Sleepy NWA pilots?

[Poahi]

While I agree that passing out or just not paying attention doesn't qualify for anything related to good airmanship, I'd like to see you try to stall an airbus with all systems functioning normally.

That was the point. If it was true that they were asleep, they definitely mastered the skill of deception.

 

[Erlanger]

It's a conspiracy. Both pilots fell asleep, when awoken by the FA, they had 50 minutes to landing. CVR only records last 30. Capt and FO concoct the story about the heated discussion, knowing only the last 30 minutes would be heard. Both pilots agreeing to take it to the grave, knowing that if they were caught sleeping they would be terminated. A PA was made to the cabin within the 30 minute CVR recording to back up the story. They would land, ASAP it and continue flying to age 65.

My guess, someone will give into the pressure and tell the truth. Knowing that lying to Federal Investigators will send them to prison.

Not necessarily true. The NTSB mandated 3 or 4 years ago that all airplanes have 2 hour recorders in them. The have given the airlines a several year time frame to convert all the recorders to 2 hour. Usually companies are doing this when the planes go in for extended maintanence. Pilots would have no idea which planes have the old 30 min tapes or the 2 hour tapes.

 

[uba757]

General, I have to say that of all the things you have posted in flightinfo, your responses in this thread have been the most ridiculous ever. Airmanship is not only keeping the airplane right side up or going in a straight line, it is also about the decisions made while you are at the controls of the aircraft. So with your logic we can say the A/P showed great airmanship during the last 250 NM of this flight. uba757

 

[densoo]

I wonder if they could have miss-programmed the route? If they put in a jetway or destination beyond their intended destination and then assumed they were right they would have just kept going. Still doesn't explain not talking to anyone. If I haven't talked to ATC in 5 minutes I start wondering if I missed a frequency change. An hour is a long time to have silence.

 

[aussieflyboy]

I wonder if they could have miss-programmed the route? If they put in a jetway or destination beyond their intended destination and then assumed they were right they would have just kept going. Still doesn't explain not talking to anyone. If I haven't talked to ATC in 5 minutes I start wondering if I missed a frequency change. An hour is a long time to have silence.

Doesn't even come close to an adequate explanation... The radio silence plus their straight path for the last hour right overhead MSP to central Wisconsin make it glaringly obvious.

My only question is, in a court of law you need the proof to get the conviction. If the police have tampered with the crime scene, for example, or forget to read the guy his rights, then he gets off... no matter how obvious it is to everyone that he's guilty. I think that's what may happen to these pilots if they stick to their story and there's no smoking gun on the CVR.

But, are they really going to be better off admitting to the heated discussion leading to an hour of lost situational awareness than they would have been if they'd just admitted they were sleeping? That I don't know.

 

[Brasilia Pup]

Not necessarily true. The NTSB mandated 3 or 4 years ago that all airplanes have 2 hour recorders in them. The have given the airlines a several year time frame to convert all the recorders to 2 hour. Usually companies are doing this when the planes go in for extended maintanence. Pilots would have no idea which planes have the old 30 min tapes or the 2 hour tapes.

News is reporting that this particular a/c had the older 30-minutes-only CVR.

 

[SLUF4]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/24/airliner.fly.by/index.html

FO talking about the incident on video

 

[SFR]

Are there really idiots out there that think airline pilots are the BEST pilots in the world. Thats hilarious. They're responsible for all the airline crashes we've had over the years, 85% from pilot error.

You would think the unions would have fixed this fatigue issue long ago, but they can really care less either.

Actually, there are more corporate airframes lost per year than major airline airframes.

 

[Top Gum]

[FONT=&quot]There’s no way I’m letting my family fly on mainline anymore! [/FONT]

 

[embpic1]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/24/airliner.fly.by/index.html

FO talking about the incident on video

I saw that. Pretty stupid in my opinion. Tell the guy you can't talk about it and then close the door.

 

[General Lee]

General, I have to say that of all the things you have posted in flightinfo, your responses in this thread have been the most ridiculous ever. Airmanship is not only keeping the airplane right side up or going in a straight line, it is also about the decisions made while you are at the controls of the aircraft. So with your logic we can say the A/P showed great airmanship during the last 250 NM of this flight. uba757

Most ridiculous EVER? Come on now. I have had more ridiculous responses for sure. The NWA crew never lost control of their aircraft. What exactly happened above MSP is unclear, but what is clear is they kept their aircraft upright and flew it to the runway. The Colgan crew got into a situation that may have been recoverable but was not in the end. And, some autopilots can manipulate planes into unrecoverable situations, with the help of the pilot via the MCP. The 757/767 can stall using only V/S on the MCP, even with the AP on. And, the Dash-8-400 that Colgan used was a very advanced plane in it's own right. This wasn't an old analog plane, far from it. The PFD has altitude and airspeed tapes that probably showed more information available than most other planes out there. It was operator error.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[aussieflyboy]

Most ridiculous EVER? Come on now. I have had more ridiculous responses for sure. The NWA crew never lost control of their aircraft. What exactly happened above MSP is unclear, but what is clear is they kept their aircraft upright and flew it to the runway. The Colgan crew got into a situation that may have been recoverable but was not in the end. And, some autopilots can manipulate planes into unrecoverable situations, with the help of the pilot via the MCP. The 757/767 can stall using only V/S on the MCP, even with the AP on. And, the Dash-8-400 that Colgan used was a very advanced plane in it's own right. This wasn't an old analog plane, far from it. The PFD has altitude and airspeed tapes that probably showed more information available than most other planes out there. It was operator error.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General...

The only reason that these guys woke up 150nm past MSP and not over central Ontario with a fuel exhausted aircraft is that they were lucky. That and they probably got a "shouldn't we be there by now" call from the FA's. How can you say that they had their aircraft under control when they both were unconscious? Your argument doesn't make any sense.

 

[HOMER D POE]

1) they were sleeping
2) flew the extra 150 to CYA on the CVR

CASE CLOSED.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Here is a quote from General Lee:



There were many more quotes like this....You get the point...Now that Delta pilots are the one with the black eye, they've gone from offense to defense...The double standard continues with each post they make....

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling:
It must be real tough for you to be so jealous of mainline pilots.
Maybe since LJ is the man in the relationship, she could get hired!:laugh:

 

[maxblast72]

At least smartass passengers won't be asking FAs if the pilots have been drinking as they board the airplane anymore. Now smartass passengers will ask the FAs if the pilots are well rested, plan on overflying the destination by 150 miles, or plan on landing on a taxiway.

 

[Dubya]

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling:
It must be real tough for you to be so jealous of mainline pilots.
Maybe since LJ is the man in the relationship, she could get hired!:laugh:

"Delta 60 Atlanta Tower, cleared to land taxiway Echo."

 

[HomerJ]

Now I know why the f/a call buzzer is so loud on the bus...the french think of everything don't they?

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

We know nothing yet (why they overflew), except they ********************ed up. And no matter why or what excuse they give it won't justify it. These guys have forever been outed and will live with this for the rest of thier lives. There will be a procedure to ensure we don't fly beyond the airport and we (Delta pilots) will come up with a nickname using thier names. The last week shows anyone can make mistakes, even high timed guys. Everyone needs to be careful.

 

[satpak77]

why is the rocket scientist FO giving media statements? Wouldnt ALPA Legal speed dial him and tell him to shut up?

 

[WayBack]

Wouldn't this be a Delta crew since the merger? Or can't Mother Delta accept the fact that they had two crews mess up in one week? Maybe they can inform the public that this crew was a NWA trained crew, and never met the standards of Mother Delta to begin with.
Where is Acarpe reminding us that Delta Pilots are the Supreme Being?