Skywest talking pilot pay raise

[Rekks Inbound]

Not according to several friends who were at Skywest at the time. They said the raises came about 6 months later. But of course I don't work there, so my knowledge is addmittedly heresay.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[007]

to negotiate a high enough wage so we can bankrupt the airline!!! just like alpa did with delta, united... well you know- all the bankrupt guys..

I guess in your world they all went bankrupt before 9/11. But I am sure that was ALPA's fault too.

 

[utahpilot]

Do what ever you guys want as a pilot group, but understand that you are looked down upon by a large percentage in this industry because you all ride on the coattails of the hard work and sacrafice of the union carriers that you yourselves put down.

Peace.

Rekks

I'm told by newhires that their newhire classes are made up of anywhere between 75-95% former 121 folks, most of them former ALPA.

Pinnacle, Comair, Horizon, Mesa, Mesaba-you name it they continue to come here.

If we are so looked down upon, why do people keep coming here? I was at AWAC prior to SkyWest, and I can tell you that the grass is much greener over here. I make more $, our future looks better, and folks are happier here as a whole.

 

[Hootie9750]

I'm told by newhires that their newhire classes are made up of anywhere between 75-95% former 121 folks, most of them former ALPA.

quote]

That number seems really high. At my interview about 75-85% of the interviewees were rj drooling cfi's.

I do agree though in that all my buddies at other regional are getting bent over while ALPA watches.

 

[Ponchus pilot]

we arent interested in reality we want negotiationg strength!!!! so we can send a dude named rocco or tony over and twist an arm or two in order to negotiate a high enough wage so we can bankrupt the airline!!! just like alpa did with delta, united... well you know- all the bankrupt guys..

dude you are clueless- we want our company to be successful, we want a better pay situation. alpa will not provide either- do you not get that

do agree though in that all my buddies at other regional are getting bent over while ALPA watches

you guys have made the above statements and I'm clueless?
You dont even know how a union works or ALPA for that matter because you probably have no interest in knowing the truth. You would rather garggle management BS without thinking or researching for yourselves.

I will try to explain how ALPA works one more time for thoses who would like to listen with an open mind.
1) ALPA is not a peron and its not a persons name!!
2) ALPA stands for Airline pilots association.
3) ALPA exists on two levels. ALPA national and youe local MEC.
4) ALPA national is there for admnistration and lobby, etc..
5) You local MEC is made up of your elected officials.
6) Your pilot group will elect pilots from your company to represent you.
7) ALPA national will not tell you what to aks for in your contract, if you want to fly the 90 seater for $20 an hour and you vote on it, thats your Choice (although the president has to sign off on it).
8) each pilot group will only negotiate what it can get, if your comapany is in Bk you will not be able to get $120 hr. that has nothing to do with ALPA.
9) When you negotiate concessions you usually ask for stuff in return in the future.
10) ALPA has not bankrupted a single airline as they have to power to file for a BK, management does. I do not believe that any pilot group won't negotiate with management if they want to keep their jobs.
11) Your union dues are split into different funds. The majority stays withing your own MEC and a small part goes to national for admin and lobby, etc..

Dont come here without any knowledge of the inner workings of a union and spred lies. What joe blow did at another regional and how he might have been treated has nothing to do with ALPA. Those pilots would have been treated even worse without representation. I do not think that many guys leave an airline because of ALPA. they leave because of personal reasons that might be pay, bases, advancement oppotunity, etc.... and the fact that they might be better at Skywest in acomparisson to their old company has nothing to do with ALPA either. Bottom line is that you the pilot is ALPA, if you are unhappy take look in the mirror.

 

[XPOO]

Wow, it seems to me we already have compitent people already doing that here at SkyWest, and for free. Thanks for shedding light on something that sounded like we couldn't live without it before. I'm sure glad we didn't have that vote before you came along and straightened us out. Whew...dodged the bullet there, huh guys?

 

[Checklist]

You putz and biatches, listen up.....

The only, and i repeat ONLY, reason that your management is talking to you about a raise is to get the newbies to think that management cares. Skywest is supposedly hiring alot of new guys and guys are there and happy to just be in a snj (shiny new jet).

If management really cared for you guys, they would have made a deal awhile ago and not, as stated earlier, when your union drive started.

Repeat after me, management will disappear when your union drive fails. As a newbie will say "I am just glad to be here."

peace and QX wants a raise also.

Too bad 80-90% of the new hires are coming from other 121 carriers. In my opinion you should open your ears and listen to what these guys with a view from the other side have to say.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

9) When you negotiate concessions you usually ask for stuff in return in the future.

I've found that's not always the case. Sometimes it's just a concession here and a concession there with no strings attached.

Oh wait a minute. You used the word "negotiate."
By definition if your reps are giving concessions with nothing in return that's not really negotiating, is it?

 

[Ponchus pilot]

Wow, it seems to me we already have compitent people already doing that here at SkyWest, and for free. Thanks for shedding light on something that sounded like we couldn't live without it before. I'm sure glad we didn't have that vote before you came along and straightened us out. Whew...dodged the bullet there, huh guys?

Your assumption is wrong. I agree that you have competent pilots working on your behalf but you do not have a contract. I am also sure you knew all of that, however you you and others like you still distort the facts and when you can't contribute to anything you come up with a rebuttle that is without substance. But then again maybe you have something to lose if the vote goes through. You know the playing field would be more even with a union on board.

 

[Ponchus pilot]

I've found that's not always the case. Sometimes it's just a concession here and a concession there with no strings attached.

Oh wait a minute. You used the word "negotiate."
By definition if your reps are giving concessions with nothing in return that's not really negotiating, is it?

Yes, that might be true SOMETIMES. And you are wrong on the negotiation as still your reps have to approve of the concession and you pilot group has to vote on it. If the majority votes then so be it, thats democracy. on the other hand you can go without a contract and have management do as they wish without consulting you. Now that's more like a dictorship. I guess most prefer the democracy. Its always better to have a contract vs. no contract, ALPA or no ALPA.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Ponchus,

Trying to give a 'fair and balanced' education to these guys is like asking a muslim extremist to understand that Americans are not his enemy, of talking sense into a moonie, jesus freak, or any other extreme fundamentalist, close-minded fool. I know we have to keep trying, but boy does it get exasperating at times.

Your (this is to the kool-aid drinking fools) 75-80% prior 121 guys most likely were :

a-furloughed(something ALPA has no control over, but ALPA policy at least gives them recall rights).

b-Other regional guys who were looking for the fast upgrade (again, not something ALPA controls)

c-Other regional guys looking for an easier/no commute (one more time, these points are something your MANAGEMENT controls, not you or ALPA)

Things ALPA DOES do for you:

a-Gives financial aid and other expertise to help the local group negotiate a LEGALLY BINDING contract.

b-Gives inancial support for when MANAGEMENT forces your group to STRIKE for a fair contract.

c-Provides a buffer between MANAGEMENT and the Pilot in the case of potential disciplinary issues.

d-Provides legal and medical assistance when the affected member needs it, at little or no cost.

Think of it this way. How much do you spend on insurance every year? If nothing happens, you never need it. But if something does happen, boy aren't you glad you had it. And by the way, for those of you who are worried about the dues taken out of your aycheck, they are 100% TAX DEDUCTABLE! Helps offset the 'sting' a little.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[ballsdeep123]

SKYWpilot,

Why is $120/hr for a 90 seat jet unrealistic? That was our middle level rate on the Bae 146 before we lost UAL flying to a BLENDED RATE for that size aircraft to a carrier I won't mention. That size aircraft can easily support that rate and higher.

What frustrates the rest of us at the 'evil union' carriers is that every raise SkyWest pilots have enjoyed came at the expense of a hard fought union contract. When the AWAC pilots signed Contract '99 on September 11, 2001 (yea, you read that right) it was the industry leading contract at the time, and still the leader. Skywest pilots were talking union drive at that time, and what did JA do? Matched our hourly rates. Would he have done so if either there was no union drive or AWAC had not signed that contract? NO! Management does not work that magnanimously. Your '18 month pay freeze' is proof of that. Do what ever you guys want as a pilot group, but understand that you are looked down upon by a large percentage in this industry because you all ride on the coattails of the hard work and sacrafice of the union carriers that you yourselves put down.

Peace.

Rekks

That's the smartest thing I've read about this argument so far! It it weren't for all us "evil" ALPA carriers SkyWest would would not be getting compensated nearly as well. It seems there is a very skewed view of how unions work and how they protect their people. ALPA doesn't bring down the pilot group, management does and some day when the fit hits the shan over there at SkyWest you'll see that. Everything is nice and dandy there right now because your company is making money and has low costs. But just like other airlines their costs will start to rise as things settle down and their pilot group gets older, and your management, that you hold so dearly, will come to you and take everything you have and you won't have any say in it at all.

It's also interesting to note that having ALPA's national division allows the pilots, as a whole, to lobby congress for things that pertain to the pilot industry as a GROUP that SkyWest and other non-alpa unions get to ride to coattails of as well. Even carriers that use unions like the Teamsters really aren't looking out for the pilot industry as a whole when they really should be, because at the end of the day, we're all stuck in the same sinking ship.

 

[www.]

Wow, it seems to me we already have compitent people already doing that here at SkyWest, and for free.

To bad you don't have it in a contract.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

You forgot to mention tht you also have " re-flow"
For guys who don't know what that is. Its like getting Junior manned without getting 150% pay.

Have you ever got "reflowed" on a day off? At my company reflow and JM are two totally different things.
Reflow is an unscheduled change to a trip. It could be a change in the destination for an out and back or an extra trip tacked on during a long break. Typically a reflow would occur due to another aircraft having a MX problem or a crewmember getting sick at an outstation.
Anotherwords it's generally not a forecast situation, rather a response to an unforeseen problem.
In over 6 years it's happened a few times that I can recall. In some cases it can actually work out to your benefit. All depends.

Junior man is flying on days that you were not scheduled to fly.
Reflow is an unexpected change to your schedule during a normal work block.
Junior man is voluntary for us. Reflow is not.

When you get a chance you can explain how junior man and reflow are basically the same. Maybe at your company the terminology is different but where I work they are different animals.

From my perspective reflow doesn't occur often enough for it to be an issue for me personally. Unlike excessive junior manning reflows are seldom preventable. It's usually not a lack of staffing causing a reflow.

 

[Coloaviator]

Comparable Pay

I rarely respond to anything on here but why isn't there equal criticism for US Airways, Jetblue, and Mesa as far as their 12 year Captain 90 seat rates are concerned. Please don't get me wrong there needs to be better pay at Skywest when it comes to the 900's but the others mentioned above have rather low rates as well. US Airways=$95, Jetblue=$89, and Mesa=$82 all for 12 year Captain. To be fair Mesa has been given a fair amount of criticism but not the other 2.

Just a point to ponder!

 

[ballsdeep123]

I rarely respond to anything on here but why isn't there equal criticism for US Airways, Jetblue, and Mesa as far as their 12 year Captain 90 seat rates are concerned. Please don't get me wrong there needs to be better pay at Skywest when it comes to the 900's but the others mentioned above have rather low rates as well. US Airways=$95, Jetblue=$89, and Mesa=$82 all for 12 year Captain. To be fair Mesa has been given a fair amount of criticism but not the other 2.

Just a point to ponder!

You make a good point Coloaviator. I agree that the hourly rates across the board are pretty sad, but they can't be compared to Mesa because they have NO work rules. That is a HUGE difference in QOL and pay.

 

[SSDD]

Something else that is generally ignored is that he 900 airframes are limited to 70/76 seats by DAL contract scope.

 

[reno]

1-888-SKY-ALPA Press 1

 

[007]

Wow, it seems to me we already have compitent people already doing that here at SkyWest, and for free. Thanks for shedding light on something that sounded like we couldn't live without it before. I'm sure glad we didn't have that vote before you came along and straightened us out. Whew...dodged the bullet there, huh guys?

You not gonna go to SWA because they have a union?

 

[Morning Wood]

Ponchus,

Trying to give a 'fair and balanced' education to these guys is like asking a muslim extremist to understand that Americans are not his enemy, of talking sense into a moonie, jesus freak, or any other extreme fundamentalist, close-minded fool. I know we have to keep trying, but boy does it get exasperating at times.

Your (this is to the kool-aid drinking fools) 75-80% prior 121 guys most likely were :


c-Other regional guys looking for an easier/no commute (one more time, these points are something your MANAGEMENT controls, not you or ALPA)


Peace.

Rekks

And management controls your commuting how?

 

[Ponchus pilot]

Junior man is flying on days that you were not scheduled to fly.
Reflow is an unexpected change to your schedule during a normal work block.
Junior man is voluntary for us. Reflow is not.

When you get a chance you can explain how junior man and reflow are basically the same. Maybe at your company the terminology is different but where I work they are different animals.

The standard at ALPA cariers is different then. It does not have to be your day off for you to be junior manned. You can just finish a pairing and have it happen. All airlines have it and you deserve 150% pay for it. Now ther are instances that you are scheduled for lets say a 1.5 hour block. Your gurantee might be 3.5. the comany might take advantage and add another trip to bring you closer or slightly over the min gurantee. You should gaid paid for that extra time. I believe Mesa guys just won an arbitration about this issue though I don't know the details.

I rarely respond to anything on here but why isn't there equal criticism for US Airways, Jetblue, and Mesa as far as their 12 year Captain 90 seat rates are concerned. Please don't get me wrong there needs to be better pay at Skywest when it comes to the 900's but the others mentioned above have rather low rates as well. US Airways=$95, Jetblue=$89, and Mesa=$82 all for 12 year Captain. To be fair Mesa has been given a fair amount of criticism but not the other 2.

They all make more than Skywest guys do and they all have contracts except JB. Plus not many guys stay at regionals for 12 years. Either way at least they have a contract.

 

[Morning Wood]

Do you really think if 5th year pay was $20/hr, we'd all still be working here?

Yes because this is the only industry I know that people are willing to work for the wages being paid or even pay to work somewhere.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

MW,

Management controls this by creating schedules and/or lines of flying that require self paid hotels on each end, when in fact schedules can be built easily and profitably to accomodate those who commute for various reasons. But the union does not control how those sched's are built, the company does.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[Morning Wood]

MW,

Management controls this by creating schedules and/or lines of flying that require self paid hotels on each end, when in fact schedules can be built easily and profitably to accomodate those who commute for various reasons. But the union does not control how those sched's are built, the company does.

Peace.

Rekks

I would only agree with part of that. The SkyWests, ASA's, Mesabas etc of the world don't make their schedules. They are at the mercy of big brother. When United depeaked LAX, SFO, and DEN or changes flight schedules every 28 days, the UAX carriers are along for the ride. There's no way to build schedules to make commuters and non-commuters happy. The only real influence management has on commuting is what domiciles they have and whether they fire you after missing a couple trips.

If your sitting on reserve or the tail end Charlie line holder as a commuter, you're probably fuked anyway.

 

[B190Captain]

Sign for the raises and then vote ALPA in. In 4 more years you'll get another one.

Oh yeah ALPA is the answer. They have done some much for all of us.

 

[Gobi Gred]

And management gives things like health insurance, pay for cancellations, block or better, minimum daily guarantee, trip rigs, etc. out of the goodness of their hearts. Yeah right.

 

[CRJDog]

And management gives things like health insurance, pay for cancellations, block or better, minimum daily guarantee, trip rigs, etc. out of the goodness of their hearts. Yeah right.

ALPA is not responsible for all the things that you mentioned. Those are terms agreed by management and the labor group. Non-Union carriers have the same perks.

ALPA achievements:

FO pay 19/hr
Mesaba debacle
Blow Jets
Mesa's wad of toilet paper Contract.
Comair cuts.
The race to the bottom.

A union is not a union without solidarity. ALPA has none. Its just a bunch of young and old pilots fighting and undercutting each other under the same roof.

BTW The health insurance is paid by you on a group rate.



Just to name a few...

Wake up and smell what ALPA is shovelin. ALPA serves mainline interests at the regional's expense. ALPA is very good at taking your money but that is about it.

 

[atrdriver]

It may not be all peaches and cream at Skywest, but at least there is a possibility of things changing for the better; without hostility,anger and misery. A union at Skywest will take what is a decent relationship and make it into the same relationship that exists between most every other regional carrier and their pilots.

And there is also a possibility that they will decide to use you in the whipsaw, start talking about containing costs, and you will have no say in the process. Having a union on the property does NOTHING to impair the flexibility of the company, as long as the management team is willing to deal fairly with their labor. Historically a union is as happy to work with management as the employees are well treated.

 

[atrdriver]

No they aren't passing out dope, they are passing out jobs flying former ASA aircraft. It is ALPA that is passing out some good dope and many of you have been taking too many hits off it....

Well, the way I inderstand it they got a 70 and we got 2 50's. Sounds like a net gain to me. And if those jobs they are passing out involves flying a 70 seat aircraft for 50 seat pay count me out.

 

[thrustport]

ALPA numbers filed with US Dept of Labor........

$487,930.....Duane Woerth's salary
$180,874.....Dennis Dolan's (VP) slary
$162,735.....Paul Rice's (VP) salary
$155,360.....Christopher Beebe's (VP) salary
$311,158.....ALPA Head of Finance salary
$161,195.....Bob Striegel's (Staff Engineer) salary
$113,710.....Manager Real Estate's salary
$111,135.....Meeting Planner's salary
$62,682......ALPA Receptionist's salary
$45,906......Job title listed as "temp"
$123,113.....ALPA Head of HR
$65,166......ALPA Graphic artist's salary
$130,954....ALPA Economic analyst's salary
$54,543......DAL MEC Chair's salary
$17,802......DHL MEC Chair's salary
$20,999......ASA MEC Chair's salary
$14,997......ASA MEC Vice Chair's salary
$25,563......FedEx MEC Chair's salary
$35,337......UAL MEC Chair's salary
$66,587......TSA MEC Chair's salary

$43,800,000 or there abouts in salaries...........

The question is does Skywest need ALPA or does ALPA need 2,500 more pilot dues to pay those salaries???