if it means you're forced to use your flexjet doh, Syphilis.

Until then, stfu. It's been nice not hearing from you. Don't tell me the pleasant streak is about to end.

Congrats on achieving the rare feat of being equally maligned and disliked by all sides of this debate. What are you going for now? Puppies and priests to hate you too?

 

[Imissmypilot]

Now that we're going to be one big happy family, let's discuss where we all are going to fit in in this big happy family.

I know I've seen it proposed somewhere before but I like the percentage swap. If you're top 1% or bottom 99% of either list (or any other number in between) it is roughly where you'll end up of the new list.

I know Options will be most opposed to this but it sounds by far the fairest solution to me. Had there not been a merger or if there are 100 more in the future, we all end up about where we started.

To me fair and equitable means exactly that fair and equitable. We all end up roughly where we started with no huge winners or losers. DOH comes no where near accomplishing that goal nor any other solution I've seen except the straight percentage swap.

 

[el raton]

SLI by DOH is the only fair way to integrate the lists. The lists between Flex and Flops are not that significantly different but once Onesky / Dac starts adding newer startups like TMC and Wheels Up a percentage merge will seriously suck with 2 and 3 year guys ending up senior to an 18 year guy

DOH is the only fair and equitable way to go

^^^^^

Is this Phil? If it is, there's 1001 reasons why you shouldn't be move beyond a first officer.

 

[TexasChallenger]

^^^^^

Is this Phil? If it is, there's 1001 reasons why you shouldn't be move beyond a first officer.

Yes, it's Phil. Amazing how he kept that to himself on Yammer all year. But anyone with an IQ north of 20 knew his, and all the other transfers, intentions from day one.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

The FOK club has always had pilots that have to compensate for their lack of professional aviation skills. They only fly with certain other pilots and take check rides with only certain check airmen. Why we had 314 pilots agree that they wanted to continue their careers under such a system is beyond me.

 

[Club ORD FO]

I've got no Idea if that really is Phil, but he was asked directly on yammer what his preference for SLI is and he responded with "percentage". So if that is him, he has evidently changed his mind.

 

[Helmsalee]

Guys, I know some of you will tell me to go away since I have no skin in this game. However, I have been through 2 SLIs in my career. Granted they were 121, but seniority is seniority.

If you can come to an agreement on your on (direct negotiation), you will be very unusual. That is best but very rare. Failing to agree, you will move to arbitration. The problem with arbitrators is that they are arbitrary and you have to accept their decision. In my experience, both sides will be mad at the arbitrator after the list is published. His (or her) problem is that both sides have career expectations. There is simply not enough good stuff available to meet all the expectations of both sides. The best he can hope for is that both sides will be equally mad. If that happens, he has done the best he can.

With my first SLI, I was royally pissed. So were the guys on the other side. As the years passed, I came to realize that what I thought was fair would have been unfair to the other side and vice versa. An 18 year fo will feel it is unfair that there are 6 year captains on the list senior to him. On the other hand, a pilot who has been a captain for 3-4 years would feel it is unfair for that fo who has never been a captain to bump him out of his seat.

I know it is hard (and impossible for some) to try to see the other side but you will have to work together whether you like it or not.

Good luck,

Helm

 

[1folinepilot]

This SLI will be all about Precidence. It will define the method used for each subsequent merger of any future company Kenn aquires.

Flex and Flops need to go together by the DOH each employee held on the day of the vote at the company they are employed at. This is the only fair way to merge the lists because in the future when TMC or a company Kenn creates will have very junior pilots ending up senior to pilots who have been at Flex / Flops for 2 decades.

 

[el raton]

This SLI will be all about Precidence. It will define the method used for each subsequent merger of any future company Kenn aquires.

Flex and Flops need to go together by the DOH each employee held on the day of the vote at the company they are employed at. This is the only fair way to merge the lists because in the future when TMC or a company Kenn creates will have very junior pilots ending up senior to pilots who have been at Flex / Flops for 2 decades.

So Phil, you feel it's fair to bump a 10 year captain at Flexjet down to a first officer so you can trap your captains seat?


As far as a possible merge with TMC? Percentage SLI wouldn't hurt a single pilot at Onesky.

 

[Praetorian]

I've got no Idea if that really is Phil, but he was asked directly on yammer what his preference for SLI is and he responded with "percentage". So if that is him, he has evidently changed his mind.

He's hoping guys will get on here and pound their fists for DOH, because he wants to devide us. That's what he's all about.

 

[TexasChallenger]

So Phil, you feel it's fair to bump a 10 year captain at Flexjet down to a first officer so you can trap your captains seat?


As far as a possible merge with TMC? Percentage SLI wouldn't hurt a single pilot at Onesky.

"Fair and equitable" isn't the same in every scenario. However it's done this time doesn't mean it has to be done the same way the next time. Every merger is different making "fair and equitable" vary from merger to merger.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Anybody still listening to what he has to say? I would feel no remorse if he was the only one stuck at the bottom of the Flex seniority list.

 

[el raton]

Anybody still listening to what he has to say? I would feel no remorse if he was the only one stuck at the bottom of the Flex seniority list.

I have a better idea, allow training use the same standards on him that are used on Flexjet pilots i.e. follow the TRB's recommendations.

 

[slowtation capt]

Don't listen to Phil. Here's is what he is going to do. He is getting on here, and saying DOH is the only way to do it. Pretty soon he will start demanding it be DOH, and then when the SLI comes out, he will cry foul at the Union, start yelling at the Union, and crying about how it's not DOH and that the Union is trying to screw everyone, etc.......

Phil, we beat you down twice now. Give it up all ready. You got no support trying to start your in house union, and you got no support trying to fight the Union on this vote.

You have to give it up all ready. You have all ready lost all respect for all aspects of your flying abilities, and you personal abilities. You are a mess, and a disaster. Either join the damn Union and be part of it in order to make this place better for all, or just go away.

It's done and over, the Union is here to stay, now and forever.

You have lost!

 

[Club ORD FO]

How can to be Phil if the poster is advocating DOH based on which side of the fence you are flying on the day of the vote. That would mean all the transfers stay at the bottom

 

[TexasChallenger]

He wants to use his FLOPs DOH but stay at Flexjet.

 

[1folinepilot]

How can to be Phil if the poster is advocating DOH based on which side of the fence you are flying on the day of the vote. That would mean all the transfers stay at the bottom

Ah yes we have a winner! Someone who actually reads the posts and thinks before posting instead of just blindly jumping to conclusions like some of the vocal idiots on here.

Yes the only fair an equitable way to merge flex and flops is a simple date of hire at the company thet they were working on at Dec 15th 2015. There is no holding of two seniority numbers or side deals. A percentage merge of these two lists would be a gross injustice as both sides have pilots that are senior to pilots that were hired far earlier than they were. This is the only way to finally fix the seniority lists

All of the flops pilots will have the same dues responsibilities. All of the Rif pilots (friends of slinghoff's or FOS's) that had their dues refunded and then given a responsibility date far later at their reinstatement instead of the contract date like all of the other flops pilots will not be considered a MIG untill they are paid up in full from day one like everybody else. The Flex pilots have their responsibility date of 90 days from the Dec 15 vote. No side deals, no FOS's or FOK's side deals will be permitted or tolerated

This is the only chance the Union has to be fair And equitable in fixing this mess once and for all.

Do it right or be gone