Skywest SAPA proposed pay package is out

[sniper]

Just out of curiosity, as a SKYW pilot. After voting yes for a pay package with a net loss last time, and voting DOWN a union, WTF did you think we were going to get????

why are you soooo bothered by Mesa?

I think you should take a paycut so management can buy Mesa and offer more cash to mesa pilots....j------ss

 

[buscap]

But really-

What does that vote mean? What obligation does Jerry have to take your advice?

You are underestimating the importance of the vote. It is an exercise of the measure which must be taken in order to keep a union off the property. The Skywest pilots have more control over their QOL and pay than most people realize.

Jerry wants to keep the union away and he wants to do it as cheaply as possible. The pilots know that and have reaped the benefit of playing the game. And don't forget, they get to do so without paying union dues.

Their unique position in the industry of getting most union benefits without paying dues has worked well for them. They are only shorted the legal, medical, and pride of contributing to the profession and safety advocacy.

But given the used car salesman persona and US AIRWAYS shananigans of ALPA, I really can't blame them. Though I do wish they would at least join up with some union or form a proper in-house.

 

[urflyingme?!]

why are you soooo bothered by Mesa?

I think you should take a paycut so management can buy Mesa and offer more cash to mesa pilots....j------ss

Where did I say anything about Mesa?

You don't work there either...

 

[Turbine Pilot]

Seriously, Good Luck Skywest Pilots! No pun intended. I didn't realize you were up for a new contract. Did the company just offer this out of the blue to keep you all happy enough not to get a union? I can tell you this much, ALPA isn't worth the 2% dues that you pay. Most of all the workers at this regional level are volunteers so it is no different then what you have at skywest, without the dues. Maybe a little better job protection if you mess something up online, but otherwise not worth all the due money.

 

[trip]

I see pilots top out @ about 114$ is that correct?

 

[Skywest Pylot]

Vote no. Votes yes. Vote maybe. Vote for Mickey Mouse. It doesn't matter. Jerry will impose whatever he wants on you clowns at SKYW. He is only offering this carrot in hopes it will serve as a "measuring stick" for the upcoming ASA/XJT real negotiations.

Bingo! In business it is called anchoring. SkyWest management wants to set a low bar for the upcoming ASA/XJT negotions.

Why not vote it down, send a strong message to management, wait for ASA/XJT to finish negotiations and then demand a match?

 

[sniper]

Where did I say anything about Mesa?

You don't work there either...

What is your point with the Mesa Brown jacket bull----

I wore a Mesa brown jacket and soooooo

 

[imisscorplife]

voting no

 

[rjacobs]

Seriously, Good Luck Skywest Pilots! No pun intended. I didn't realize you were up for a new contract. Did the company just offer this out of the blue to keep you all happy enough not to get a union? I can tell you this much, ALPA isn't worth the 2% dues that you pay. Most of all the workers at this regional level are volunteers so it is no different then what you have at skywest, without the dues. Maybe a little better job protection if you mess something up online, but otherwise not worth all the due money.

Not to get into an ALPA pissing match, but have you ever used ALPA services? The first time you actually use their services be it a lawyer fighting a grievance/arbitration specifically for YOU or have a doc in Denver go to bat for YOU for hours and hours with the FAA or when you ball an airplane up and within hours you have 100+ ALPA volunteers(accident investigators, CIRP, lawyers, etc...) at the crash scene(anywhere in the world). Should I go on? What would those things noted above cost you out of your pocket? Most lawyers charge a couple thousand retainer plus hourly, doc's the same. I paid about 1500 in ALPA dues last year and I know I got my money's worth.

ALPA is not perfect I will agree with you there, but the services they provide, when they are needed, are excellent and I guess you cant really appreciate them until you need them.

 

[bmpilot2003]

Serious question. Do SKYW pilots even have a say in the matter?

The company puts up SAPA to give pilots here a false sense of representation.

 

[bmpilot2003]

Vote no. Votes yes. Vote maybe. Vote for Mickey Mouse. It doesn't matter. Jerry will impose whatever he wants on you clowns at SKYW. He is only offering this carrot in hopes it will serve as a "measuring stick" for the upcoming ASA/XJT real negotiations.

Next time you see me say Hi! I'll be wearing the same CLOWN SUIT as you!!!

 

[Shobra]

This is not an ALPA or Union Thread.....

I Have (little to) nothing to gain from this new Agreement (not contract).

Vote NO!!

Couldn't even make it an even 4.00 MDG the company had to have the 3 minutes.

SkyWest Pilots lost a ton of pay with the Leg credit only thing. You see it abused all the time, trips on the board with NO changes in them only offering LCO.

FO Scale needs to go to 10 years not 8.

Needs same raise for Captains and FOs. Needs same BHO for Captains and FOs

Why in the world do they hate the FOs soo much at SkyWest???

Are they mad because the FOs made so much money that first year and had to buy their own Jepps etc?? Will they get a kick back for turning in their Jepps if the brick ever comes out??

 

[difete]

LOL. no i think they are mad that all the Fo's qualify now for the full financial/performance rewards! thats why the bar was set higher to achieve a descent payout.

I agree with a "no vote" and stall it as much as possible and let Skyeast (ASA, Expressjet) solve their rate before we accept anything here. They have more leverage to negotiate than we do over here.

By the way, thanks for all your input, it brings more light to the subject.

 

[Ski Bum]

There are way too many loopholes in this pay package.

1. The MDG is probably derived from a formula SKYW management put together. They probably figured out that the Avg Min Day is 3:57 and so by giving us a MDG of 3:57 they really aren't giving us anything. They also probably realized the MDG days are less than a couple of percent of all our days. So again, not giving us a real increase.
2. The training travel guarantee only applies to travel TO training...how long before we start seeing SKYW get around that by always having us do sims on the day we travel TO training and then traveling home the next day where they can just pay us for Deadheads?
3. All of the items under the OTHER category are just "options in PBS." It seems to me that they should either be mandatory changes to PBS or not be included at all. We are constantly getting changes to PBS without having them tied to a pay package. Would these have come out anyway?
4. The splitting of the SIA and SAPA policy manuals is a "target" date. IF it is in this pay package it should be a FIRM date. A target date simply implies that they will "try" to get it done.

Pay aside - what we really want isn't even addressed. The trip quality has deteriorated so much that we need to be addressing TRIP RIGS and DUTY RIGS. Drop our 1 to 1 duty rig down to 10 hours instead of 12 hours. Try making trip rigs that will improve our QOL and don't worry about a MDG. I believe that with the new crew rest and duty rules due out next year (mandated by Congress) the rigs will be more important than pay rates.

As for pay - can someone shed some light on what XJT and ASA got (percentage wise) in their last contracts? 1-1.5% seems ridiculously low for a company that has purchased 2 airlines has hundreds of millions in the bank and has paid out a dividiend to shareholders for 61 quarters in a row thanks to the hardwork of its employees.

 

[Ski Bum]

I also think it seems a little fishy that they are trying to rush this through by offering a carrot of "if you pass this now...then the effective date is September 1st." I thought we were negotiating for pay rates in 2011. Now they want us to pass it and get the payrates effective 9/1/10? Anytime a company is willing to pay you more now rather than just negotiating for the agreed upon dates means something is up.

 

[urflyingme?!]

What is your point with the Mesa Brown jacket bull----

I wore a Mesa brown jacket and soooooo

And so did I. Maybe someone is a bit defensive…

 

[vtech]

Just out of curiosity, as a SKYW pilot. After voting yes for a pay package with a net loss last time, and voting DOWN a union, WTF did you think we were going to get????

Just out of curiosity, how do you calculate that the last pay package at SKYW was a "net loss last time?" Honest question? How do you come to that conclusion? Is it the "didn't keep up with inflation" argument? Just wondering.

So, urflyingme, you've made two posts on this thread since I posed my question to you and neither post responded to my question. What's up with that? Again, honest question. It seems there's always a lot of talk like, "this doesn't even keep up with inflation," or "this is really a pay cut because of inflation." If that's what you're talking about, please let me know in this industry what contracts have kept up with inflation. What pilot group is better off now than they were, say, five years ago or six years ago or seven years ago? Where's the big upside in this business?

And for all you Skywest pilots, please answer this fill in the blank question:

"If I was flying for ____________, I'd be in a much better position than I am now. I wish I was flying for ______________, instead of Skywest."

So what's your answer?

 

[buscap]

So, are you Skywest guys ALPA?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

There are way too many loopholes in this pay package.

1. The MDG is probably derived from a formula SKYW management put together. They probably figured out that the Avg Min Day is 3:57 and so by giving us a MDG of 3:57 they really aren't giving us anything. They also probably realized the MDG days are less than a couple of percent of all our days. So again, not giving us a real increase.
2. The training travel guarantee only applies to travel TO training...how long before we start seeing SKYW get around that by always having us do sims on the day we travel TO training and then traveling home the next day where they can just pay us for Deadheads?
3. All of the items under the OTHER category are just "options in PBS." It seems to me that they should either be mandatory changes to PBS or not be included at all. We are constantly getting changes to PBS without having them tied to a pay package. Would these have come out anyway?
4. The splitting of the SIA and SAPA policy manuals is a "target" date. IF it is in this pay package it should be a FIRM date. A target date simply implies that they will "try" to get it done.

Pay aside - what we really want isn't even addressed. The trip quality has deteriorated so much that we need to be addressing TRIP RIGS and DUTY RIGS. Drop our 1 to 1 duty rig down to 10 hours instead of 12 hours. Try making trip rigs that will improve our QOL and don't worry about a MDG. I believe that with the new crew rest and duty rules due out next year (mandated by Congress) the rigs will be more important than pay rates.

As for pay - can someone shed some light on what XJT and ASA got (percentage wise) in their last contracts? 1-1.5% seems ridiculously low for a company that has purchased 2 airlines has hundreds of millions in the bank and has paid out a dividiend to shareholders for 61 quarters in a row thanks to the hardwork of its employees.

DUTY and TRIP RIGS should be an absolute must!!!!!! I am sick of 6 and 7 leg days doing former EMB legs that pay nothing, even though your duty day is 11 or 12 hours with all your extra airport appreciation time between the short flights!!


Don't forget they also dumped tens of millions into their investments in Vietnam and Brazil!!!

 

[vtech]

And for all you Skywest pilots, please answer this fill in the blank question:

"If I was flying for ____________, I'd be in a much better position than I am now. I wish I was flying for ______________, instead of Skywest."

So what's your answer?

. . . . . chirp . . . . . . chirp . . . . . . chirp . . . . . . .

and the silence is telling

. . . . . chirp . . . . . chirp . . . . .