Skybus

[HA25]

So you are posting fantasies/wishful thinking on this board too? Why don't you just tell us about the winning lottery ticket?

If everybody thought that the startup carrier that hired them would automatically grant them millions and thousands of pilots on a list behind them....it would be easy to sell a lot of bridges.

read my reply in the other thread... I won't waste my time repeating myself again.

 

[skiandsurf]

hmm... Ok, I'll take Skybus.

Ever heard of Peoples Express, Kiwi, Legend, Western Pacific, Muse Air, Independence Air, Hooters Air. Or what about the other ones that I cant remember the names....a bumble bee 737 out of GSO. A 737 that flew into Peorria, IL.

You get the idea yet? I prefer job security, over lies and false hopes.

If you already live in CMH, get hired at CAL and make the drive to CLE.

 

[Nindiri]

There is definitely something to be said for being home every night. It would be nice to spend that time with the kids instead of in some hotel.

 

[HA25]

Ever heard of Peoples Express, Kiwi, Legend, Western Pacific, Muse Air, Independence Air, Hooters Air. Or what about the other ones that I cant remember the names....a bumble bee 737 out of GSO. A 737 that flew into Peorria, IL.

You get the idea yet? I prefer job security, over lies and false hopes.

If you already live in CMH, get hired at CAL and make the drive to CLE.

Not a single one of those airlines had the capital, or talent that this one does. Bring up JetBlue, or Virgin and you're comparing apples to apples.

Independence was started as a commuter airline and tried to operate an LCC with the highest seat mile cost in the country.. RJ's make not cost efficient mass transportation. Furthermore, they were in Dulles, UAL's back yard and directly competed with them.. Skybus is not going after markets, they're creating them.

And you simple can't compare a company like Pace (Hooters) with a few 737-100's and $2 or $3M in cash to Skybus.. if you insist on it, then I'm pissing in the wind.

We need to have a grown up conversation here, or this is just going to turn into a debate for the sake of debate forum and not an "Info" forum.

 

[HA25]

There is definitely something to be said for being home every night. It would be nice to spend that time with the kids instead of in some hotel.

be careful, you're stating facts.. this doesn't go over well here in the emotional and hormonal world of FI.com..

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

So you are posting fantasies/wishful thinking on this board too? Why don't you just tell us about the winning lottery ticket?

If everybody thought that the startup carrier that hired them would automatically grant them millions and thousands of pilots on a list behind them....it would be easy to sell a lot of bridges.

Wake up and smell the roses. We live in a capitalistic economy where the next guy who invents the sugarless/0-fat doughnut that tastes like Crispy Kreme is going to be a billionare. Don't go blaming LCCs for where the airline industry is headed. Most of the Legaices were in trouble before 9/11 with their overzealous expansion and outrageous contracts. Just look at it as simple capitalism, nothing more, nothing less... and when the aviation industry in the next 100 years finally advances in technology, we'll look back at all this hemin' and hawin' about wages and laugh when all the planes are pilotless...

 

[HA25]

we'll look back at all this hemin' and hawin' about wages and laugh when all the planes are pilotless...

put me on record here and now that in the next 20 years, Cargo will be pilotless, and pax will be down to 1 if not 0 pilots... I might be off a year or two, but it's going to happen. Enjoy it while it lasts..and if you're in your early 20's and want to be a pilot... come up with a plan be for your 40's..

 

[skiandsurf]

We need to have a grown up conversation here, or this is just going to turn into a debate for the sake of debate forum and not an "Info" forum.

Ok, lets change from job security to job satisfaction (pride).

How comfortable is a A319 with 152 seats?

How do you feel when you put on your Park Ranger outfit?

How do you feel when you watch old ladies struggle up the stairs? And wait for the weather to hit.

How do you like having to pay to get your car out of the lot everyday?

How do you feel when the FAs complain that they arent making the $35,000 that they were told. But instead they are making $800/month ($9600/yr)? (sales projection were each pax would purchase $10 worth of goods, reality each pax is purchasing under $4 worth).

How do you feel when the company would rather treat these FAs like sh*t? Its cheaper to hire and train new ones, than pay them.

How do you like flying from CMH to OAK, then having to squeeze into one of those uncomfortable seats for the return flight?

If this is the company that you want to work for, well, to each his own. NOT FOR ME.


I am pretty sure of my facts. So tell me how good Skybus is again.

 

[Nindiri]

If I lived near Columbus and was looking for work, I'd probably consider Skybus. Home with the family every night and okay pay. Worst case scenario, even if you quit a year later you're no worse off than you were before.

 

[HA25]

Ok, lets change from job security to job satisfaction (pride).

How comfortable is a A319 with 152 seats?

How do you feel when you put on your Park Ranger outfit?

How do you feel when you watch old ladies struggle up the stairs? And wait for the weather to hit.

How do you like having to pay to get your car out of the lot everyday?

How do you feel when the FAs complain that they arent making the $35,000 that they were told. But instead they are making $800/month ($9600/yr)? (sales projection were each pax would purchase $10 worth of goods, reality each pax is purchasing under $4 worth).

How do you feel when the company would rather treat these FAs like sh*t? Its cheaper to hire and train new ones, than pay them.

How do you like flying from CMH to OAK, then having to squeeze into one of those uncomfortable seats for the return flight?

If this is the company that you want to work for, well, to each his own. NOT FOR ME.


I am pretty sure of my facts. So tell me how good Skybus is again.

I didn't get into flying for a uniform, nor do I care what the seat pitch is so long as the passenger isn't being extorted for it. (I recently paid $800 one way for a ticket on Useless air to Columbus for my wife)..

I also wonder how you got your facts? you claim their facts, so what is their source? I spoke with several Skybus employees in my research on whether to take this job or not (including FA's) and I got no such feed back. Please enlighten us?

Furthermore, I'm on record here for saying that FA's are over paid at most airlines.. There was a time (not long ago) when it was a job a gal did for a few years and she moved on.. it was never intended to be a 40+ year career with $70K+ in wages as was the case at a lot of legacies.. that's part of the cost problems these airlines have and why they can't pay their professionally trained pilots and mechanics fair wages..

I'll report back my honest feelings on Skybus after I've worked there for a while, but based on what I've garnered from a few of their happy pilots (many former legacy and some even Jet Blue), it's not at all like FI.com members are trying paint it.

Facts are an oxymoron here with regards to Skybus.

 

[skiandsurf]

I also wonder how you got your facts? you claim their facts, so what is their source? I spoke with several Skybus employees in my research on whether to take this job or not (including FA's) and I got no such feed back. Please enlighten us?

I am assuming that you are a new hire and still in training. It is easy to get caught up in the excitement, but trust me,when you get out on the line, you will be in for a rude awakening. Skybus started operations in May, and they either have had 23 FAs quit since then, or that might have been in just one month alone. As far as pilot attrition, not certain about those numbers, but I know tht at least one has gone to Virgin America. Some have quit to fly in Asia (thanks for the Airbus type rating).

Lets here your tone after a few months on the line.

Good luck to you and your family.

 

[Ezralite]

...OR I can be #75 or so out of 1200+ in the inside 5 years, and be home every night, make $90K average on 15 days of work for 150 hours of duty a month (that's time away from base which is how I see my time being compensated) and $400K in stocks in the next 4 years with millions on the table over 30.

Call a doctor! Someone's OD'ed on the company Kool-Aid!

 

[HA25]

I am assuming that you are a new hire and still in training. It is easy to get caught up in the excitement, but trust me,when you get out on the line, you will be in for a rude awakening. Skybus started operations in May, and they either have had 23 FAs quit since then, or that might have been in just one month alone. As far as pilot attrition, not certain about those numbers, but I know tht at least one has gone to Virgin America. Some have quit to fly in Asia (thanks for the Airbus type rating).

Lets here your tone after a few months on the line.

Good luck to you and your family.

There have been 4 that left since day 1... 2 to VX, one to DAL and one to (he claims) India.

In my class there are 4 military, 1 Jet Blue, two ex RJ checkairman and me (furloughed American, for Citation X driver and former ATR CA). The FA turnover is high at ALL airlines.. it's not something many know what their getting into until their there.. more over, some of the FA's at Skybus are there because their young, in between college and having fun... if you're going to Skybus to make UAL Hag wages, you're barking up the wrong tree. I don't know even if they get any stock options like the pilots, Dispatchers, and Mechanics (as well as management) does.

That said, I agree I'm excited and looking forward to being home a lot more than I used to be at Gemini and prior jobs.. that alone is enough to put up with the crap from people here.

btw.. thanks for the kind wishes.. I think that's a breath of fresh air. It's the closest thing to a Christian attitude (If I can say that) that I've seen since I've been discussing this here.

 

[redbook]

Wake up and smell the roses. We live in a capitalistic economy where the next guy who invents the sugarless/0-fat doughnut that tastes like Crispy Kreme is going to be a billionare. Don't go blaming LCCs for where the airline industry is headed. Most of the Legaices were in trouble before 9/11 with their overzealous expansion and outrageous contracts. Just look at it as simple capitalism, nothing more, nothing less... and when the aviation industry in the next 100 years finally advances in technology, we'll look back at all this hemin' and hawin' about wages and laugh when all the planes are pilotless...

Blue, you must have misunderstood me or meant to quote someone else. I agree with everything you posted. (except the outrageous contracts part) I just don't necessarily think Skybus or any other startup for that matter is a shoe in as the next Southwest.

FMS confuses a well funded start up and recycled "talent" with a guarantee to a good career. I don't see it. They are just another low cost, low profit (if they are lucky) carrier.

 

[Captzaahlie]

As far as the "talent" goes, it seems that Skybus bounced a bunch of pay checks given to new hires recently.....
I heard it just happened to a friend of mine there. I haven't heard the actual details yet from him yet but I'm sure somebody can shed some light on what happened. Anyone?????? I'm starting to feel really good about declining that offer from Skybus. There's not much pay to beginm with but then not having those meager funds when you expect them is unforgivable!

 

[UAL-GSO]

My best friend is a UAL A320 FO in his 3rd year seniority (recalled last year) and he also has to commute, first to IAD and cover 3 different airports, now to Chicago, and if he's lucky soon to LA.. all of which require him to crashpad.

Difference is at Skybus, I can chose to be home every night if I move, with him he's married to his suitcase..

Next..

The difference is after a 48% paycut, your friend is still earning more as an Airbus FO than your Airbus CAPTAINS. Hell, the mobile lounge drivers at IAD are making more than Skybus Captains. You may not care at all, but that bothers a lot of people, myself included. Admittedly, FI.com is more like a peanut gallery than a think tank, but after what so many pilots have gone through in the last few years, how can expect to receive anything other than a visceral, angry response to the whole concept of Skybus? While some people view this as capitalism at its finest, others view it as just one more step in the cheapening of our profession that will only end when we are all making "Wal-Mart" wages.

Maybe your stock options will pay off in the long run - I hope for your sake they do. Having survived two furloughs I would never wish ill on another pilot or his/her family. I think you are in for a long, hard road. God help us all.

 

[HA25]

UAL-GSO, you're not seeing the whole picture. My friend "takes home" as a 4th year FO is less. You're stuck on the $65K base salary figure and not seeing the rest of the picture.

in a 15 day work month, I would fly about an average of 6 hours a day.. for 90 hours.. (how many days does a UAL pilot have to work with your inefficient schedules to fly 90 and credit 105?).

I then would get paid 50% of about 20-25 hours of dead head, which is a far preferreable torture for me that living out of a suitcase at a hotel when my wife and kids are home. Credit hours of 100 to 105, and $85K.. then you factor in the stock options which can be worth about $400,000 in the 4 year vest period, and that works out to $185,000/yr..

YES, I know it's not gauranteed, but nothing in life is.. the COMPANY has to make profits for me to get paid, what about that is such a crime? UAL is making 100's of millions today and what are they giving you? you're having to fight for a raise. I get Equity in my company and as with the CEO and anyone else, if we make money, we all get paid.

 

[Blue Dude]

FMS, it's good that you're enthusiastic about your employer. It wears off fast but it'll carry you through the first few months with a decent attitude. Good on ya. But do NOT make the mistake of confusing stock options with income. They are not remotely equivalent and even if you hit the jackpot, that doesn't make up for extremely poor pay. Even on the off chance that you go public and the stock actually appreciates, you can then unload your shares to supplement your income for a while if you time it right. But make no mistake, the best you can do is create a nest egg or a cushion again bad times. You won't get rich, not even close. In the meantime, you'll still be captaining an Airbus for $80k. (90 hrs of flight time a month is not sustainable. Figure 83 hrs + your 50% of 25 hrs of DH and you get 95 hrs.) Good luck with that.

Your enthusiasm I think may be blinding you to some hard reality. I've been there, done that, and I was one of the original JetBlue guys whose options paid off. No, I'm not rich. Your Kool Aid isn't blue but it's at least as powerful as the stuff they serve here. You need to cut back some.

 

[HA25]

Blue Dude .. Noted. I always have my recall at American to fall back on (if/when) they ever get to it.. Hardball negotiations going over there now, so I'm not going to sit and hold my breath for it.

 

[UAL-GSO]

UAL-GSO, you're not seeing the whole picture. My friend "takes home" as a 4th year FO is less. You're stuck on the $65K base salary figure and not seeing the rest of the picture.

in a 15 day work month, I would fly about an average of 6 hours a day.. for 90 hours.. (how many days does a UAL pilot have to work with your inefficient schedules to fly 90 and credit 105?).

I then would get paid 50% of about 20-25 hours of dead head, which is a far preferreable torture for me that living out of a suitcase at a hotel when my wife and kids are home. Credit hours of 100 to 105, and $85K.. then you factor in the stock options which can be worth about $400,000 in the 4 year vest period, and that works out to $185,000/yr..

YES, I know it's not gauranteed, but nothing in life is.. the COMPANY has to make profits for me to get paid, what about that is such a crime? UAL is making 100's of millions today and what are they giving you? you're having to fight for a raise. I get Equity in my company and as with the CEO and anyone else, if we make money, we all get paid.

My typical schedule consists of four 4-day trips a month which credit about 21-25 hours each. Most days are 1 or 2 legs, sometimes 3 - overnights range anywhere from 12 to 25 hours. This works out to about a 90-94 hour month with an average of 15 days off. Yes, the schedule sucks compared to how it was a few years ago, but just maybe we can get some of that back eventually. Its certainly not as good as my brothers on the heavy side of the airline have it (you lazy 777 and 400 guys flying two 3 days a month - you know who you are , but its livable. As far as the three nights a week in a hotel, I guess it is what it is...

I maybe comparing apples to oranges here, but I'm not a big fan of airline stocks anymore. I would probably offload those asap. If you are familiar with our history you know why.

I don't agree with you about Skybus, but I appreciate your willingness to come on here and discuss it without resorting to name calling and teenager-esque (sp) insults.

Cheers!