Skywest SAPA proposed pay package is out

[bmpilot2003]

Vote no. Votes yes. Vote maybe. Vote for Mickey Mouse. It doesn't matter. Jerry will impose whatever he wants on you clowns at SKYW. He is only offering this carrot in hopes it will serve as a "measuring stick" for the upcoming ASA/XJT real negotiations.

Next time you see me say Hi! I'll be wearing the same CLOWN SUIT as you!!!

 

[Shobra]

This is not an ALPA or Union Thread.....

I Have (little to) nothing to gain from this new Agreement (not contract).

Vote NO!!

Couldn't even make it an even 4.00 MDG the company had to have the 3 minutes.

SkyWest Pilots lost a ton of pay with the Leg credit only thing. You see it abused all the time, trips on the board with NO changes in them only offering LCO.

FO Scale needs to go to 10 years not 8.

Needs same raise for Captains and FOs. Needs same BHO for Captains and FOs

Why in the world do they hate the FOs soo much at SkyWest???

Are they mad because the FOs made so much money that first year and had to buy their own Jepps etc?? Will they get a kick back for turning in their Jepps if the brick ever comes out??

 

[difete]

LOL. no i think they are mad that all the Fo's qualify now for the full financial/performance rewards! thats why the bar was set higher to achieve a descent payout.

I agree with a "no vote" and stall it as much as possible and let Skyeast (ASA, Expressjet) solve their rate before we accept anything here. They have more leverage to negotiate than we do over here.

By the way, thanks for all your input, it brings more light to the subject.

 

[Ski Bum]

There are way too many loopholes in this pay package.

1. The MDG is probably derived from a formula SKYW management put together. They probably figured out that the Avg Min Day is 3:57 and so by giving us a MDG of 3:57 they really aren't giving us anything. They also probably realized the MDG days are less than a couple of percent of all our days. So again, not giving us a real increase.
2. The training travel guarantee only applies to travel TO training...how long before we start seeing SKYW get around that by always having us do sims on the day we travel TO training and then traveling home the next day where they can just pay us for Deadheads?
3. All of the items under the OTHER category are just "options in PBS." It seems to me that they should either be mandatory changes to PBS or not be included at all. We are constantly getting changes to PBS without having them tied to a pay package. Would these have come out anyway?
4. The splitting of the SIA and SAPA policy manuals is a "target" date. IF it is in this pay package it should be a FIRM date. A target date simply implies that they will "try" to get it done.

Pay aside - what we really want isn't even addressed. The trip quality has deteriorated so much that we need to be addressing TRIP RIGS and DUTY RIGS. Drop our 1 to 1 duty rig down to 10 hours instead of 12 hours. Try making trip rigs that will improve our QOL and don't worry about a MDG. I believe that with the new crew rest and duty rules due out next year (mandated by Congress) the rigs will be more important than pay rates.

As for pay - can someone shed some light on what XJT and ASA got (percentage wise) in their last contracts? 1-1.5% seems ridiculously low for a company that has purchased 2 airlines has hundreds of millions in the bank and has paid out a dividiend to shareholders for 61 quarters in a row thanks to the hardwork of its employees.

 

[Ski Bum]

I also think it seems a little fishy that they are trying to rush this through by offering a carrot of "if you pass this now...then the effective date is September 1st." I thought we were negotiating for pay rates in 2011. Now they want us to pass it and get the payrates effective 9/1/10? Anytime a company is willing to pay you more now rather than just negotiating for the agreed upon dates means something is up.

 

[urflyingme?!]

What is your point with the Mesa Brown jacket bull----

I wore a Mesa brown jacket and soooooo

And so did I. Maybe someone is a bit defensive…

 

[vtech]

Just out of curiosity, as a SKYW pilot. After voting yes for a pay package with a net loss last time, and voting DOWN a union, WTF did you think we were going to get????

Just out of curiosity, how do you calculate that the last pay package at SKYW was a "net loss last time?" Honest question? How do you come to that conclusion? Is it the "didn't keep up with inflation" argument? Just wondering.

So, urflyingme, you've made two posts on this thread since I posed my question to you and neither post responded to my question. What's up with that? Again, honest question. It seems there's always a lot of talk like, "this doesn't even keep up with inflation," or "this is really a pay cut because of inflation." If that's what you're talking about, please let me know in this industry what contracts have kept up with inflation. What pilot group is better off now than they were, say, five years ago or six years ago or seven years ago? Where's the big upside in this business?

And for all you Skywest pilots, please answer this fill in the blank question:

"If I was flying for ____________, I'd be in a much better position than I am now. I wish I was flying for ______________, instead of Skywest."

So what's your answer?

 

[buscap]

So, are you Skywest guys ALPA?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

There are way too many loopholes in this pay package.

1. The MDG is probably derived from a formula SKYW management put together. They probably figured out that the Avg Min Day is 3:57 and so by giving us a MDG of 3:57 they really aren't giving us anything. They also probably realized the MDG days are less than a couple of percent of all our days. So again, not giving us a real increase.
2. The training travel guarantee only applies to travel TO training...how long before we start seeing SKYW get around that by always having us do sims on the day we travel TO training and then traveling home the next day where they can just pay us for Deadheads?
3. All of the items under the OTHER category are just "options in PBS." It seems to me that they should either be mandatory changes to PBS or not be included at all. We are constantly getting changes to PBS without having them tied to a pay package. Would these have come out anyway?
4. The splitting of the SIA and SAPA policy manuals is a "target" date. IF it is in this pay package it should be a FIRM date. A target date simply implies that they will "try" to get it done.

Pay aside - what we really want isn't even addressed. The trip quality has deteriorated so much that we need to be addressing TRIP RIGS and DUTY RIGS. Drop our 1 to 1 duty rig down to 10 hours instead of 12 hours. Try making trip rigs that will improve our QOL and don't worry about a MDG. I believe that with the new crew rest and duty rules due out next year (mandated by Congress) the rigs will be more important than pay rates.

As for pay - can someone shed some light on what XJT and ASA got (percentage wise) in their last contracts? 1-1.5% seems ridiculously low for a company that has purchased 2 airlines has hundreds of millions in the bank and has paid out a dividiend to shareholders for 61 quarters in a row thanks to the hardwork of its employees.

DUTY and TRIP RIGS should be an absolute must!!!!!! I am sick of 6 and 7 leg days doing former EMB legs that pay nothing, even though your duty day is 11 or 12 hours with all your extra airport appreciation time between the short flights!!


Don't forget they also dumped tens of millions into their investments in Vietnam and Brazil!!!

 

[vtech]

And for all you Skywest pilots, please answer this fill in the blank question:

"If I was flying for ____________, I'd be in a much better position than I am now. I wish I was flying for ______________, instead of Skywest."

So what's your answer?

. . . . . chirp . . . . . . chirp . . . . . . chirp . . . . . . .

and the silence is telling

. . . . . chirp . . . . . chirp . . . . .

 

[SkyNation]

. . . . . chirp . . . . . . chirp . . . . . . chirp . . . . . . .

and the silence is telling

. . . . . chirp . . . . . chirp . . . . .

DING DING DING DING DING! WINNER WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER!

open it up to all, though. that PFT dewsh PCL_128 has said he'd rather fly for Mesa.

 

[CFIT]

Not to get into an ALPA pissing match, but have you ever used ALPA services? The first time you actually use their services be it a lawyer fighting a grievance/arbitration specifically for YOU or have a doc in Denver go to bat for YOU for hours and hours with the FAA or when you ball an airplane up and within hours you have 100+ ALPA volunteers(accident investigators, CIRP, lawyers, etc...) at the crash scene(anywhere in the world). Should I go on? What would those things noted above cost you out of your pocket? Most lawyers charge a couple thousand retainer plus hourly, doc's the same. I paid about 1500 in ALPA dues last year and I know I got my money's worth.

ALPA is not perfect I will agree with you there, but the services they provide, when they are needed, are excellent and I guess you cant really appreciate them until you need them.

All of this is agreed, but the problem is that overall and without exception is that ALPO is for the legacy airlines. There isn't any reason that the same services could not be used for a union that adequatly represented the regionals. SWAPA and APA and UPS have them.

 

[CFIT]

I also think it seems a little fishy that they are trying to rush this through by offering a carrot of "if you pass this now...then the effective date is September 1st." I thought we were negotiating for pay rates in 2011. Now they want us to pass it and get the payrates effective 9/1/10? Anytime a company is willing to pay you more now rather than just negotiating for the agreed upon dates means something is up.

I agree, if the company wants it right now, then wait for a better proposal. I think they want things settled before ASA/XJET goes in for their contract.

 

[Ski Bum]

As far as regionals go, "I wish I was flying for Skywest."

It isn't always about finding someplace better to work, it is about making the place where you currently work better. I am happy to work for a strong company that values financial stability. I think Skywest is a great regional, so I would not want to work at another regional. I also don't think you have to choose to work at another company because you don't agree with certain aspects of your current company. There seems to be this attitude that you cannot disagree with someone or something without being completely for it or against it. That is completely false. Most of the time you might agree with something 80% or disagree with one thing, but not another. Regardless, you can still be a good employee while disagreeing with certain company decisions and you can still be a strong union member while disagreeing with certain union decisions.

I am guessing by the tone of your question that you also believe Skywest is one of the best places to be. So if Skywest is the leader of the regional airline industry (financially stable, growth potential, strong contracts, good training, etc...) why is it that we aren't the leaders on pay and work rules. It seems to me that Skywest is one of the only regionals in the country that is in a position to pay pilots more and support a higher QOL and yet they do not.

Why don't you value your services and your profession enough to expect more from Skywest?

 

[BoilerUP]

I agree with a "no vote" and stall it as much as possible and let Skyeast (ASA, Expressjet) solve their rate before we accept anything here. They have more leverage to negotiate than we do over here.

Wouldn't that be another example of Skywest pilots riding the coattails of and reaping the benefits from their ALPA-represented colleagues?

 

[outtahere]

You got 3.57 because we at ASA got 3.57 in our PBS loa. You get nothing at Skywest unless a union carrier gets it first. You are the true coat tail riding, scum sucking, barnacles of the industry. You have no choice in anything, your insurance will be changed to a CDHP while we at ASA keep our PPO. You are being used to try to lower expectations at ASA. Face it, your pilot group is the whip in the whipsaw. If we get it, you will, if we don't, you won't! Why don't yall do something intelligent, and beneficial for you and us, and join us so we can all pull in the same direction?

 

[rtmcfi]

Wouldn't that be another example of Skywest pilots riding the coattails of and reaping the benefits from their ALPA-represented colleagues?

Yes it would be riding coat tails. It would also be the thing that would benefit the ASA folks most, short of joining Alpa. If the OO guys accept this pig
, it makes the ASA folks negotiating that much more difficult.

 

[CX880]

LOL watch this pass by 96.5% Would you like it with or without lube? With lube please and koolaide too if you got some more.

You got 3.57 because we at ASA got 3.57 in our PBS loa. You get nothing at Skywest unless a union carrier gets it first. You are the true coat tail riding, scum sucking, barnacles of the industry. You have no choice in anything, your insurance will be changed to a CDHP while we at ASA keep our PPO. You are being used to try to lower expectations at ASA. Face it, your pilot group is the whip in the whipsaw. If we get it, you will, if we don't, you won't! Why don't yall do something intelligent, and beneficial for you and us, and join us so we can all pull in the same direction?

 

[Flyerdan]

Wouldn't that be another example of Skywest pilots riding the coattails of and reaping the benefits from their ALPA-represented colleagues?

YES, that is exactly what it is! Those of us at Skywest that would love to see XJT force the three airlines to merge and be an integrated ALPA pilot group are left with nothing more than the hope that once again an ALPA pilot group will do the heavy lifting for us. It is sad but very true!

On a side note: I am extremely disappointed that it appears that the XJT ALPA folks are going to cave on the integration scope in favor of whipsaw protections.

I wonder how the majority of the XJT pilot group feel about that issue.

 

[Flyerdan]

YES, that is exactly what it is! Those of us at Skywest that would love to see XJT force the three airlines to merge and be an integrated ALPA pilot group are left with nothing more than the hope that once again an ALPA pilot group will do the heavy lifting for us. It is sad but very true!

On a side note: I am extremely disappointed that it appears that the XJT ALPA folks are going to cave on the integration scope in favor of whipsaw protections.

I wonder how the majority of the XJT pilot group feel about that issue.

Just to follow up on my point here. Can't it be said that this pay issue is the first whipsaw action Skywest Inc will use against XJT & ASA? I have no doubt that if this pay proposal stands at Skywest Airlines that it will be pointed to when XJT/ASA start their negotiations. The argument will be that growth will go to the airline that has a lower cost workforce. Let the race to the bottom begin!!!

 

[Nightrain_080]

NO

This should not be voted on until 1/1/2011.

Let them take their dirty nickels and buy something else.

MDG of 5 hrs and pay for de-ice. That should pass.

 

[the palm]

You guys don't get paid for de-ice?

 

[Shobra]

not in ORD when you de-ice at the gate, before push-back.

Everywhere else Yes.

There is no reason to vote for this. A 1% (or 1.5%)is a face slap.

It's like going out to eat, at a nice place, and leaving a penny for a tip. It's more insulting than leaving nothing at all. It's not that you forgot to tip, It's that you found the service to be so poor that you only wanted to give the lowest amount possible! This shows managements true disdain for the pilot group.

 

[Dizel8]

As far as regionals go, "I wish I was flying for Skywest."

It isn't always about finding someplace better to work, it is about making the place where you currently work better. I am happy to work for a strong company that values financial stability. I think Skywest is a great regional, so I would not want to work at another regional. I also don't think you have to choose to work at another company because you don't agree with certain aspects of your current company. There seems to be this attitude that you cannot disagree with someone or something without being completely for it or against it. That is completely false. Most of the time you might agree with something 80% or disagree with one thing, but not another. Regardless, you can still be a good employee while disagreeing with certain company decisions and you can still be a strong union member while disagreeing with certain union decisions.

I am guessing by the tone of your question that you also believe Skywest is one of the best places to be. So if Skywest is the leader of the regional airline industry (financially stable, growth potential, strong contracts, good training, etc...) why is it that we aren't the leaders on pay and work rules. It seems to me that Skywest is one of the only regionals in the country that is in a position to pay pilots more and support a higher QOL and yet they do not.

Why don't you value your services and your profession enough to expect more from Skywest?

Very well said, hope vtech reads it!

 

[Speedtape]

There is an old saying: "You get what you negotiate!"

 

[CFIT]

You got 3.57 because we at ASA got 3.57 in our PBS loa. You get nothing at Skywest unless a union carrier gets it first. You are the true coat tail riding, scum sucking, barnacles of the industry. You have no choice in anything, your insurance will be changed to a CDHP while we at ASA keep our PPO. You are being used to try to lower expectations at ASA. Face it, your pilot group is the whip in the whipsaw. If we get it, you will, if we don't, you won't! Why don't yall do something intelligent, and beneficial for you and us, and join us so we can all pull in the same direction?

I think that many look at as if "ALPA would be a gun to the head and not would be a gun to the heart", what would you do?

 

[vtech]

As far as regionals go, "I wish I was flying for Skywest."

It isn't always about finding someplace better to work, it is about making the place where you currently work better. I am happy to work for a strong company that values financial stability. I think Skywest is a great regional, so I would not want to work at another regional. I also don't think you have to choose to work at another company because you don't agree with certain aspects of your current company. There seems to be this attitude that you cannot disagree with someone or something without being completely for it or against it. That is completely false. Most of the time you might agree with something 80% or disagree with one thing, but not another. Regardless, you can still be a good employee while disagreeing with certain company decisions and you can still be a strong union member while disagreeing with certain union decisions.

I am guessing by the tone of your question that you also believe Skywest is one of the best places to be. So if Skywest is the leader of the regional airline industry (financially stable, growth potential, strong contracts, good training, etc...) why is it that we aren't the leaders on pay and work rules. It seems to me that Skywest is one of the only regionals in the country that is in a position to pay pilots more and support a higher QOL and yet they do not.

Why don't you value your services and your profession enough to expect more from Skywest?

I read it, Dizel.

As expected, there isn't another regional that he'd like to work for other than Skywest. A lot of pilots have left other regionals to come to work for Skywest but very few, if any, have ever left Skywest to go to work for another regional.

The pay package? Not what the majority of those who frequent these boards would ever vote for. But then those who frequent these boards don't represent the majority view. This may be a closer vote that in the past but the proposal will be approved.

For those that want to "send a message" by voting "NO," ask yourself what was the result of the last "message" sent to management by voting "NO."

For those that want to vote "NO" and send it back to the table, ask yourself what was the result of the last time it was sent back to the table.

For those that want 5% or more across the board, where are all the recent contracts that have resulted in what you're thinking you deserve?

The question was asked, "why is it that we (Skywest) aren't the leaders on pay and work rules?" The answer is that we are in many areas. That's why nobody has pointed to another regional for whom they'd rather be working.

Is everything perfect at Skywest? No. Is everthing perfect at any airline? No. Is there a better regional to work for. I don't think so.

Do I want Skywest to be a better place to work. Yes. Do I value my services to the company. Yes.

Will voting "NO" make Skywest a better place to work. No. If I vote "NO," will management value my services more. No.

I believe it's the best management will offer and I know the representative board beleves it's the best management will offer.

That's the reason the proposal will pass. The person who has worked very hard on behalf of the Skywest pilots and who is held in high regard by the most vocal portion of the Skywest pilot group has said this is the most he and the team he has worked with to put this proposal together can get from management and that going back to the table will not result in a better offer.

 

[Dubya]

You got 3.57 because we at ASA got 3.57 in our PBS loa. You get nothing at Skywest unless a union carrier gets it first. You are the true coat tail riding, scum sucking, barnacles of the industry. You have no choice in anything, your insurance will be changed to a CDHP while we at ASA keep our PPO. You are being used to try to lower expectations at ASA. Face it, your pilot group is the whip in the whipsaw. If we get it, you will, if we don't, you won't! Why don't yall do something intelligent, and beneficial for you and us, and join us so we can all pull in the same direction?

I'm sorry, but by "we" did you mean ASA before you were bailed out by SKW? I mean, weren't you just a giant turd in the Delta toilet that wouldn't flush until SKW bailed you out?

 

[urflyingme?!]

VTECH,
The HEAD of the negotiating committee told me the last pay package was a net loss...

 

[Missed Approach]

MDG had to be changed to 3:57 b/c this agreement changed the number of days reserves work from 20 to 19. 19 days * 3:57 = 75h5m