Sleepy NWA pilots?

[General Lee]

General, I have to say that of all the things you have posted in flightinfo, your responses in this thread have been the most ridiculous ever. Airmanship is not only keeping the airplane right side up or going in a straight line, it is also about the decisions made while you are at the controls of the aircraft. So with your logic we can say the A/P showed great airmanship during the last 250 NM of this flight. uba757

Most ridiculous EVER? Come on now. I have had more ridiculous responses for sure. The NWA crew never lost control of their aircraft. What exactly happened above MSP is unclear, but what is clear is they kept their aircraft upright and flew it to the runway. The Colgan crew got into a situation that may have been recoverable but was not in the end. And, some autopilots can manipulate planes into unrecoverable situations, with the help of the pilot via the MCP. The 757/767 can stall using only V/S on the MCP, even with the AP on. And, the Dash-8-400 that Colgan used was a very advanced plane in it's own right. This wasn't an old analog plane, far from it. The PFD has altitude and airspeed tapes that probably showed more information available than most other planes out there. It was operator error.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[aussieflyboy]

Most ridiculous EVER? Come on now. I have had more ridiculous responses for sure. The NWA crew never lost control of their aircraft. What exactly happened above MSP is unclear, but what is clear is they kept their aircraft upright and flew it to the runway. The Colgan crew got into a situation that may have been recoverable but was not in the end. And, some autopilots can manipulate planes into unrecoverable situations, with the help of the pilot via the MCP. The 757/767 can stall using only V/S on the MCP, even with the AP on. And, the Dash-8-400 that Colgan used was a very advanced plane in it's own right. This wasn't an old analog plane, far from it. The PFD has altitude and airspeed tapes that probably showed more information available than most other planes out there. It was operator error.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General...

The only reason that these guys woke up 150nm past MSP and not over central Ontario with a fuel exhausted aircraft is that they were lucky. That and they probably got a "shouldn't we be there by now" call from the FA's. How can you say that they had their aircraft under control when they both were unconscious? Your argument doesn't make any sense.

 

[HOMER D POE]

1) they were sleeping
2) flew the extra 150 to CYA on the CVR

CASE CLOSED.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Here is a quote from General Lee:



There were many more quotes like this....You get the point...Now that Delta pilots are the one with the black eye, they've gone from offense to defense...The double standard continues with each post they make....

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling:
It must be real tough for you to be so jealous of mainline pilots.
Maybe since LJ is the man in the relationship, she could get hired!:laugh:

 

[maxblast72]

At least smartass passengers won't be asking FAs if the pilots have been drinking as they board the airplane anymore. Now smartass passengers will ask the FAs if the pilots are well rested, plan on overflying the destination by 150 miles, or plan on landing on a taxiway.

 

[Dubya]

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling:
It must be real tough for you to be so jealous of mainline pilots.
Maybe since LJ is the man in the relationship, she could get hired!:laugh:

"Delta 60 Atlanta Tower, cleared to land taxiway Echo."

 

[HomerJ]

Now I know why the f/a call buzzer is so loud on the bus...the french think of everything don't they?

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

We know nothing yet (why they overflew), except they ********************ed up. And no matter why or what excuse they give it won't justify it. These guys have forever been outed and will live with this for the rest of thier lives. There will be a procedure to ensure we don't fly beyond the airport and we (Delta pilots) will come up with a nickname using thier names. The last week shows anyone can make mistakes, even high timed guys. Everyone needs to be careful.

 

[satpak77]

why is the rocket scientist FO giving media statements? Wouldnt ALPA Legal speed dial him and tell him to shut up?

 

[WayBack]

Wouldn't this be a Delta crew since the merger? Or can't Mother Delta accept the fact that they had two crews mess up in one week? Maybe they can inform the public that this crew was a NWA trained crew, and never met the standards of Mother Delta to begin with.
Where is Acarpe reminding us that Delta Pilots are the Supreme Being?

 

[CoolSidePillow]

This one will be very interesting. Everyone has closed their eyes for 15 mins or so. It actually helps. I have done it and so have guys I fly with. When I am PF I just take the radios when the other guy seems out. It actually makes me feel like solo flying and I get more alert. Odd time of day for both guys to be out cold though. Coming from the west coast it sounds like it was their first leg and maybe only leg of day. Also, the time of day is odd to be sleeping. Even with decent sleep, at certain times of the day you feel a bit groggy. Getting up at 430am with decent rest usually causes that tired feeling around 9 or 10. Then there is the late afternoon fatigue if you were up early with less sleep. Usually, a quick 10 or 15 with just eyes closed helps. As far as the "discussion" goes, everyone misses a call or two when talking. An hour? That is a tough one. Even if you were screaming at each other you still do it with ears and mouth. The eyes still work and those Nav displays arent easy to miss. You have top of descent cues and everything. Plus, I think most of us have the FMS set to a page that shows progress or some other screen that gives time of arrival or distance to go. That is how I judge when to get ATIS or gate info. The answers will come but for conversation and speculation talks I think they were out. It is not the first time that this has happened. Either way I think they will be cooked. With all the congressional stuff happening they will have to be made examples of. After the ATL taxi landing I think DAL will need to distance themselves as much as possible. I do not think airline or regs play into this one.

 

[GogglesPisano]

PF: "130 miles from destination."
PM: "Checks"

 

[ultrarunner]

Did these guys fly 187 out of MSP that day and were doing the turn, or did they originate that morning in SAN?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Did these guys fly 187 out of MSP that day and were doing the turn, or did they originate that morning in SAN?

They one legged it down the day before, 19 hour layover, and 188 was their first flight that day.

 

[PreContact]

Does the Bus have a crew alert warning system like the 757/767?